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Groups > alt.atheism > #2174061
| Message-ID | <57EAA743.E00@ix.netcom.com> (permalink) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 10:07 -0700 |
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
| Newsgroups | alt.atheism, sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Atheism is Witchcraft |
| References | (10 earlier) <n55fub5m66m41n6ef35gnm31i8u3l5r1e1@4ax.com> <e4qfapF3f02U1@mid.individual.net> <tjfgubhcj8invh2q6pcmlv64juf68qvkpu@4ax.com> <e4rndiFcbc5U1@mid.individual.net> <e4s2l4Fer9dU1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
Alex W. wrote:
>
> On 26/09/2016 14:44, Thomas Heger wrote:
> > Am 25.09.2016 23:16, schrieb Attila <:
> >
>
> >>>
> >>> I'm also quite certain, that the book 'Mein Kampf' is actually a
> >>> translation into German from an English original.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> TH
> >>
> >> You are insane.
> >
> > Well, maybe (but most likely not). It is irrelevant anyhow, since I can
> > prove, that 'My Struggle' (in English) was the original version, which
> > was only translated by Hess and Hitler.
> >
> > This would require to compare a piece of text from both versions.
> >
> > You can take actually any piece you like, but for reasons of convenience
> > I take a fragment, which I have used recently to show this effect in
> > another forum.
> >
> > So I take a piece of text from the English version and the same from the
> > German one and compare them for style, linguistic errors, content and so
> > forth.
> >
> > Since I'm German, my first language is German and I can - of course -
> > understand German quite well. My English is a little less, but should be
> > good enough.
>
> Your English is not good enough for this.
>
> >
> >
> > The German version is rather twisted and almost impossible to
> > understand, while the English version is very clear, easy to understand
> > and much better written.
>
> Which is also true of the work of Thomas Mann and many other
> German-language writers.
>
> >
> > English version
> >
> > "The Revolution of 1848 was perhaps a struggle of classes everywhere,
> > but in Austria it was the commencement of a fresh struggle of
> > nationalities.
> >
> > But the German, either forgetting or not realizing that origin, placed
> > himself at the service of the revolutionary movement, and he sealed his
> > own fate by so doing. He played his part in arousing the spirit of world
> > democracy, which in a short time robbed him of the principles underlying
> > his own existence.
> >
> > The formation of a representative parliamentary body, without previous
> > establishment of the principle of a common State language, laid the
> > foundation stone of the end of the predominance of the German race. And
> > from that moment the State itself was bound for destruction. What then
> > followed was the historical evolution of an Empire."
> >
> >
> > German version
> >
> > "Die Revolution des Jahres 1848 konnte überall Klassenkampf sein, in
> > Österreich jedoch war sie schon der Beginn eines neuen Rassenstreites.
> >
> > Indem damals der Deutsche, diesen Ursprung vergessend oder nicht
> > erkennend, sich in den Dienst der revolutionären Erhebung stellte,
> > besiegelte er damit sein eigenes Los. Er half mit, den Geist der
> > westlichen Demokratie zu erwecken, der in kurzer Zeit ihm die Grundlagen
> > der eigenen Existenz entzog.
> >
> > Mit der Bildung eines parlamentarischen Vertretungskörpers ohne die
> > vorhergehende Niederlegung und Festigung einer gemeinsamen Staatssprache
> > war der Grundstein zum Ende der Vorherrschaft des Deutschtums in der
> > Monarchie gelegt worden. Von diesem Augenblick an war damit aber auch
> > der Staat selber verloren. Alles, was nun noch folgte, war nur die
> > historische Abwicklung eines Reiches."
> >
> >
> > We have a very funny error in the German version.
> >
> > The text is about the Austrian Empire. In the German language the
> > citizens of Austria are called 'Österreicher' (Austrians).
> >
> > 'Deutscher' (German) means 'citizen of Germany' only. But meant in the
> > English version is 'Speaker of the German language'.
> >
> > But the German language has no word for 'Speaker of the German
> > language', since obviously 'Speaker of the German language' would
> > address the speaker himself.
>
> "Der deutschsprachige".
>
> >
> > 'Deutscher' does not mean 'person speaking German', but being citizen of
> > Germany. This is funny, since the book talks about Austria. Austrian
> > citizens are called 'Österreicher'.
>
> Remember the Anschluss? Hitler never really accepted the
> differentiation between German and Austrian -- culturally,
> linguistically, or politically. He always had visions of a
> Grossdeutschland, and this is clearly reflected in his language. This
> is why the first bit of German-speaking Europe to be gobbled up and
> brought "heim ins Reich" was Austria....
>
> >
> > This is similar to 'English', which is also a language and a
> > nationality. So a Canadian would not say 'English' about himself, but
> > 'Canadian', even if he speaks English.
>
> But until very recently indeed, it was quite common for a Briton to use
> "England" and "English" when referring to the whole of the United
> Kingdom. In fact, this long-standing habit of conflating England and
> Britain is at the root of our current national confusion and search for
> a specific English identity distinct from the British one.
>
> >
> > The German version confuses the relation between nation and language
> > even more, since it introduces the term 'race' in connection to
> > 'German'. (the English version uses 'nationalities')
> >
> > The German version is plain nonsense, since you cannot find out, who has
> > done what.
> >
> > So German citizens cannot understand, how they had a role in the
> > internal struggles between nationalities in the KuK Empire or how this
> > sealed their fate.
> >
> > Even stranger is the assumed mechanism, which would be so fatal for 'the
> > German'.
> >
> > The German version says:
> >
> > ' he helped to awaken the spirit of western democracy, who robbed within
> > a short period the foundations of his own existence'.
> >
> > This not only terrible German, but it is also hard to understand, who
> > had robbed what (the spirit his own foundations???).
> >
> >
> > Next: We find a typical English construct in the German version (where
> > it makes no sense).
> >
> > In English you use singular case, if you want to address people. You say
> > 'The English', 'The German', 'The Canadian', if you want to address 'sum
> > of all the people of England/Germany/Canada'.
> >
> > But in German you always use the plural form. This is mandatory, since
> > the singular 'der Engländer' (for instance) means 'one specific person
> > from England'. ('Der' is the specific, singular male form of an article
> > in German. So 'der' would address only one male.)
>
> Which is rubbish.
>
> "Der Engländer trinkt gerne Tee" is a perfectly acceptable and correct
> use of German to indicate that English people like to drink tea. In
> fact, you could not construct this sentence in English using the singular.
>
> Apparently, not only is your English not good enough, but neither is
> your German...
>
> >
> > So 'Der Deutsche' does NOT mean 'all speakers of German' or 'all
> > citizens of Germany', but 'one single specific citizen of Germany'.
> >
> > This does not include citizens of Austria, since Austrians are called
> > 'Österreicher' in German.
>
> .... unless, as I pointed out above, one happens to be a believer in the
> political theory of "Grossdeutschland", for whom there is no such
> distinction between a German national, an Austrian, a Volga German with
> a Russian passport, or a Siebenbürger German with a Rumanian passport.
> To them, they are all "German". The believer in Grossdeutschland is not
> really concerned with nationalities, and far more with the German "race"
> ... which may be spread out over many different nations.
Do you like the TV show Hogan's Heros?
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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 04:26 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 16:15 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 11:29 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 09:59 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 03:25 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-18 20:56 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-19 00:37 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 00:48 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:11 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:28 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:37 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:11 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:12 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:57 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 19:14 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 10:37 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 09:28 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-22 00:12 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 03:50 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 18:17 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:19 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:13 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:37 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 14:59 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:35 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 05:55 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 05:13 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 19:20 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 17:16 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 06:44 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-25 22:40 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-26 17:56 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 23:09 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:02 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 20:23 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 10:18 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 03:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:41 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 20:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 04:48 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-28 18:10 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-29 10:07 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-29 08:04 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 06:43 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:06 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 05:08 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-27 20:28 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 01:17 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 23:55 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 15:04 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:06 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 00:03 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:38 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:37 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 15:48 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 23:59 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:50 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 22:30 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 14:58 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:07 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:02 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-27 10:07 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-27 18:10 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:08 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 08:53 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:36 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 17:27 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 10:33 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-20 09:40 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:58 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:05 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:10 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 20:31 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 23:14 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 00:15 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:51 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:14 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-20 23:38 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-20 22:31 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-21 01:20 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 05:43 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 14:27 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 10:09 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 11:07 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:16 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 21:42 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 16:22 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 10:11 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 08:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 23:55 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 17:50 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:37 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:23 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:38 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 06:20 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:28 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:11 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-22 22:25 +0100
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:36 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:18 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:38 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:20 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 09:30 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:17 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:31 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:47 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 18:43 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-24 04:29 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 17:29 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-23 23:20 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-23 16:16 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 15:05 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-24 16:26 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 05:32 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 15:50 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 21:42 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-26 01:05 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 15:30 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-22 18:14 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:36 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:55 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-22 01:16 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 04:02 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:41 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:18 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 11:26 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:51 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:53 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:35 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 17:08 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-24 18:33 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 19:39 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:52 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 09:53 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-23 12:52 +0100
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 21:49 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 09:30 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-20 20:12 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 21:47 +0100
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