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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #27342
| Date | 2014-01-18 08:58 +0000 |
|---|---|
| From | lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> |
| Organization | Trollbusters 3 |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? |
| References | (1 earlier) <99qdnVXamdWBRErPnZ2dnUVZ8mOdnZ2d@bt.com> <lbblnm$o3j$1@dont-email.me> <u6qdnds8oLoA7ETPnZ2dnUVZ8mGdnZ2d@bt.com> <lbc882$g2n$1@dont-email.me> <tsqCu.257153$m_6.246817@fx25.iad> |
| Message-ID | <0aWdncIb3KbM30fPnZ2dnUVZ8qudnZ2d@bt.com> (permalink) |
On 18/01/14 07:56, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > On 01/17/2014 05:44 PM, Joshua Cranmer đ§ wrote: >> On 1/17/2014 12:08 PM, lipska the kat wrote: >>> On 17/01/14 16:28, Joshua Cranmer đ§ wrote: >>>> On 1/16/2014 7:05 AM, lipska the kat wrote: >>>>> I can't think of a language that isn't ultimately implemented in C. >>>> >>>> Zero-cost exception handling cannot be expressed in (ISO) C code >>>> (or, at >>>> the very least, not in a way that a C compiler will faithfully compile >>>> it--in the situation that would arise, clang and gcc are both extremely >>>> happy to mangle the code, even at -O0). Well, MSVC has __try/__catch, >>>> but that's not ISO C. >>> >>> I've been reading up on this Zero-cost exception handling thing. >>> It seems that while there may be no overhead for exception handlers if >>> no exception is raised, the performance of exception propagation is >>> poor. Maybe it should be called 'Zero-cost exception handling if no >>> exception occurs'. It's not impossible though is it, it's a compiler >>> thing so it *could* be implemented ... if the compiler supported it. >>> It's not a fundamental shortcoming of the language per-se is it? >> >> Zero-cost exception handling simply cannot be expressed in ISO C code. >> In essence, it requires building external unwind tables, which can be >> thought of as "if an exception reaches between these two points, jump to >> that location instead"--which requires some notion of computed goto >> (more specifically, the ability to take the address of a label). gcc's >> computed goto extension is not formally specified, but experimentation >> with both clang and gcc indicate that taking the address of a label and >> not jumping to it [in the same function] is insufficient to preserve the >> existence of the code after that block, even when compiling at -O0. >> >> In general, C strongly believes that there exists only a single entry >> point to every function; constructs where this notion doesn't really >> hold true (exceptions, generators, coroutines, continuations) can't be >> effectively expressed in C code. >> > [SNIP] > > With all due respect, Joshua. :-) Let's not get *too* deep here. I get > that you're a computer scientist, but at this point I think we are > totally not helping with answering the original question. :-) Well possibly but it's slightly more interesting than some obscure discussion on Nordic umlauts or whatever that we recently had to endure in this group :-) -- Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer, treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net
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What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-16 04:35 -0800
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-16 13:05 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-16 07:05 -0800
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-16 16:11 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-16 20:39 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-16 16:18 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-16 21:50 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-16 17:27 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Joshua Cranmer đ§ <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-01-17 10:28 -0600
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-17 18:08 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Joshua Cranmer đ§ <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-01-17 15:44 -0600
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 02:09 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-17 22:15 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 17:21 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 12:41 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 19:46 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-18 03:56 -0400
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-18 08:58 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 02:02 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-17 22:17 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 17:36 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-28 10:13 -0400
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-28 16:21 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-28 22:09 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 20:02 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-16 11:30 -0600
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-16 23:27 +0100
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-17 01:08 -0400
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-01-17 01:43 -0800
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-17 01:53 -0800
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-17 11:03 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-17 11:27 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 19:49 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-19 12:35 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-19 17:05 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-19 23:44 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-19 19:45 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 19:55 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 20:04 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 15:38 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 18:30 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 19:43 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:16 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:30 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 20:43 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-21 00:55 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-20 21:41 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 17:10 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-21 08:59 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-21 04:03 -0600
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-21 11:53 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:09 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:05 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-20 21:39 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 17:21 -0500
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:17 +0000
Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 22:34 -0500
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