Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again
Date	2016-04-22 16:51 +0000
Organization	The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID	<nfdkpu$28h$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <b038d5d5-6595-479c-be2f-38ca32520224@googlegroups.com> <GKydnaP_zZ7muIfKnZ2dnUU7-a2dnZ2d@giganews.com> <acf2609e-bf34-4899-aebc-408e37eb1988@googlegroups.com> <nfddnq$16tk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <19e018c1-fd25-474f-8ba7-79235c374380@googlegroups.com>

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john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Odd.
>A "tree line" is not a one-dimensional thing.
>Every "surface" is a TRANSITION.
>There are holes.
>There are bumps.
>There are discontinuities.
>They are not "2D".

Again, a tree line is a poor example.

Your argument is kind of like claiming that there is no such thing as zero
(0).  If I stick a ruler into something and define measurements that are
inside the something as being a negative distance and measurements outside
as being positive, it would mean that zero (neither negative nor positive)
would be at the boundary.  But you claim that the boundary doesn't exist,
probably because no matter how close one gets to 0, you are always either
slightly positive (outside) or negative (inside) but never exactly zero.
Does that mean that zero (0) does not exist?

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The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 16:05 -0500
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-18 21:21 +0000
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-18 22:32 +0000
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-18 15:57 -0700
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 21:07 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-19 13:05 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:28 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 15:59 -0500
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Boris Mohar <borism_void_@sympatico.ca> - 2016-04-19 06:53 -0400
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 06:34 -0700
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 07:01 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 13:43 -0400
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:49 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 23:10 -0400
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2016-04-20 03:15 +0000
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:05 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 06:15 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:27 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:44 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:40 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:47 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:57 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:08 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:41 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:14 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:52 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 14:22 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 22:16 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 08:55 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 12:14 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:11 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-20 15:40 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:07 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:25 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 02:40 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 11:44 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 04:59 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 11:32 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:35 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 12:56 -0400
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 10:41 -0500
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-21 20:30 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:47 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:20 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:25 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:18 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:26 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:35 -0500
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 10:33 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 13:47 -0400
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:26 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:57 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 12:02 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:18 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-19 19:39 +0000
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:55 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:30 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 08:47 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 18:43 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:54 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 23:21 -0400
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:08 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-19 22:21 +0000
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 15:31 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:57 -0500
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-19 07:36 -0700
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:07 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-21 20:32 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 04:34 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:09 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 06:28 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:32 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:33 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:30 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:28 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 06:41 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:50 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:04 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:09 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:15 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 12:36 -0400
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:22 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 14:43 +0000
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:20 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:42 -0500
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:47 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:25 -0700
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:27 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:39 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 17:00 +0000
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:12 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 17:22 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:32 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:54 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:57 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:27 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:41 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 15:00 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:05 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 13:51 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:40 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:46 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:22 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 21:13 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:08 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-24 23:55 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 21:27 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 01:56 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:58 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:55 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:50 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 04:58 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:02 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:12 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:39 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 14:46 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:48 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 23:39 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:11 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 16:58 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:39 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 04:44 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:01 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:52 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 21:37 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 14:53 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 13:52 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-25 08:56 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-25 16:51 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-25 20:24 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-26 14:41 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:09 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 07:29 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 09:43 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 20:50 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 10:05 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-30 06:31 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:42 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:38 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-04 05:26 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 10:55 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-28 19:39 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 10:35 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-29 08:58 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-30 06:37 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:43 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:38 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-30 06:40 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:44 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 07:02 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:39 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:15 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-03 14:32 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:35 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-04 05:30 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:24 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 11:27 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 13:31 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:12 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 07:48 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-27 15:25 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:28 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:44 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 07:21 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-27 14:41 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:29 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-27 10:41 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:22 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:34 -0700
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:42 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:14 -0700
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:50 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:06 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:16 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 16:51 +0000

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