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Groups > alt.atheism > #2173536
| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.atheism, sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Atheism is Witchcraft |
| Date | 2016-09-26 17:56 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <e4s2l4Fer9dU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (9 earlier) <e4p05hFmq73U1@mid.individual.net> <n55fub5m66m41n6ef35gnm31i8u3l5r1e1@4ax.com> <e4qfapF3f02U1@mid.individual.net> <tjfgubhcj8invh2q6pcmlv64juf68qvkpu@4ax.com> <e4rndiFcbc5U1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 26/09/2016 14:44, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 25.09.2016 23:16, schrieb Attila <:
>
>>>
>>> I'm also quite certain, that the book 'Mein Kampf' is actually a
>>> translation into German from an English original.
>>>
>>>
>>> TH
>>
>> You are insane.
>
> Well, maybe (but most likely not). It is irrelevant anyhow, since I can
> prove, that 'My Struggle' (in English) was the original version, which
> was only translated by Hess and Hitler.
>
> This would require to compare a piece of text from both versions.
>
> You can take actually any piece you like, but for reasons of convenience
> I take a fragment, which I have used recently to show this effect in
> another forum.
>
> So I take a piece of text from the English version and the same from the
> German one and compare them for style, linguistic errors, content and so
> forth.
>
> Since I'm German, my first language is German and I can - of course -
> understand German quite well. My English is a little less, but should be
> good enough.
Your English is not good enough for this.
>
>
> The German version is rather twisted and almost impossible to
> understand, while the English version is very clear, easy to understand
> and much better written.
Which is also true of the work of Thomas Mann and many other
German-language writers.
>
> English version
>
> "The Revolution of 1848 was perhaps a struggle of classes everywhere,
> but in Austria it was the commencement of a fresh struggle of
> nationalities.
>
> But the German, either forgetting or not realizing that origin, placed
> himself at the service of the revolutionary movement, and he sealed his
> own fate by so doing. He played his part in arousing the spirit of world
> democracy, which in a short time robbed him of the principles underlying
> his own existence.
>
> The formation of a representative parliamentary body, without previous
> establishment of the principle of a common State language, laid the
> foundation stone of the end of the predominance of the German race. And
> from that moment the State itself was bound for destruction. What then
> followed was the historical evolution of an Empire."
>
>
> German version
>
> "Die Revolution des Jahres 1848 konnte überall Klassenkampf sein, in
> Österreich jedoch war sie schon der Beginn eines neuen Rassenstreites.
>
> Indem damals der Deutsche, diesen Ursprung vergessend oder nicht
> erkennend, sich in den Dienst der revolutionären Erhebung stellte,
> besiegelte er damit sein eigenes Los. Er half mit, den Geist der
> westlichen Demokratie zu erwecken, der in kurzer Zeit ihm die Grundlagen
> der eigenen Existenz entzog.
>
> Mit der Bildung eines parlamentarischen Vertretungskörpers ohne die
> vorhergehende Niederlegung und Festigung einer gemeinsamen Staatssprache
> war der Grundstein zum Ende der Vorherrschaft des Deutschtums in der
> Monarchie gelegt worden. Von diesem Augenblick an war damit aber auch
> der Staat selber verloren. Alles, was nun noch folgte, war nur die
> historische Abwicklung eines Reiches."
>
>
> We have a very funny error in the German version.
>
> The text is about the Austrian Empire. In the German language the
> citizens of Austria are called 'Österreicher' (Austrians).
>
> 'Deutscher' (German) means 'citizen of Germany' only. But meant in the
> English version is 'Speaker of the German language'.
>
> But the German language has no word for 'Speaker of the German
> language', since obviously 'Speaker of the German language' would
> address the speaker himself.
"Der deutschsprachige".
>
> 'Deutscher' does not mean 'person speaking German', but being citizen of
> Germany. This is funny, since the book talks about Austria. Austrian
> citizens are called 'Österreicher'.
Remember the Anschluss? Hitler never really accepted the
differentiation between German and Austrian -- culturally,
linguistically, or politically. He always had visions of a
Grossdeutschland, and this is clearly reflected in his language. This
is why the first bit of German-speaking Europe to be gobbled up and
brought "heim ins Reich" was Austria....
>
> This is similar to 'English', which is also a language and a
> nationality. So a Canadian would not say 'English' about himself, but
> 'Canadian', even if he speaks English.
But until very recently indeed, it was quite common for a Briton to use
"England" and "English" when referring to the whole of the United
Kingdom. In fact, this long-standing habit of conflating England and
Britain is at the root of our current national confusion and search for
a specific English identity distinct from the British one.
>
> The German version confuses the relation between nation and language
> even more, since it introduces the term 'race' in connection to
> 'German'. (the English version uses 'nationalities')
>
> The German version is plain nonsense, since you cannot find out, who has
> done what.
>
> So German citizens cannot understand, how they had a role in the
> internal struggles between nationalities in the KuK Empire or how this
> sealed their fate.
>
> Even stranger is the assumed mechanism, which would be so fatal for 'the
> German'.
>
> The German version says:
>
> ' he helped to awaken the spirit of western democracy, who robbed within
> a short period the foundations of his own existence'.
>
> This not only terrible German, but it is also hard to understand, who
> had robbed what (the spirit his own foundations???).
>
>
> Next: We find a typical English construct in the German version (where
> it makes no sense).
>
> In English you use singular case, if you want to address people. You say
> 'The English', 'The German', 'The Canadian', if you want to address 'sum
> of all the people of England/Germany/Canada'.
>
> But in German you always use the plural form. This is mandatory, since
> the singular 'der Engländer' (for instance) means 'one specific person
> from England'. ('Der' is the specific, singular male form of an article
> in German. So 'der' would address only one male.)
Which is rubbish.
"Der Engländer trinkt gerne Tee" is a perfectly acceptable and correct
use of German to indicate that English people like to drink tea. In
fact, you could not construct this sentence in English using the singular.
Apparently, not only is your English not good enough, but neither is
your German...
>
> So 'Der Deutsche' does NOT mean 'all speakers of German' or 'all
> citizens of Germany', but 'one single specific citizen of Germany'.
>
> This does not include citizens of Austria, since Austrians are called
> 'Österreicher' in German.
.... unless, as I pointed out above, one happens to be a believer in the
political theory of "Grossdeutschland", for whom there is no such
distinction between a German national, an Austrian, a Volga German with
a Russian passport, or a Siebenbürger German with a Rumanian passport.
To them, they are all "German". The believer in Grossdeutschland is not
really concerned with nationalities, and far more with the German "race"
... which may be spread out over many different nations.
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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 04:26 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 16:15 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 11:29 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 09:59 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 03:25 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-18 20:56 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-19 00:37 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 00:48 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:11 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:28 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:37 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:11 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:12 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:57 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 19:14 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 10:37 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 09:28 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-22 00:12 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 03:50 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 18:17 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:19 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:13 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:37 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 14:59 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:35 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 05:55 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 05:13 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 19:20 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 17:16 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 06:44 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-25 22:40 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-26 17:56 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 23:09 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:02 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 20:23 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 10:18 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 03:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:41 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 20:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 04:48 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-28 18:10 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-29 10:07 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-29 08:04 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 06:43 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:06 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 05:08 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-27 20:28 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 01:17 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 23:55 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 15:04 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:06 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 00:03 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:38 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:37 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 15:48 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 23:59 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:50 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 22:30 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 14:58 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:07 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:02 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-27 10:07 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-27 18:10 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:08 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 08:53 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:36 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 17:27 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 10:33 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-20 09:40 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:58 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:05 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:10 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 20:31 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 23:14 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 00:15 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:51 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:14 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-20 23:38 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-20 22:31 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-21 01:20 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 05:43 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 14:27 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 10:09 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 11:07 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:16 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 21:42 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 16:22 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 10:11 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 08:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 23:55 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 17:50 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:37 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:23 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:38 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 06:20 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:28 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:11 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-22 22:25 +0100
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:36 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:18 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:38 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:20 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 09:30 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:17 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:31 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:47 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 18:43 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-24 04:29 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 17:29 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-23 23:20 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-23 16:16 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 15:05 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-24 16:26 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 05:32 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 15:50 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 21:42 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-26 01:05 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 15:30 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-22 18:14 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:36 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:55 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-22 01:16 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 04:02 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:41 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:18 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 11:26 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:51 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:53 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:35 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 17:08 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-24 18:33 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 19:39 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:52 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 09:53 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-23 12:52 +0100
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 21:49 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 09:30 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-20 20:12 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 21:47 +0100
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