Re: Average swaps per word?

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Average swaps per word?
Date	2016-11-14 17:08 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2016Nov14.180809@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <nvvk2q$nch$3@dont-email.me> <58236c98.176487035@news.eternal-september.org> <81df7e62-3f3e-4571-821c-218f9abee4ed@googlegroups.com> <2016Nov12.132348@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <561b3794-2c9e-4b4a-bf37-1b0b9991ae06@googlegroups.com>

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Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> writes:
>You can get the @ DROP sequence as a result of in-lining.

Any evidence of that occuring to any relevant extent?  No?  Thought so.

Justifying some "optimization" of code that nobody would write except
in cases where the "optimization" is actually miscompilation (i.e.,
the code no longer behaves as intended) with cases resulting from
macro expansion, inlining and similar stuff is a common tactic by
"optimization" apologists.  But I have yet to see any evidence
supporting such claims.

>Maybe Forth needs a standardized compiler barrier, that tells the optimizer to keep its hands off.

An optimization barrier always assumes a certain model of
optimization, and code using such a barrier will likely be not
portable to compilers with more aggressive optimizers.  Specifying the
semantics of code is a more lasting approach.  I.e., if we really
wanted to allow optimizing @ DROP, we could have RAM@ and PORT@, with
PORT@ DROP not being optimizable.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

Thread

Average swaps per word? trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 22:03 -0800
  Re: Average swaps per word? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-08 20:20 -1000
  Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-09 08:16 +0000
  Re: Average swaps per word? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-09 03:34 -0500
    Re: Average swaps per word? trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 02:53 -0800
      Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 11:50 -0500
        Re: Average swaps per word? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-09 18:37 +0000
          Re: Average swaps per word? Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 16:28 -0800
            Re: Average swaps per word? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-11 17:51 +0000
            Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-12 12:23 +0000
              Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 16:09 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-13 14:55 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-13 20:34 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-13 11:43 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-13 16:58 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-14 16:41 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-14 16:38 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-14 17:42 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-14 16:39 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:40 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 14:10 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:14 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-20 18:16 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-22 10:29 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-22 15:54 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-22 11:50 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-11-24 17:27 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-15 03:55 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-15 17:49 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-16 02:59 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 13:07 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-16 22:57 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-17 03:12 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 12:32 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:02 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 13:23 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-17 08:54 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:54 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-18 12:37 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-14 17:32 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 02:09 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-15 10:44 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 03:12 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-15 13:01 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:51 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-17 14:02 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-17 14:06 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:26 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-18 18:33 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-19 03:32 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 14:29 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 13:51 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-15 13:01 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:46 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 14:16 +0100
              Re: Average swaps per word? Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 11:08 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-14 17:08 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 02:04 -0800
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 14:04 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 14:05 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-17 12:58 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-17 15:16 +0100
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-18 15:41 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-20 18:12 +0100
  Re: Average swaps per word? minforth@arcor.de - 2016-11-09 03:15 -0800
    Re: Average swaps per word? trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 11:22 -0800
    Re: Average swaps per word? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-10 12:20 +1100
      Re: Average swaps per word? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-09 21:04 -1000
      Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-10 03:45 -0600
        Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 11:52 -0500
          Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-10 11:42 -0600
            Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 13:34 -0500
              Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-10 12:54 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 16:33 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-10 15:56 -1000
                Re: Average swaps per word? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 21:30 -0500
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-11 03:04 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-12 13:25 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-14 03:34 -0600
                Re: Average swaps per word? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-11-11 10:41 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 16:45 -0800
      Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-10 11:17 +0000
        Re: Average swaps per word? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 04:34 -0800
          Re: Average swaps per word? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-10 12:44 +0000
            Re: Average swaps per word? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 07:27 -0800
              Re: Average swaps per word? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 18:26 +0200
              Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-10 16:05 +0000
        Re: Average swaps per word? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-10 14:55 +0000
          Re: Average swaps per word? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-12 11:36 +1100
            Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 16:56 -0800
            Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 16:14 +0100
          Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-12 12:14 +0000
            Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 16:16 +0100
              Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-13 14:51 +0000
                Re: Average swaps per word? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-13 20:41 +0100
      Re: Average swaps per word? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-10 14:42 +0000
  Re: Average swaps per word? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 15:54 -0800

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