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Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors

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Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 9/18/2016 3:36 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/18/2016 2:37 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>> nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 11:16:05 AM UTC-7,
>>>>> ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/18/2016 3:55 AM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 6:47:02 PM UTC-7, Michael
>>>>>>>> Strickland wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 23:20:18 -0500, Serigo
>>>>>>>>> <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The electrostatic potential gradient between the Earth
>>>>>>>>>> and the Ionosphere is about 100Vm-1 near the surface in
>>>>>>>>>> summer, rising to 300Vm-1 in winter. It is well known
>>>>>>>>>> that electrostatic motors can be driven by the
>>>>>>>>>> atmospheric electric field indefinitely from an
>>>>>>>>>> appropriate antenna and earth connection.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The deal-breaker is the miniscule power available. Kilovolts,
>>>>>>>> but the total amount of current passing from the ionosphere
>>>>>>>> to the surface is less than two thousand amps. The current
>>>>>>>> that through a square meter parallel to Earth's surface is
>>>>>>>> about ten *pico*amps.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_09.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That means you need a large antenna to get even detectable
>>>>>>>> current, let alone enough to do useful work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's doable, but not feasible. How many acres of land can you
>>>>>>>> afford to cover with a copper mesh roof a thousand feet
>>>>>>>> high?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> copper would corrode, but you could use copper coated steel
>>>>>>> wire like the old telegraph lines. that was tough stuff, and
>>>>>>> went a span of 200' (?)
>>>>>
>>>>> So, silver-plate it. ;>)
>>>
>>>>>>> Actually the mesh could be sparce, put up towers 100' tall 100'
>>>>>>> apart and connect the tops with that telegraph wire.  Im
>>>>>>> thinking of the old rule of tower protects at a 45 degree angle
>>>>>>> the stuff below it from lightning strikes.
> 
>>>>> Yup, more or less.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> But you would have to watch the high voltage insulation of the
>>>>>>> wires from the towers, at 100 v/foot, 100 feet => 10,000 volts
>>>>>>> so tripple that, as when a cloud comes over the E Field goes up
>>>>>>> a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also yup. High-voltage low-current stuff is very tricky to work
>>>>> with- the charge keeps leaking off through the air.
>>>
>>>>>> There are lots of towers much higher than that and they do not
>>>>>> see tens of thousands of volts impressed on them.
>>>>>
>>>>> They tend to be conductive, shorting the field. Tall buildings
>>>>> rapidly get coated with conducting films of bio-crud. It doesn't
>>>>> have to be *very* conductive to leak nanoamps.
> 
>>>> Tower as in antenna tower, e.g. KFI Los Angeles, 750 feet.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> the towers distort the E Field as they provide a lower resistance path
>>> to ground, how much ? the info is out there...
>>>
>>> FYI - most towers are grounded, except some AM station towers, many AM
>>> stations actually use phased arrays of towers, the tower sits on large
>>> insulators, and the pattern is steared to different setting at night
>>> (with power lowered) due to AM's much greater range at night due to
>>> probagation, lower ionosphere I think, FCC rules and regs.
> 
>> KFI has a single, insulated tower 750 feet tall.
>>
>> You claim 100 v/foot, which means the KFI tower should see 75,000 volts
>> at the base.
>>
>> This voltage does not exist.
>>
>> Therefor your base assumption is false.
>>
>>
> 
> not my assumption at all, measured fact;
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity
> 
> http://glossary.ametsoc.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electric_field
> 
> etc.
> 
> However, the current is extremly low, in picoamps, so not much power there

And not near anywhere linear with altitude.

For low altitudes, i.e. less than thousands of feet, the gradiant is
more like 1 to 20 volts/foot, a LONG way from your 100 volts/foot.

> which implies that the E field is distorted around the tower,

Nope.

> remember that voltage potential is huge, results in air breakdown, and 
> lightning, huge voltage over 5,000 feet and more.

5,000 feet is a long way from 100 feet.

Lightning comes from clouds, not clear air.


-- 
Jim Pennino

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E Field uses and E Field Motors Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-16 23:20 -0500
  Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 21:46 -0400
    Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-17 22:34 -0500
    Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 01:55 -0700
      Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-18 11:17 -0500
        Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-18 11:31 -0500
        Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-18 18:05 +0000
          Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 11:47 -0700
            Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-18 19:37 +0000
              Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-18 14:59 -0500
                Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-18 20:36 +0000
                Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-18 16:01 -0500
                Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-18 23:33 +0000
                Re: E Field uses and E Field Motors noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 12:20 -0700

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