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Groups > sci.physics > #552385 > unrolled thread

Gravitational waves and skeptics

Started byOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
First post2016-02-11 17:08 -0600
Last post2016-02-22 15:12 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 173 — 17 participants

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Contents

  Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 17:08 -0600
    Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 15:28 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:59 -0500
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 07:16 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:40 -0500
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:01 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:44 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 09:49 -0600
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 08:01 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 12:47 -0500
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 12:46 -0500
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:35 -0600
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 00:34 -0500
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:27 -0600
                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 05:59 -0800
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:30 -0800
                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 10:23 -0600
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 22:46 -0800
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Dingus Dirtbag McGee" <insavad@example.com> - 2016-02-16 22:49 -0800
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:16 -0800
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:29 -0800
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:59 -0800
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 04:07 -0800
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 05:05 -0800
                                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 06:26 -0800
                                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:11 -0500
                                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:19 -0500
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:05 -0500
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:03 -0600
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:15 -0800
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:05 -0500
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 13:35 -0500
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 12:57 -0800
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-02-21 19:40 -0500
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 14:28 -0800
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 08:52 -0500
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 05:58 -0800
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 06:41 -0800
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 14:37 -0500
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-23 16:55 -0500
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:29 -0500
                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:40 -0500
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:49 -0600
                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 16:16 -0500
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 23:02 -0600
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 01:25 -0500
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 17:43 -0500
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:11 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:17 -0500
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 07:17 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 10:38 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:58 -0500
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:14 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:40 -0500
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:03 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:50 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 10:04 -0600
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 13:01 -0500
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:37 -0600
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 00:36 -0500
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:28 -0600
                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:42 -0500
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:52 -0600
                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 16:13 -0500
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 23:00 -0600
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 01:22 -0500
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 08:53 -0600
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 07:07 -0800
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 15:44 -0500
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:16 -0500
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 15:32 -0600
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 14:34 -0800
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 19:50 -0500
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 19:12 -0500
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 17:08 -0800
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 01:13 -0500
                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:03 -0800
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:04 -0500
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:16 -0600
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:24 -0800
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 12:02 -0600
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 12:31 -0800
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:14 -0500
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 02:43 -0800
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 04:53 -0800
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:09 -0500
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 15:58 -0500
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:30 -0500
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:30 -0600
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 19:28 -0500
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 07:39 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:53 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-12 04:33 +0000
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-11 22:02 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 23:02 -0500
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 11:34 -0500
          Re: Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:55 -0500
            Better art refines prior art. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 12:19 -0800
              Re: Better art refines prior art. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:29 -0600
                Re: Better art refines prior art. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:37 -0600
                  Re: Better art refines prior art. "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:47 -0800
                Re: Better art refines prior art. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 12:56 -0800
                Re: Better art refines prior art. "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 04:50 -0800
              Re: Better art refines prior art. "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:42 -0800
            Re: Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-02-12 13:43 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-02-12 13:33 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:49 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:29 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 08:27 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 11:37 -0500
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 11:05 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 13:06 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 11:11 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:29 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 13:56 -0600
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 12:51 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 15:00 -0600
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 13:48 -0800
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-13 14:02 -0500
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-13 18:16 -0800
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:40 -0600
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 20:01 -0800
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 22:39 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:38 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:56 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 23:05 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:31 -0500
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-13 11:56 -0500
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:32 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:27 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 22:50 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:24 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:24 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:18 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-02-12 10:54 +0000
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 07:25 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-02-13 11:47 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 04:54 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 08:30 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:31 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 00:27 -0500
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:21 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:51 -0500
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:54 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 16:19 -0500
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-14 07:26 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:50 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-17 06:45 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:12 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-18 06:38 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:23 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-20 11:42 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:28 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-20 11:45 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 13:49 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 10:34 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-18 06:05 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 06:20 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:24 -0500
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:20 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-19 00:58 +0000
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-21 06:04 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-22 02:59 +0000
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-22 07:14 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:39 -0600
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-23 05:47 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-22 17:14 +0000
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:43 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics xxein1@att.net - 2016-02-21 23:34 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-22 07:32 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:41 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-23 05:48 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics xxein1@att.net - 2016-02-22 15:12 -0800

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#553946

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 12:02 -0600
Message-ID<na2cka$1hdq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#553929
On 2/17/2016 11:24 AM, HVAC wrote:
>
> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. No
> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
> scientifically."
> -------------
>
> One wonders what caused BJ to turn away from science and embrace the world of superstition and the paranormal.
>
> It must have been quite traumatic.
>
> I wonder if perhaps he was molested as a child and somehow associated that anal raping with the sciences.
>
> BJ, you should talk with a mental health specialist. This anger is not good for you bro
>

I don't believe Ben really believes his research into ESP is being 
suppressed by dictators. He KNOWS he is free to work on anything he 
wants to work on.

What rankles him is that he can't get EXTERNAL SUPPORT for that work. He 
can't be employed to research ESP. He can't get grant money to research 
ESP. He can't publish work on ESP in the journals he wants to publish 
in, for the visibility he wants.

What I believe he is really upset about is that he is excluded from the 
benefits of COMMUNITY (such as salary, funded research, publication 
visibility) that more mainstream physicists enjoy.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#554021

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 12:31 -0800
Message-ID<2afafd30-c6d6-4766-98ab-257776d4f0c6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#553946
I don't believe Ben really believes his research into ESP is being 
suppressed by dictators. He KNOWS he is free to work on anything he 
wants to work on. 

What rankles him is that he can't get EXTERNAL SUPPORT for that work. He 
can't be employed to research ESP. He can't get grant money to research 
ESP. He can't publish work on ESP in the journals he wants to publish 
in, for the visibility he wants. 

What I believe he is really upset about is that he is excluded from the 
benefits of COMMUNITY (such as salary, funded research, publication 
visibility) that more mainstream physicists enjoy. 
-----------

But why do kooks, in this case BJ, never just hold *one* kooky belief?
BJ has a host of paranormal beliefs. And I'm sure there are others that no one here knows about. If a kook only held one kooky belief, say ESP, I would think they could be easily dissuaded from this belief with logic and test results. That makes sense, right? But all kooks including BJ have so many odd and paranormal things they believe in, it begins to form a pattern. The non-critical thinking. The missteps in logic. The intentional closing of one's eyes to evidence. All this is far more than a difference of opinion. It is a dismissal of science. It is the embracing of superstition. It's hard for me to believe that BJ has ever been associated with the world of science. The way he thinks and the way he forms his opinions are the opposite of science

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#554035

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 16:14 -0500
Message-ID<kp5xy.107084$yJ4.101266@fx44.iad>
In reply to#554021
On 02/17/2016 03:31 PM, HVAC wrote:
>
> I don't believe Ben really believes his research into ESP is being
> suppressed by dictators. He KNOWS he is free to work on anything he
> wants to work on.
>
> What rankles him is that he can't get EXTERNAL SUPPORT for that work.
> He can't be employed to research ESP. He can't get grant money to
> research ESP. He can't publish work on ESP in the journals he wants
> to publish in, for the visibility he wants.
>
> What I believe he is really upset about is that he is excluded from
> the benefits of COMMUNITY (such as salary, funded research,
> publication visibility) that more mainstream physicists enjoy.
> -----------
>
> But why do kooks, in this case BJ, never just hold *one* kooky
> belief? BJ has a host of paranormal beliefs. And I'm sure there are
> others that no one here knows about. If a kook only held one kooky
> belief, say ESP, I would think they could be easily dissuaded from
> this belief with logic and test results. That makes sense, right? But
> all kooks including BJ have so many odd and paranormal things they
> believe in, it begins to form a pattern. The non-critical thinking.
> The missteps in logic. The intentional closing of one's eyes to
> evidence. All this is far more than a difference of opinion. It is a
> dismissal of science. It is the embracing of superstition. It's hard
> for me to believe that BJ has ever been associated with the world of
> science. The way he thinks and the way he forms his opinions are the
> opposite of science
>
Lies.

Everyone please note that I have given HVAC numerous references to 
government work done in ESP costing millions, but he has steadfastly 
refused to even acknowledge that it exists. And then like every Lib, he 
accuses everyone else of refusing to look at evidence. Such is his 
irrational fantasy world. (He has a short man Napoleon complex and 
thinks he's "moderator" of this unmoderated group.

Interesting research though. He seems to be trying to determine if there 
is anyone online ignorant enough to fall for his nonsense. I'm betting 
there are. I think Odd is in love now.

===

I have given numerous references to the scientific work done on ESP, 
Remote viewing and the like with many excellent books easily available 
on Amazon.com. HVAC prefers not to read anything so as to remain 
ignorant. I have referenced a number of Nobel prize-winning scientists 
who have found significant ESP evidence. HVAC who thinks he is the 
“moderator” of an unmoderated newsgroup thinks he's smarter than them. I 
have referenced government projects costing millions verifying ESP 
effects. In spite of FOIA proof, HVAC acts as if they do not exist. I 
have listed PROOF BEYOND DOUBT of a government cover-up of UFO 
information from the government's own documents. HVAC admits nothing.

So everybody, the ONLY thing that anonymous HVAC (whatever that is) has 
going for "him" is the assertion that this or that person "believes" in 
Ghosts, ESP, or the like. That's it. He has ONLY his "superpowers" to 
tell you what another person has in their mind!  No evidence, no records 
of posts, nada. Of course such “superpowers” would be ESP, would they 
not? Science is only about evidence. Religion and pseudoscience is about 
"belief".  HVAC has no science education and knows no science.

So the only question YOU must ask is are you interested in science or 
strategic writer fantasy. Make your choice.

These paragraphs will be repeated every time HVAC accuses someone of 
"believing" in something.

PS. My “superpowers” tell me HVAC is Gay and needs to come out.


-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#555434

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-22 02:43 -0800
Message-ID<4ba631be-2dca-413e-876e-b7d3ec09e913@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#554021
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 10:3 are others that no one here knows about. If a kook only held one kooky belief, say ESP, I would think they could be easily dissuaded from this belief with logic and test results. That makes sense, right? But all kooks including BJ have so many odd and paranormal things they believe in, it begins to form a pattern. The non-critical thinking. The missteps in logic. The intentional closing of one's eyes to evidence. All this is far more than a difference of opinion. It is a dismissal of science. It is the embracing of superstition. It's hard for me to believe that BJ has ever been associated with the world of science. The way he thinks and the way he forms his opinions are the opposite of science
========================
and who on earth 
nominated a pig anonymous dreck like you
to be a patron  speaker in behalf science ??

you can better represent Don Carleone !!
Y.P
===============================

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#555449

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-22 04:53 -0800
Message-ID<8de4bb16-bb97-45ef-b255-2cc1e33e4587@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#555434
Wally said
"On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:57:13 -0800 (PST), john wrote: 

>It's called a blind alley. 

Please quote what you are replying to; and include an attribution. 

See above for examples of both. "

I can't get my iPhone to do attributions, sorry.

The whole "Standard Model" is a blind alley.
Allowing "point particles" in the first place,
full knowing that they cannot exist, gets you
an automatic "F".

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#554034

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 16:09 -0500
Message-ID<yk5xy.35075$JH2.25198@fx41.iad>
In reply to#553946
On 02/17/2016 01:02 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/17/2016 11:24 AM, HVAC wrote:
>>
>> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. No
>> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
>> scientifically."
>> -------------
>>
>> One wonders what caused BJ to turn away from science and embrace the
>> world of superstition and the paranormal.
>>
>> It must have been quite traumatic.
>>
>> I wonder if perhaps he was molested as a child and somehow associated
>> that anal raping with the sciences.
>>
>> BJ, you should talk with a mental health specialist. This anger is not
>> good for you bro
>>
>
> I don't believe Ben really believes his research into ESP is being
> suppressed by dictators. He KNOWS he is free to work on anything he
> wants to work on.

So you are stooopid enough to actually believe the shit HVAC makes up? 
What in hell is "my" research into ESP. I've only directed HVAC (and 
you) to the myriad references on the excellent work at SRI (overlord 
institute) on remote viewing. Amazon is full of it. (Heh! watch HVAC 
take THAT one out of context!) It was millions of dollars with extreme 
scientific protocols and with significant results. If you want to 
pretent otherwise with HVAC then just keep refusing to read the 
references by the people who were there. That's what HVAC does. 
Ignorance is so much more "happy" than knowing.

> What rankles him is that he can't get EXTERNAL SUPPORT for that work. He
> can't be employed to research ESP. He can't get grant money to research
> ESP. He can't publish work on ESP in the journals he wants to publish
> in, for the visibility he wants.

So you and HVAC now share the same fantasy? Do you share the same 
gummint office too?  Wouldn't surprise me none. What makes you think I 
want to do ANY ESP research? If I wanted to do that I'd be doing it. How 
much money does it take to "remote view"?


> What I believe he is really upset about is that he is excluded from the
> benefits of COMMUNITY (such as salary, funded research, publication
> visibility) that more mainstream physicists enjoy.

What I'm really upset about is ignorant Libs like you, Warmley, and HVAC 
pretending to know science and using the public respect for sciece as a 
political football for your agendas. The blatant dishonesty and lies 
(look at yours above) are the worst. There is no greater sin in science 
that faked results and mouse painting.

If we are to have censorship, you three would be my first pick.

====


I have given numerous references to the scientific work done on ESP, 
Remote viewing and the like with many excellent books easily available 
on Amazon.com. HVAC prefers not to read anything so as to remain 
ignorant. I have referenced a number of Nobel prize-winning scientists 
who have found significant ESP evidence. HVAC who thinks he is the 
“moderator” of an unmoderated newsgroup thinks he's smarter than them. I 
have referenced government projects costing millions verifying ESP 
effects. In spite of FOIA proof, HVAC acts as if they do not exist. I 
have listed PROOF BEYOND DOUBT of a government cover-up of UFO 
information from the government's own documents. HVAC admits nothing.

So everybody, the ONLY thing that anonymous HVAC (whatever that is) has 
going for "him" is the assertion that this or that person "believes" in 
Ghosts, ESP, or the like. That's it. He has ONLY his "superpowers" to 
tell you what another person has in their mind!  No evidence, no records 
of posts, nada. Of course such “superpowers” would be ESP, would they 
not? Science is only about evidence. Religion and pseudoscience is about 
"belief".  HVAC has no science education and knows no science.

So the only question YOU must ask is are you interested in science or 
strategic writer fantasy. Make your choice.

These paragraphs will be repeated every time HVAC accuses someone of 
"believing" in something.

PS. My “superpowers” tell me HVAC is Gay and needs to come out.

And I'm not angry (HVAC terms that "mad")

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#554033

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 15:58 -0500
Message-ID<P95xy.107083$yJ4.70336@fx44.iad>
In reply to#553929
On 02/17/2016 12:24 PM, HVAC wrote:
>
> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. No
> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
> scientifically."
> -------------
>
> One wonders what caused BJ to turn away from science and embrace the world of superstition and the paranormal.
>
> It must have been quite traumatic.
>
> I wonder if perhaps he was molested as a child and somehow associated that anal raping with the sciences.
>
> BJ, you should talk with a mental health specialist. This anger is not good for you bro
>
What imagination! I can see how you landed the job of strategic writer. 
How's the great American Novel coming?

We are pros, H&V. Huff and puff all you want but we don't get angry. We 
only get "effective". You do know your writing is totally irrational, 
right? How many rejection notices you have so far for your screed? Does 
that make you angry? How do you feel about that?

The beauty of the INTERNET is you never get a rejection notice. It all 
gets "published". A few of us even respond (until we get bored with your 
nonsense)

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#554041

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 16:30 -0500
Message-ID<cE5xy.70479$xs7.24475@fx14.iad>
In reply to#553869
On 02/17/2016 10:16 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/17/2016 9:04 AM, benj wrote:
>> What I hate are ignorant dishonest wordmeisters like yourself who know
>> know science, have no science education yet want to become
>> self-appointed dictators of everything done in science. That's why I
>> hate everything you represent, not only in science.
>
> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. No
> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
> scientifically."
>
> But if you then want to publish a paper on your work, then you do not
> have a native freedom to select your audience. You can't say, "It is my
> inborn right to have the readers of Physical Review A see the results of
> my work."
>
> If someone writes a novel and submits it to Simon & Schuster, and the
> editor there declines to publish the novel, that is not the act of a
> dictator.

Yes he is. Especially when the refusal covers all novels of a certain 
topic or kind. Of course with a private company that is allowed and 
expected. The idea is that when there is freedom different opinions will 
sort of cancel out. It's called a free press.

But when governments get involved in manipulating choices, then we are 
treading into areas that are political and I might mention illegal. I 
know illegal doesn't bother HVAC. How about You?

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#554061

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 16:30 -0600
Message-ID<na2sa1$sod$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#554041
On 2/17/2016 3:30 PM, benj wrote:
> On 02/17/2016 10:16 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/17/2016 9:04 AM, benj wrote:
>>> What I hate are ignorant dishonest wordmeisters like yourself who know
>>> know science, have no science education yet want to become
>>> self-appointed dictators of everything done in science. That's why I
>>> hate everything you represent, not only in science.
>>
>> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. No
>> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
>> scientifically."
>>
>> But if you then want to publish a paper on your work, then you do not
>> have a native freedom to select your audience. You can't say, "It is my
>> inborn right to have the readers of Physical Review A see the results of
>> my work."
>>
>> If someone writes a novel and submits it to Simon & Schuster, and the
>> editor there declines to publish the novel, that is not the act of a
>> dictator.
>
> Yes he is. Especially when the refusal covers all novels of a certain
> topic or kind.

COMPLETELY disagree, and I'm quite certain that most people disagree 
with you.

> Of course with a private company that is allowed and
> expected.

Right!

> The idea is that when there is freedom different opinions will
> sort of cancel out. It's called a free press.

Right! But of course in proportion to the interest. So a free press 
outlet that caters to publications about Amish life is going to be 
smaller than a free press outlet about rap music.

> But when governments get involved in manipulating choices, then we are
> treading into areas that are political and I might mention illegal. I
> know illegal doesn't bother HVAC. How about You?

Ben, according to you, governments are involved in EVERYTHING on one way 
or the other. The only way you would ever get away from that is if 
scientific research would be completely separated from any government 
involvement -- i.e. sponsored and controlled by the private sector.

So now here are some interesting questions:
- Will a private company invest in ESP research? If a private company 
decides not to be interested in sponsoring or publishing ESP research, 
is that censorship? (See your comment above, "Of course, with a private 
company that is allowed and expected.") Are you HAPPY with the balance 
afforded by free press, that might well produce very small private 
sector interest in ESP research?
- Will a private company invest in general relativity research? If a 
private company decides not to be interested in sponsoring or publishing 
general relativity research, is that censorship? (See your comment 
above, "Of course, with a private company that is allowed and 
expected.") Are you HAPPY with the balance afforded by free press, that 
might well produce very small private sector interest in general 
relativity research?


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#554084

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-17 19:28 -0500
Message-ID<Je8xy.5470$KK.1504@fx19.iad>
In reply to#554061
On 02/17/2016 05:30 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/17/2016 3:30 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 02/17/2016 10:16 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 2/17/2016 9:04 AM, benj wrote:
>>>> What I hate are ignorant dishonest wordmeisters like yourself who know
>>>> know science, have no science education yet want to become
>>>> self-appointed dictators of everything done in science. That's why I
>>>> hate everything you represent, not only in science.
>>>
>>> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop you. No
>>> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
>>> scientifically."
>>>
>>> But if you then want to publish a paper on your work, then you do not
>>> have a native freedom to select your audience. You can't say, "It is my
>>> inborn right to have the readers of Physical Review A see the results of
>>> my work."
>>>
>>> If someone writes a novel and submits it to Simon & Schuster, and the
>>> editor there declines to publish the novel, that is not the act of a
>>> dictator.
>>
>> Yes he is. Especially when the refusal covers all novels of a certain
>> topic or kind.
>
> COMPLETELY disagree, and I'm quite certain that most people disagree
> with you.

So in YOUR science a nice democratic vote determines truth! Do you 
understand how ignorant and irrational that is?

>> Of course with a private company that is allowed and
>> expected.
>
> Right!
>
>> The idea is that when there is freedom different opinions will
>> sort of cancel out. It's called a free press.
>
> Right! But of course in proportion to the interest. So a free press
> outlet that caters to publications about Amish life is going to be
> smaller than a free press outlet about rap music.
>
>> But when governments get involved in manipulating choices, then we are
>> treading into areas that are political and I might mention illegal. I
>> know illegal doesn't bother HVAC. How about You?
>
> Ben, according to you, governments are involved in EVERYTHING on one way
> or the other. The only way you would ever get away from that is if
> scientific research would be completely separated from any government
> involvement -- i.e. sponsored and controlled by the private sector.

Politicians -> power ; Bears -> honey!

> So now here are some interesting questions:
> - Will a private company invest in ESP research? If a private company
> decides not to be interested in sponsoring or publishing ESP research,
> is that censorship? (See your comment above, "Of course, with a private
> company that is allowed and expected.") Are you HAPPY with the balance
> afforded by free press, that might well produce very small private
> sector interest in ESP research?

I'm sure many private companies invest in ESP research. The issue is 
Censorship. The issue is a controlled press and other media. The issue 
is government control of any research that to them threatens their 
perceived political power. This is not only illegal but destructive to 
the country and to science. The press today is so far from "free" that 
it is laughable for you to even suggest it. Pravda means 'truth' you know.


> - Will a private company invest in general relativity research? If a
> private company decides not to be interested in sponsoring or publishing
> general relativity research, is that censorship? (See your comment
> above, "Of course, with a private company that is allowed and
> expected.") Are you HAPPY with the balance afforded by free press, that
> might well produce very small private sector interest in general
> relativity research?

Will a private company invest in relativity research? What is the 
potential payback. (Investment, boinker is putting in money to fund 
something that will produce returns later. Putting a bunch of 
imaginative eggheads to work with some gigantic pyramid building project 
has little chance of any return.

The serious problem that you SHOULD investigate but are too unqualified 
to do so, is the question of how much science the government already 
knows is TRUE and for political reasons keeps secret. Even worse the 
government uses tax money to fund cover-ups and media censorship to 
insure that the secrets do not come out. Leaks of course do occur, but 
as we all know here all you need to do is start screaming that the 
leakers are KOOKS and INSANE and if they still won't shut up you tell 
HVAC to kill them. Obviously you are FOR this sort of thing.

Since I'm insane, obviously nobody needs to listen to me. So why do you 
keep responding to my insane trolls? HVAC is obsessed with me too. But I 
think he's in love with me.


-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#554205

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-18 07:39 -0600
Message-ID<na4hhh$1gv1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#554084
On 2/17/2016 6:28 PM, benj wrote:
> On 02/17/2016 05:30 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/17/2016 3:30 PM, benj wrote:
>>> On 02/17/2016 10:16 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/17/2016 9:04 AM, benj wrote:
>>>>> What I hate are ignorant dishonest wordmeisters like yourself who know
>>>>> know science, have no science education yet want to become
>>>>> self-appointed dictators of everything done in science. That's why I
>>>>> hate everything you represent, not only in science.
>>>>
>>>> Ben, if you want to study ESP, go ahead. Nobody is going to stop
>>>> you. No
>>>> dictator is going to say, "Ben, you are not permitted to study ESP
>>>> scientifically."
>>>>
>>>> But if you then want to publish a paper on your work, then you do not
>>>> have a native freedom to select your audience. You can't say, "It is my
>>>> inborn right to have the readers of Physical Review A see the
>>>> results of
>>>> my work."
>>>>
>>>> If someone writes a novel and submits it to Simon & Schuster, and the
>>>> editor there declines to publish the novel, that is not the act of a
>>>> dictator.
>>>
>>> Yes he is. Especially when the refusal covers all novels of a certain
>>> topic or kind.
>>
>> COMPLETELY disagree, and I'm quite certain that most people disagree
>> with you.
>
> So in YOUR science a nice democratic vote determines truth! Do you
> understand how ignorant and irrational that is?

The meanings of "censorship" and "editorial control" and "moderation" 
are not a scientific manner. And yes, the meaning of words is a 
democratic thing. If you want to invent your own language because (in 
your mind) your definitions are scientifically true, then you go right 
ahead, Ben. See where it gets you.

>
>>> Of course with a private company that is allowed and
>>> expected.
>>
>> Right!
>>
>>> The idea is that when there is freedom different opinions will
>>> sort of cancel out. It's called a free press.
>>
>> Right! But of course in proportion to the interest. So a free press
>> outlet that caters to publications about Amish life is going to be
>> smaller than a free press outlet about rap music.
>>
>>> But when governments get involved in manipulating choices, then we are
>>> treading into areas that are political and I might mention illegal. I
>>> know illegal doesn't bother HVAC. How about You?
>>
>> Ben, according to you, governments are involved in EVERYTHING on one way
>> or the other. The only way you would ever get away from that is if
>> scientific research would be completely separated from any government
>> involvement -- i.e. sponsored and controlled by the private sector.
>
> Politicians -> power ; Bears -> honey!
>
>> So now here are some interesting questions:
>> - Will a private company invest in ESP research? If a private company
>> decides not to be interested in sponsoring or publishing ESP research,
>> is that censorship? (See your comment above, "Of course, with a private
>> company that is allowed and expected.") Are you HAPPY with the balance
>> afforded by free press, that might well produce very small private
>> sector interest in ESP research?
>
> I'm sure many private companies invest in ESP research.

Name three.

> The issue is
> Censorship. The issue is a controlled press and other media.

As I thought. You are complaining about lack of access to audiences, 
starved for attention. You want to be able to publish on any subject in 
any publication to any audience, whether that publication is a private 
company or not. (Television networks, newspapers, book publishers, 
journal publishers are all private companies, Ben. You can check on 
that.) So even though you said earlier that private companies have the 
right to decline publication of submissions if they choose, because in 
the end the free market balances all that out, somehow now that isn't 
good enough for you.

> The issue
> is government control of any research that to them threatens their
> perceived political power.

No government agency is going to prevent anyone from doing ESP research. 
Even you. Others too.

> This is not only illegal but destructive to
> the country and to science. The press today is so far from "free" that
> it is laughable for you to even suggest it. Pravda means 'truth' you know.
>
>
>> - Will a private company invest in general relativity research? If a
>> private company decides not to be interested in sponsoring or publishing
>> general relativity research, is that censorship? (See your comment
>> above, "Of course, with a private company that is allowed and
>> expected.") Are you HAPPY with the balance afforded by free press, that
>> might well produce very small private sector interest in general
>> relativity research?
>
> Will a private company invest in relativity research? What is the
> potential payback. (Investment, boinker is putting in money to fund
> something that will produce returns later. Putting a bunch of
> imaginative eggheads to work with some gigantic pyramid building project
> has little chance of any return.
>
> The serious problem that you SHOULD investigate but are too unqualified
> to do so, is the question of how much science the government already
> knows is TRUE and for political reasons keeps secret.

I'm sorry, but what? Which publishing houses have been squeezed by the 
government not to publish scientific research? Name the private 
companies that have been squashed.

> Even worse the
> government uses tax money to fund cover-ups and media censorship to
> insure that the secrets do not come out. Leaks of course do occur, but
> as we all know here all you need to do is start screaming that the
> leakers are KOOKS and INSANE and if they still won't shut up you tell
> HVAC to kill them. Obviously you are FOR this sort of thing.
>
> Since I'm insane, obviously nobody needs to listen to me.

We've had this discussion. Being insane doesn't mean you'll get ignored. 
People gape at insane people. Your getting attention doesn't mean you're 
not insane.

> So why do you
> keep responding to my insane trolls? HVAC is obsessed with me too. But I
> think he's in love with me.
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#552440

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-11 19:53 -0800
Message-ID<dac035ed-eea7-474f-ac2c-0b8a84154fbb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#552389
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 1:28:51 AM UTC+2, HVAC wrote:
> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites] 
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
> never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
> to them). 
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
> waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
> (according to them). 
> 
> Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
> and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence: 
> - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
> the theory 
> - that binary pairs of black holes exist 
> - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
> theory 
> 
> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
> respond? 
> ---------------
> 
> Calling that kooky band of brothers 'stillborn luddites', is being unkind to stillborn luddites.
> 
> They have literally nothing to validate their anti science, pro superstition paranoia, but now they are in full knee jerk mode and trying to cover their ass.
> 
> Most people outgrow this need for attention. Some, obviously, do not
======================
imbecile gangster dreck 


IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO CLAIM THAT
GRAVITY WAVES ARE MAKING GRAVITY!!
YOU MUST TELL
HOW DOES THEY DO IT ***??!

y.PRAT

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#552450

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-02-12 04:33 +0000
Message-ID<n9jnbn$a6k$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#552389
HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> writes:

>[To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites] 

>A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
>on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
>never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
>to them). 

>A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
>on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
>waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
>(according to them). 

...

I don't know about the others but if he can overlook the involvement of
things he hates (black holes, gravity) perhaps Sefton can get off on it
since it really involves spinny things!

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#552430

FromYousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com>
Date2016-02-11 22:02 -0500
Message-ID<Z9ydnVyQ0ae41iDLnZ2dnUU7-R-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#552385
On 11/02/2016 6:08 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
>
> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they
> respond?
>
> Some possibilities:
> "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but
> what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do
> anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
>
> "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory
> doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion
> other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore
> I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity
> are right -- never."
>
> "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely
> that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the
> reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory
> and general relativity are correct."
>
> "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the
> experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there
> was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish
> to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should
> ignore all of them."
>
> "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field
> theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better
> about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if
> the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of
> them."
>
> Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?

Good prediction of the upcoming excuses. Most of them will never believe 
in it, because they have their minds made up. Just like the Moon Landing 
conspiracists still won't believe it, despite all of the evidence.

	Yousuf Khan

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#552443

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-11 23:02 -0500
Message-ID<tPcvy.61523$v02.32468@fx40.iad>
In reply to#552430
On 02/11/2016 10:02 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On 11/02/2016 6:08 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
>>
>> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they
>> respond?
>>
>> Some possibilities:
>> "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but
>> what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do
>> anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
>>
>> "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory
>> doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion
>> other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore
>> I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity
>> are right -- never."
>>
>> "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely
>> that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the
>> reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory
>> and general relativity are correct."
>>
>> "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the
>> experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there
>> was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish
>> to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should
>> ignore all of them."
>>
>> "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field
>> theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better
>> about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if
>> the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of
>> them."
>>
>> Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
>
> Good prediction of the upcoming excuses. Most of them will never believe
> in it, because they have their minds made up. Just like the Moon Landing
> conspiracists still won't believe it, despite all of the evidence.
>
>      Yousuf Khan

All WHAT evidence Khan? They found a couple tiny wrinkles supposedly due 
to motion 1/1000 the diameter of a nucleus and you guys fall all over 
yourselves with belief? How gullible are you?

Do you even know what a WAVE is? It obeys the wave equation. Even if 
those tiny wrinkles WERE due to black holes where is the proof they are 
waves? You know electric fields travel at the speed of light. Magnetic 
fields travel at the speed of light. Are they waves?

The way everyone here has been trained to believe anything the official 
media screams and disbelieve anything that contradicts official stories 
is simply amazing. It's deevolution back to monkeys. There is FAR FAR 
more solid evidence for ESP and Remote Viewing that all of the LIGO data 
put together!

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#552533

FromYousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com>
Date2016-02-12 11:34 -0500
Message-ID<vNGdnT1mmbkBlCPLnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#552443
On 11/02/2016 11:02 PM, benj wrote:
> On 02/11/2016 10:02 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>> Good prediction of the upcoming excuses. Most of them will never believe
>> in it, because they have their minds made up. Just like the Moon Landing
>> conspiracists still won't believe it, despite all of the evidence.
>>
>>      Yousuf Khan
>
> All WHAT evidence Khan? They found a couple tiny wrinkles supposedly due
> to motion 1/1000 the diameter of a nucleus and you guys fall all over
> yourselves with belief? How gullible are you?

So, I guess you're going to go with a combination of these two excuses 
then? :D

(1) "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely
that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the
reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory
and general relativity are correct."

(2) "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the
experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there
was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish
to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should
ignore all of them."

	Yousuf Khan

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#552592 — Re: Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable.

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 14:55 -0500
SubjectRe: Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable.
Message-ID<zMqvy.24091$SO7.300@fx13.iad>
In reply to#552533
On 02/12/2016 01:54 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>
>
>     Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable.
>
>     He doesn't need logic, math or observations because
>     he's smarter than _all_ physicists, including Einstein.
>

Einstein was smarter. He knew the easy way to science fame was to 
plagiarize the work of others and publish it as your own.

Me. I"m not that smart.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#552600 — Better art refines prior art.

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 12:19 -0800
SubjectBetter art refines prior art.
Message-ID<6cfc3abb-7007-4167-adda-43eade58e29f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#552592
Odd
You STILL have no mechanism.
Or model.

"Swarming" gmafb

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#552602 — Re: Better art refines prior art.

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 14:29 -0600
SubjectRe: Better art refines prior art.
Message-ID<n9lfas$4uc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#552600
On 2/12/2016 2:19 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> You STILL have no mechanism.
> Or model.

Physicists do. I think you just have a disagreement with physicist over 
what "model" means. Model to you means something where you can see the 
inner workings moving, cogs and cams and paths of motion of all the 
pieces. That's not what a model means to a physicist. A model means a 
theory that allows you to calculate predictions of measurable quantities 
that can be compared to experiment.

So when you say physicists don't have a model, what you're really saying 
is that they don't have YOUR kind of model. And physicists will say, "So?"

>
> "Swarming" gmafb
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#552603 — Re: Better art refines prior art.

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 14:37 -0600
SubjectRe: Better art refines prior art.
Message-ID<n9lfpj$657$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#552602
On 2/12/2016 2:29 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/12/2016 2:19 PM, john wrote:
>> Odd
>> You STILL have no mechanism.
>> Or model.
>
> Physicists do. I think you just have a disagreement with physicist over
> what "model" means. Model to you means something where you can see the
> inner workings moving, cogs and cams and paths of motion of all the
> pieces. That's not what a model means to a physicist. A model means a
> theory that allows you to calculate predictions of measurable quantities
> that can be compared to experiment.
>
> So when you say physicists don't have a model, what you're really saying
> is that they don't have YOUR kind of model. And physicists will say, "So?"

As an illustration of the difference, general relativity is a model in 
the sense that physicists mean it. That is, with this model, you can 
calculate a) that black holes will form, b) that a binary system of 
black holes will orbit and inspiral and then coalesce, c) that there 
will be a very characteristic profile of gravitational waves, with 
frequency and amplitude increasing in a very particular way, observable 
when that inspiraling and coalescence happens, d) that you will be able 
to observe this signal at two different laboratories, at the same time 
except for propagation delay, with an amplitude related to the distance 
from the event, which in turn will be related to the observed frequency 
profile of the waves in a very specific way. Since the observable 
prediction in (c) and (d) match actual observations, this meets EVERY 
criterion of a model as a physicist uses that word.

The fact that you mean "model" to mean something you can animate with 
AutoCAD is entirely irrelevant.

>
>>
>> "Swarming" gmafb
>>
>
>



-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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