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Re: Average swaps per word?

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Average swaps per word?
Date 2016-11-17 12:51 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2016Nov17.135123@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <2016Nov13.155518@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <o0af90$5sf$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> <2016Nov14.183225@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <MPG.3294f76dc332a2cc9896c8@news.virginmedia.com> <o0f0v7$ihp$1@dont-email.me>

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Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> writes:
>On 11/15/2016 10:44, jim wrote:
>> In article <2016Nov14.183225@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>> anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at says...
>>>
>>> Anyway, the general idea that you should check what the "optimizer"
>>> does indicates that what it does is not optimization, but
>>> miscompilation.
>>>
>>> - anton
>>>
>>
>> That is a very good point.
...
>It's not as good as it appears, since for a large class of programming 
>languages, compilation is the act of imprecise translation. Even simple 
>statements such as a=b+1 translated to machine code such as ADD A, B, 1 
>are a form of optimisation, since overflow is unaccounted for in the 
>source language (or at least, the programmer may not realise that it is 
>an issue), and yet overflow is a feature of the target.

That's not optimization, that's just filling the holes in the
specification.  Optimization happens on the program with the holes
filled; i.e., if a=b+1 performs modulo arithmetic (wraparound) without
optimization, then it's an optimization to produce a faster program
that also performs modulo arithmetic, otherwise it's miscompilation.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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Thread

Average swaps per word? trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 22:03 -0800
  Re: Average swaps per word? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-08 20:20 -1000
  Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-09 08:16 +0000
  Re: Average swaps per word? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-09 03:34 -0500
    Re: Average swaps per word? trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 02:53 -0800
      Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 11:50 -0500
        Re: Average swaps per word? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-09 18:37 +0000
          Re: Average swaps per word? Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 16:28 -0800
            Re: Average swaps per word? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-11 17:51 +0000
            Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-12 12:23 +0000
              Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 16:09 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-13 14:55 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-13 20:34 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-13 11:43 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-13 16:58 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-14 16:41 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-14 16:38 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-14 17:42 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-14 16:39 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:40 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 14:10 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:14 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-20 18:16 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-22 10:29 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-22 15:54 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-22 11:50 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-11-24 17:27 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-15 03:55 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-15 17:49 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-16 02:59 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 13:07 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-16 22:57 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-17 03:12 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 12:32 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:02 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 13:23 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-17 08:54 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:54 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-18 12:37 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-14 17:32 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 02:09 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-15 10:44 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 03:12 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-15 13:01 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:51 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-17 14:02 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-17 14:06 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:26 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-18 18:33 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-19 03:32 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 14:29 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 13:51 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-15 13:01 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:46 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 14:16 +0100
              Re: Average swaps per word? Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 11:08 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-14 17:08 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 02:04 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 14:04 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 14:05 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:58 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 15:16 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:41 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-20 18:12 +0100
  Re: Average swaps per word? minforth@arcor.de - 2016-11-09 03:15 -0800
    Re: Average swaps per word? trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 11:22 -0800
    Re: Average swaps per word? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-10 12:20 +1100
      Re: Average swaps per word? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-09 21:04 -1000
      Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-10 03:45 -0600
        Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 11:52 -0500
          Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-10 11:42 -0600
            Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 13:34 -0500
              Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-10 12:54 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 16:33 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-10 15:56 -1000
                Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 21:30 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-11 03:04 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-12 13:25 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-14 03:34 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-11-11 10:41 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 16:45 -0800
      Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-10 11:17 +0000
        Re: Average swaps per word? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 04:34 -0800
          Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-10 12:44 +0000
            Re: Average swaps per word? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 07:27 -0800
              Re: Average swaps per word? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 18:26 +0200
              Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-10 16:05 +0000
        Re: Average swaps per word? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-10 14:55 +0000
          Re: Average swaps per word? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-12 11:36 +1100
            Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 16:56 -0800
            Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 16:14 +0100
          Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-12 12:14 +0000
            Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 16:16 +0100
              Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-13 14:51 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-13 20:41 +0100
      Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-10 14:42 +0000
  Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 15:54 -0800

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