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Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence

From Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.programming.threads
Subject Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence
References (3 earlier) <itbb7k$uhh$1@node2.news.atman.pl> <87boxyfctc.fsf@justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk> <4DF9D581.E607BEB4@web.de> <8739jaf59n.fsf@justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk> <4DF9EF9A.911CC74F@web.de>
Date 2011-06-16 13:51 +0100
Message-ID <87wrgm9bxk.fsf@justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk> (permalink)
Organization CNNTP

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Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> writes:

> Anthony Williams wrote:
>> 
>> Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> writes:
>> 
>> > Anthony Williams wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > As a side note, I compiled all ops on x86_64, and atomic<int>::load
>> >> > is mfence/load/mfence even for relaxed. I'd need some time to analyse
>> >> > the thing from perspective of other ops implementations in all
>> >> > orderings, and this leads me to the not so subtle question:
>> >>
>> >> Ouch. That is a seriously over-cautious implementation. Atomics should
>> >> not need any fences on x86_64 unless you actually write
>> >> atomic_thread_fence(memory_order_seq_cst)
>> >>
>> >> See my blog entry for the required operations:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk/threading/intel-memory-ordering-and-c++-memory-model.html
>> >>
>> >> The only one that is not a plain MOV is a seq_cst store, which is an
>> >> XCHG.
>> >
>> > I believe that a seq_cst load is not a plain move either...
>> 
>> Why do think it shouldn't be, 
>
> Akin to what Jeffrey Yasskin said on your blog:
>
> http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk/threading/intel-memory-ordering-and-c++-memory-model.html
>
> "Do you happen to have a link to a proof that a plain mov is all that's
> needed for a sequentially-consistent load? I see from the memory model
> documents that the xchg'es all happen in a total order, and that movs
> won't be reordered across xchg, but I'm having trouble getting from
> there to sequential consistency.
>
> by Jeffrey Yasskin at 07:23:51 on Wednesday, 19 May 2010"
>
> Do *you* happen to have a link to a proof?

LOCKed instructions have a total order (7.2.3.8 in my copy of the Intel
64 and IA-32 SDM Vol 3A), so if you use XCHG for stores (as per my blog
post) then all processors/threads must agree on the order of the writes.

This is the key to SC --- all SC stores must have a single total order
which is agreed across all threads.

Why do you think this is not enough?

Anthony
-- 
Author of C++ Concurrency in Action     http://www.stdthread.co.uk/book/
just::thread C++0x thread library             http://www.stdthread.co.uk
Just Software Solutions Ltd       http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk
15 Carrallack Mews, St Just, Cornwall, TR19 7UL, UK. Company No. 5478976

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Thread

questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-13 09:40 -0700
  Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 22:39 +0200
    Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-14 08:27 -0700
      Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 00:21 +0200
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 15:48 -0700
          Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-16 05:03 -0700
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 08:35 +0100
          Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 12:05 +0200
            Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 11:19 +0100
              Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 13:57 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 13:51 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 16:53 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 16:17 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 17:37 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 08:47 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 16:54 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 09:01 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 17:07 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 13:59 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 14:32 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 08:03 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-17 16:19 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 15:40 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-30 14:26 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-17 15:24 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 03:49 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-18 14:40 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 15:46 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-18 20:27 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 21:31 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 21:37 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-20 15:45 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 20:05 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-18 14:06 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 18:32 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 15:42 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 19:47 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 08:51 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 17:23 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 18:49 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 08:51 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 17:25 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 16:56 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-18 14:28 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 09:54 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-20 15:39 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-22 13:24 +0200
          Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 14:39 +0200
            Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 13:55 +0100
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-16 12:03 +0200
          Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 19:10 +0200
  Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 16:00 -0700
    Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 23:31 -0700
      Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-14 08:32 -0700
  Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 23:05 +0100
    Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 16:44 -0700
      Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 08:34 +0100
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-15 02:11 -0700
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 15:58 -0700
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 08:26 +0100
          Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-16 05:05 -0700
            Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 13:11 +0100
              Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-18 15:42 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 09:27 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-20 15:30 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 15:00 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-21 14:54 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-21 18:37 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-21 15:59 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 09:01 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 15:41 +0100
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-20 23:24 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-22 10:46 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-22 11:19 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-22 11:57 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-27 14:05 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 16:14 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 01:42 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-06-27 13:24 +0200
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Anthony Williams <anthony.ajw@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 02:25 -0700
                Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-01 12:48 +0200
      Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Masakuni Oishi <yamasa@bsdhouse.org> - 2011-06-15 01:53 -0700
        Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 02:57 -0700
    Re: questions about memory_order_seq_cst fence "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-15 02:06 -0700

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