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Groups > comp.programming.threads > #306
| From | Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.programming.threads |
| Subject | Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence |
| References | (7 earlier) <4DF9EF9A.911CC74F@web.de> <87wrgm9bxk.fsf@justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk> <4DFA18D0.3A413EED@web.de> <87oc1xajr3.fsf@justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk> <4DFA2342.52931D8@web.de> |
| Date | 2011-06-16 16:54 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <87k4clai0h.fsf@justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk> (permalink) |
| Organization | CNNTP |
Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> writes: > Anthony Williams wrote: >> >> Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> writes: >> >> > Anthony Williams wrote: >> > [...] >> >> LOCKed instructions have a total order (7.2.3.8 in my copy of the Intel >> >> 64 and IA-32 SDM Vol 3A), so if you use XCHG for stores (as per my blog >> >> post) then all processors/threads must agree on the order of the writes. >> >> >> >> This is the key to SC --- all SC stores must have a single total order >> >> which is agreed across all threads. >> >> >> >> Why do you think this is not enough? >> > >> > x.store(44, memory_order_relaxed); // or _release >> > r1 = y.load(memory_order_seq_cst); >> > >> > there should be a store-load reordering constraint, just like in >> > >> > x.store(44, memory_order_seq_cst); >> > r1 = y.load(memory_order_relaxed); // or _acquire/_consume >> >> Why? > > Because the above is the same as > > x.store(44, memory_order_relaxed); // or _release > atomic_thread_fence(memory_order_seq_cst); > r1 = y.load(memory_order_relaxed); // or _acquire/_consume No, it isn't. SC fences have very specific rules. This thread started by discussing these rules, and how they don't necessarily do what you might expect. Also, an SC load following a relaxed store does not impose any ordering constraints on that store, and neither does an SC store preceding a relaxed load impose any constraints on the load. All 3 bits of code above are thus different. For reference, 29.3p8 says: [ Note: memory_order_seq_cst ensures sequential consistency only for a program that is free of data races and uses exclusively memory_order_seq_cst operations. Any use of weaker ordering will invalidate this guarantee unless extreme care is used. In particular, memory_order_seq_cst fences ensure a total order only for the fences themselves. Fences cannot, in general, be used to restore sequential consistency for atomic operations with weaker ordering specifications. — end note ] i.e. you cannot replace an SC operation with a relaxed op and a fence and expect it to behave the same. >> Can you give an example that would be broken by the lack of such a >> constraint, > > Any code written with the expectation that > > x.store(44, memory_order_relaxed); // or _release > r1 = y.load(memory_order_seq_cst); > > is the same as > > x.store(44, memory_order_relaxed); // or _release > atomic_thread_fence(memory_order_seq_cst); > r1 = y.load(memory_order_relaxed); // or _acquire/_consume Can you give a specific example of such code? >> and a reference to the FDIS that guarantees the presence of >> that constraint? > > Do you have a reference to FDIS? (*&%*(&^$%&*(^_*(&+)(&*)&^978 > > http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=4DF1EC53.29714FE9@web.de :-) If you can cite N3242, that will do in this case. The only changes to the concurrency section were those from N3278, and I don't think they materially affect this discussion. http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2011/n3242.pdf http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2011/n3278.htm Anthony -- Author of C++ Concurrency in Action http://www.stdthread.co.uk/book/ just::thread C++0x thread library http://www.stdthread.co.uk Just Software Solutions Ltd http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk 15 Carrallack Mews, St Just, Cornwall, TR19 7UL, UK. Company No. 5478976
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questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-13 09:40 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 22:39 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-14 08:27 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 00:21 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 15:48 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-16 05:03 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 08:35 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 12:05 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 11:19 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 13:57 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 13:51 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 16:53 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 16:17 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 17:37 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 08:47 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 16:54 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 09:01 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 17:07 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 13:59 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 14:32 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 08:03 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-17 16:19 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 15:40 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-30 14:26 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-17 15:24 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 03:49 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-18 14:40 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 15:46 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-18 20:27 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 21:31 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 21:37 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-20 15:45 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 20:05 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-18 14:06 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 18:32 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 15:42 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 19:47 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 08:51 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 17:23 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 18:49 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 08:51 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 17:25 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 16:56 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-18 14:28 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 09:54 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-20 15:39 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-22 13:24 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 14:39 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 13:55 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 12:03 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 19:10 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 16:00 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 23:31 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-14 08:32 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 23:05 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 16:44 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 08:34 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-15 02:11 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 15:58 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 08:26 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-16 05:05 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 13:11 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-18 15:42 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 09:27 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-20 15:30 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 15:00 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-21 14:54 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-21 18:37 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-21 15:59 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 09:01 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 15:41 +0100
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-20 23:24 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-22 10:46 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-22 11:19 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-22 11:57 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-27 14:05 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 16:14 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 01:42 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-27 13:24 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 02:25 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-01 12:48 +0200
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-15 01:53 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 02:57 -0700
Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-15 02:06 -0700
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