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Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic?

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On 06/11/2019 11:16, Bart wrote:
> On 05/11/2019 21:34, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 06/11/2019 01:57, Thiago Adams wrote:
>>>
>>> C is dangerous but it is simple. When you know the tool you
>>> know exactly what the compiler is doing and you know from a long
>>> time what is important to do and check. How to deal with the
>>> details.
>>>
>>> C++ is complex and nobody knows happens under the hood. This is why
>>> site that shows the compiler output are so useful nowadays for C++
>>> community.
>>>
>>> C is not perfect and C++ is not so bad. Personally I wish I could
>>> select some features from both and add some extra ones.
>>> This is why I created my own C front end.
>>
>> The complexity in a programming problem is a constant.  You can solve it
>> in the C way with a large number of simple steps, which introduces extra
>> complexity in making sure they all work together. You can solve it with
>> fewer step in a higher level language, which introduces extra complexity
>> to the language.  The overall complexity remains constant.
> 
> A lot of the complexity in C++ appears to me gratuitous.

You say that about a lot of things.

> Even when it isn't, a considerable amount is exposed to the compiler
> (ie. each time it runs, it has to process library source code to
> implement features which in another language are compiled once)

So?

Even the most basic C++ feature, automatic object destruction, greatly 
simplifies and automates resource management which has to be handled 
manually in C.

> In addition that extra complexity is exposed to the user, because when
> they gets some minor thing wrong, it doesn't directly report that thing,
> but reports instead the error that it invokes in the complex library code.

Some, much is built in.  Compilers aren't psychic, if you use a library 
function incorrectly, the compiler will tell you that you have used it 
incorrectly.

> Advocates for the language like to pretend that it is for experts.

I don't, often I'd claim the opposite.  Creating and using a dynamically 
expandable robust array or string in C is much more of an "expert" 
problem than it is in C++.

-- 
Ian.

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Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-04 22:55 -0800
  Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 08:12 +0100
    Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 03:52 -0800
      Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 13:12 +0100
        Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 04:24 -0800
          Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 13:33 +0100
            Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 04:57 -0800
              Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 14:08 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 05:21 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 14:27 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 05:42 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 14:51 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-05 14:49 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 15:53 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-05 15:59 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 17:11 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 09:19 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 07:00 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 16:30 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 15:31 +0100
              Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-06 10:34 +1300
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-05 22:16 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-06 11:34 +1300
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-05 23:12 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-06 12:29 +1300
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 10:17 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 10:56 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 10:02 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 10:43 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 04:56 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 14:05 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-08 21:03 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-10 08:45 +1300
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 16:35 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 12:41 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 04:08 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-29 13:01 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 06:43 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-29 17:31 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 14:31 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-30 13:16 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-12-02 03:31 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-02 23:30 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-01 12:10 +1300
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-11 09:35 -0800
              Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-11-05 22:49 +0000
            Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 05:12 -0800
              Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 14:20 +0100
    Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2019-11-05 16:19 -0800
    Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 00:06 -0800
  Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 03:19 -0800
    Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 22:38 -0800
      Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 04:50 -0800
        Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 05:32 -0800
          Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 05:56 -0800
            Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 14:26 +0000
              Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 09:04 -0800
              Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 22:45 +0100
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 14:35 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-29 23:23 +0000
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 19:08 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 19:12 -0800
                Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-30 10:44 +0000
            Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-09 23:21 -0800
            Re: Is this kosher wrt Generic? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-09 23:22 -0800

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