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Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022

From dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math, comp.ai.philosophy
Subject Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022
Date 2025-10-22 13:30 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10db4bb$pmc4$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <10dajrk$kqr7$1@dont-email.me> <10dakha$kbsi$3@dont-email.me> <10dana3$lmat$4@dont-email.me> <10danfd$kbsi$7@dont-email.me> <10dapgc$mejp$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 10/22/2025 10:25 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 10/22/2025 8:50 AM, dbush wrote:
>> On 10/22/2025 9:47 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 10/22/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 10/22/2025 8:48 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 10/22/2025 7:25 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/22/2025 7:56 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/20/2025 10:20 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-21, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2025 9:11 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-21, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2025 8:27 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-20, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2025 4:03 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-20, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2025 1:29 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-20, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2025 2:39 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-19, dart200 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i don't get y polcott keep hanging onto ai for dear 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life. anyone with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Throngs of dumb boomers are falling for AI generated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to be real. This is much the same thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AI is just another thing Olcott has no understanding 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of. He's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> researched the fundamentals of what it means to train 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network, and how it is ultimately just token prediction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It excels at generating good syntax. The reason for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vast amount of training data exhibits good syntax. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Where it has bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntax, it is idiosyncratic; whereas good syntax is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadly shared.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I provide a basis to it and it does perform valid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantic logical entailment on this basis and shows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you're incapable of recognizing valid entailment 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from invalid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any freaking idiot can spew out baseless rhetoric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such as this. I could do the same sort of thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and say you are wrong and stupidly wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you don't?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a whole other ballgame when one attempts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to point out actual errors that are not anchored
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in one's own lack of comprehension.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't comprehend the pointing-out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to have a sound reasoning basis to prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that an error is an actual error.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No; /YOU/ need to have sound reasonings to prove /YOUR/
>>>>>>>>>>>> extraordinary claims. The burden is on you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We already have the solid reasoning which says things are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> other than as
>>>>>>>>>>>> you say, and you don't have the faintest idea how to put a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> dent in it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you assume that I must be wrong
>>>>>>>>>>> entirely on the basis that what I say does not
>>>>>>>>>>> conform to conventional wisdom.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes; you are wrong entirely on the basis that what you say 
>>>>>>>>>> does not
>>>>>>>>>> follow a valid mode of inference for refuting an argument.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you are trying to refute something which is not only a widely
>>>>>>>>>> accepted result, but whose reasoning anyone can follow to see it
>>>>>>>>>> for themselves, you are automatically assumed wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The established result is presumed correct, pending your
>>>>>>>>>> presentation of a convincing argument.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's not just wanton arbitrariness: your claims are being
>>>>>>>>>> directly refuted by elements of the established result which
>>>>>>>>>> we can refer to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I cannot identify any flaw in the halting theorem. It's not 
>>>>>>>>>> simply
>>>>>>>>>> that I believe it because of the Big Names attached to it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And when I identify a flaw yo simply ignore
>>>>>>>>> whatever I say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope; all the ways you say claim you've identified a flaw have been
>>>>>>>> dissected by multiple poeple to a much greater detail than they 
>>>>>>>> deserve.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is disingenuous to say that you've simply had your details 
>>>>>>>> ignored.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Turing machines in general can only compute mappings
>>>>>>> from their inputs. The halting problem requires computing
>>>>>>> mappings that in some cases are not provided in the
>>>>>>> inputs therefore the halting problem is wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes that it the exact error that I have been
>>>>> referring to.
>>>>
>>>> That is not an error.  That is simply a mapping that you have 
>>>> admitted exists.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the case of HHH(DD) the above requires HHH to
>>>>> report on the behavior of its caller 
>>>>
>>>> False.  It requires HHH to report on the behavior of the machine 
>>>> described by its input.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That includes that DD calls HHH(DD) in recursive
>>> simulation.
>>
>> Which therefore includes the fact that HHH(DD) will return 0 and that 
>> DD will subsequently halt.
> 
> You keep ignoring that we are only focusing on
> DD correctly simulated by HHH. 

Which doesn't exist because HHH aborts.

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Thread

Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:00 -0500
  Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 23:05 -0400
    Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:13 -0500
      Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 23:16 -0400
        Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:25 -0500
          Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 23:29 -0400
  Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-21 03:20 +0000
    Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:29 -0500
    Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 06:56 -0500
      Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 08:25 -0400
        Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 07:48 -0500
          Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:00 -0400
            Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 08:47 -0500
              Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:50 -0400
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:25 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Python <jpierre.messager@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:27 +0000
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:30 -0400
      Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 15:40 +0000
        Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 10:47 -0500
          Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 17:07 +0000
            Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 12:11 -0500
              Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:38 -0400
              Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 18:40 +0000
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2025-10-22 13:24 -0600
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:30 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:31 -0400
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-22 20:34 +0100
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 19:52 +0000
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:00 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 20:20 +0000
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:35 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 16:43 -0400
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 16:12 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:32 -0700
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 17:50 -0400
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 23:01 +0000
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 09:55 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 16:47 +0000
                "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 12:22 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 11:50 -0700
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 21:11 +0000
                "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 17:08 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 15:21 -0700
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 15:26 -0700
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 18:40 -0400
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 17:48 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 19:09 -0400
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 23:55 +0000
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 19:00 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 23:45 +0000
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 18:51 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 20:14 -0400
                "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 17:14 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 18:33 -0400
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 23:15 +0000
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 18:24 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 20:14 -0400
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 01:22 +0000
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 20:47 -0500
                Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 22:13 -0400
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-10-23 08:02 +0200
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 09:51 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:55 -0500
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 16:24 -0400
                Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 21:55 +0000
          Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:36 -0400

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