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Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at?

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And I thought I would get some answer like "why are you posting this to comp.lang.java.programmer, you moron?". Now I got plenty of useful replies :-).

"As lipska says, forget IDEs - use your favourite editor and run 'make'
from the command line or from the editor if it offers that facility. "

This will get me a hard time as I'm used very much to IDEs. JetBrains announced they are working on an IDE for C/C++. That would be something I would usually opt for. But I'll try ;-). I like C with XCode on Mac, because Apple's C compiler has support for closures (yeah, I'm a spoiled child that can't live without all the comfort...).  
  
"Among other paths I walked the C => C++ => Java route but I do not think
that C++ is worth the investment any more if you intend to also live in
the (J)VM world"

Without several years of development experience in C++ you simply won't get a C++ job. So, I think C makes sense as a complement to Java or Objective-C. 

"Another couple of languages I am glad I spent a lot of time with is
Prolog, Clean and Miranda (the latter two are in some way predecessors
of Haskell)."

I started with Scala some weeks ago. I don't really like it, because it is a bit overloaded with too many features for my taste. But Scala + Akka is very strong on concurrency + multi-threading and this is what I like to do and where I already gained some experience. But it is another JVM language and I wanted to have a look into systems programming.

"C++ takes years to learn, period. People who know it well enough to use
it safely are people who could be on C++ specifications committees, or
already are. I'm not saying C++ is bad, per se, but unless you have a
great deal of time, I wouldn't go down this road."

I developed my thesis work in C++ and that was about 15 years ago or something. Yeah, C++ is too effortful. You can't learn it in your spare time. Maybe I do basically C, but make use of some features of C++ to make C development easier. I'm thinking of an approach of writing C in a style like in Go. With the use of a C++ compiler that should be possible.

Thanks for all the book hints. I have "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline already. Thinking of buying "Understanding and Using C Pointers" from O'Reilly somewhen later, because pointers is something where I need to learn a lot (especially with regard to C). But I'll have a look at all the other books mentioned as well.

Regards, Oliver

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What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-16 04:35 -0800
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-16 13:05 +0000
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-16 07:05 -0800
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-16 16:11 +0000
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-16 20:39 +0000
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-16 16:18 -0500
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-16 21:50 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-16 17:27 -0500
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-01-17 10:28 -0600
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-17 18:08 +0000
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-01-17 15:44 -0600
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 02:09 +0000
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-17 22:15 -0500
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 17:21 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 12:41 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 19:46 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-18 03:56 -0400
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-18 08:58 +0000
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 02:02 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-17 22:17 -0500
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 17:36 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-28 10:13 -0400
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-28 16:21 +0000
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-28 22:09 +0000
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 20:02 -0500
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-16 11:30 -0600
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-16 23:27 +0100
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-17 01:08 -0400
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-01-17 01:43 -0800
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-17 01:53 -0800
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-17 11:03 -0500
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-17 11:27 -0500
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 19:49 -0500
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-19 12:35 +0000
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-19 17:05 -0500
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-19 23:44 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-19 19:45 -0500
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 19:55 -0500
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 20:04 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 15:38 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 18:30 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 19:43 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:16 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:30 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 20:43 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-21 00:55 -0500
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-20 21:41 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 17:10 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-21 08:59 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-21 04:03 -0600
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-21 11:53 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:09 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:05 +0000
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-20 21:39 +0000
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 17:21 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:17 +0000
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 22:34 -0500

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