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Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at?

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On 1/17/2014 11:28 AM, Joshua Cranmer 🐧 wrote:
> On 1/16/2014 7:05 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> I can't think of a language that isn't ultimately implemented in C.
>
> Zero-cost exception handling cannot be expressed in (ISO) C code (or, at
> the very least, not in a way that a C compiler will faithfully compile
> it--in the situation that would arise, clang and gcc are both extremely
> happy to mangle the code, even at -O0). Well, MSVC has __try/__catch,
> but that's not ISO C.
>
>> If you think about it, any language *other* than C is simply a high(er)
>> level interface to C (ignoring assembler of course). Even C compilers
>> are written in C (go figure :-)
>
> Clang is written in C++. GCC is written in C++ as of 4.8. MSVC is
> written in C++. I'm pretty sure icc is also written in C++. Open64
> appears to be in C++ as well. Which means that all the C compilers which
> find major use are written in C++, not C.

And they would probably benefit from being written in something easier
like Java.

:-)

>> Unless there is a revolution in the development of software development
>> languages I can't see C becoming obsolete any time soon. If you spend
>> time with C it will help you with almost any other language you can
>> think of. It's a no-brainer AFAICS. Use Java to earn good money, learn C
>> as an essential addition to your skill set.
>
> I have reached the point where I find C unusable as a programming
> language. While it lets you bury yourself in details and change things
> to your hearts content, it also requires that you bury yourself in
> details--you can't convert C code into partially-managed memory like you
> can in C++ with std::shared_ptr or std::unique_ptr. Also, C lacks a
> usable standard library (no hash maps, no auto-growing arrays). And I
> can go on and on.

But if you really need those high level features wouldn't there be
even better alternatives to C than C++?

To me:
   need for high level powerful language => Java or a step further Scala
   need for low level (rare but happens) => C is good

Well - I guess there is one more:
   need for high level language integratable with legacy C => C++

Arne

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What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-16 04:35 -0800
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-16 13:05 +0000
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-16 07:05 -0800
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-16 16:11 +0000
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-16 20:39 +0000
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-16 16:18 -0500
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-16 21:50 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-16 17:27 -0500
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-01-17 10:28 -0600
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-17 18:08 +0000
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-01-17 15:44 -0600
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 02:09 +0000
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-17 22:15 -0500
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 17:21 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 12:41 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 19:46 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-18 03:56 -0400
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-18 08:58 +0000
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 02:02 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-17 22:17 -0500
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-18 17:36 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-28 10:13 -0400
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-28 16:21 +0000
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-28 22:09 +0000
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 20:02 -0500
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-16 11:30 -0600
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-16 23:27 +0100
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-17 01:08 -0400
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-01-17 01:43 -0800
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2014-01-17 01:53 -0800
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-17 11:03 -0500
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-17 11:27 -0500
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-18 19:49 -0500
    Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-19 12:35 +0000
      Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-19 17:05 -0500
        Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-19 23:44 +0000
          Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-19 19:45 -0500
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 19:55 -0500
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 20:04 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 15:38 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 18:30 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 19:43 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:16 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:30 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 20:43 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-21 00:55 -0500
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-20 21:41 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 17:10 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-21 08:59 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-21 04:03 -0600
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-21 11:53 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:09 +0000
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:05 +0000
            Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-20 21:39 +0000
              Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-20 17:21 -0500
                Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-21 22:17 +0000
  Re: What's the best non-JVM native language to look at? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 22:34 -0500

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