Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #406299

Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics
Date	2017-01-22 04:25 +0100
Message-ID	<eein1vF4970U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<a1e83bb9-bc89-4195-a096-e756ba5fc901@googlegroups.com> <f577742b-89c4-4259-a06d-ed561e7c2c89@googlegroups.com> <eehuqsFtdnjU1@mid.individual.net> <e4c3807e-147a-4407-a507-e24f48fc9354@googlegroups.com>

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Am 21.01.2017 22:43, schrieb Ed Lake:

>>> Is the train moving or is the train standing still while the train station moves?
>>>
>>> Any intelligent person would KNOW by examining ALL the evidence, that the train was moving and it only MOMENTARILY SEEMED like the train station was moving past the window while the train was standing still.
>>>
>> Any intelligent person would know, that the train station is not at
>> rest, since it sits of the surface of planet Earth.
>>
>
> Any intelligent person would know that, if the question is "Which is moving, the train or the train station?," the answer is "The train."
>
> Yes, in the grander scheme of things, the train station is ALSO moving.  But, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE QUESTION?  Was it to determine which was an illusion and which was real, or was the purpose of the question to create an argument where everyone disagrees with everyone else forever?
>
>> This planet spins around our local star ('Sun') and that around the
>> centre of the galaxy. Also our home galaxy moves about the local cluster
>> and that moves, too.
>>
>> So we could not speak of 'true' rest of anything, since we simply do not
>> know, were we have something not moving.
>>
>> To overcome this problem I suggest a method I call 'subjectivism'.
>>
>> This goes: everybody is at rest, since everybody defines 'at rest' in
>> the way, that this definition allows him to stay at rest.
>>
>> So: everybody IS the centre of the universe, while these universes are
>> slightly different from different perspectives.
>>
>> Hence the train is at rest and the station moves (by definition of the
>> passenger in that particular train).
>>
>> If you sit in the train station you would define otherwise and let the
>> train move.
>>
>> But you cannot decide who is right, since actually both definitions are
>> wrong (because of Earth' rotation and so forth).
>>
>> But since no sufficient definition of 'at rest' exists, it is only to
>> fair to allow equality of individual wrongness.

> I guess it all depends upon your goals.  If your goal is to argue that the universe makes no sense and there's no way to tell what is real and what is not real, then your methodology will certainly accomplish that.
>
> If your goal is to determine what is real and what is just a misunderstanding in the specific situation of a train moving out of a train station, then you need to understand how things can APPEAR to happen illogically, but when all the facts are known, it is all very logical.
>
> My goal is to understand how the universe works (including illusions).
>
> Your goal is apparently to argue that it is not possible to understand how the universe works because everything can be an illusion.


No, I have a similar goal as you have.

And I have also an answer. This is a concept I have developed, that I 
call 'structured spacetime'.

Here is the link to my 'book':
https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6

The idea is, that any observer (like e.g. you or me) defines his own 
context, just by being somewhere.

This context is called 'time domain' and is the realm, where all clocks 
tick at the same rate.

For us humans this is the surface of planet Earth. There we live and 
could move around.

The region above is called 'space'. This is similar to all of us, since 
the direction 'above' is similar, if you stand on the surface of the 
planet (what we all do).

But this doesn't say, this would be all that exists. It's just 
everything we could see from our point of view.

This space is actually the same, that in relativity is called 'past 
light cone'.

If we identify ourselves with the zero-spot and call that 'observer', 
the universe is 'relative' (to ourselves).

So 'universe' denotes actually a picture, which we receive from the 
past, not something real.

The 'real thing' is mainly invisible, since our vision is restricted to 
light and that moves with c and therefore takes time to reach us. We are 
also blind to other frequencies than those from a small range of em-waves.

Other frequencies and other types of waves we cannot see.

But, actually, that's no big deal, since we could also estimate, how 
such invisible realms might look like, supposed we would be able to go 
there or are able to peep into such an invisible universe.

We would expect, that it would be kind of similar to ours, but different 
in the details.

Thread

The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-20 13:22 -0800
  Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 14:12 -0800
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 16:52 -0800
      Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 03:19 -0800
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-23 10:34 -0600
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-01-24 04:20 +1100
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-23 09:32 -0800
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 15:58 -0800
            Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 16:13 -0800
              Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 08:46 -0800
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 16:24 -0800
  Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 16:53 -0800
  Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-21 06:43 +0100
  Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-21 14:12 +0000
  Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-21 08:37 -0800
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-21 08:49 -0800
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-21 09:36 -0800
      Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-21 10:10 -0800
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-21 21:23 +0000
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 06:45 -0800
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 08:24 -0800
            Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-22 17:31 +0000
              Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 09:58 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-23 16:33 +0000
              Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 10:24 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-23 16:36 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-23 09:52 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-24 01:22 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-23 21:23 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-23 21:29 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-24 13:44 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-24 11:52 -0800
            Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 10:54 -0800
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-01-24 16:09 +0000
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-21 21:32 +0100
      Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-21 13:43 -0800
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-22 04:25 +0100
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 08:16 -0800
            Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-22 17:59 +0100
              Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 10:33 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 10:44 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-23 06:34 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 22:06 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-24 06:49 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-23 22:41 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-23 22:45 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-24 23:08 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-24 14:35 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-25 06:34 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-26 06:15 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-29 06:54 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-23 11:57 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-23 12:00 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-23 14:38 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-24 01:27 +0000
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 09:27 -0600
      Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-23 18:13 -0600
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-24 01:39 +0000
        Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-23 23:38 -0800
          Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-24 13:55 +0000
            Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-24 06:34 -0800
              Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-24 23:10 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-24 23:08 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-25 07:35 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-26 11:22 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-26 03:30 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-26 17:15 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-01-27 19:19 -0500
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-28 04:25 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-28 10:53 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-28 03:08 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-28 14:31 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-28 06:55 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-29 03:41 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-28 20:18 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-29 04:03 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-29 07:21 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-28 22:44 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-29 20:25 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-29 12:32 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-29 12:35 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-30 23:57 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-29 22:16 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-30 23:47 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-31 13:01 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-02-01 06:51 +0100
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-01 09:10 +0000
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-01 01:27 -0800
                Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-01 13:23 +0000
  The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-21 16:42 -0800
  Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-01-22 11:04 -0800
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 11:50 -0800
    Re: The Worst Mistake in Theoretical Physics Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-23 06:24 +0100

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