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Groups > sci.crypt > #50223 > unrolled thread

SUSE Reviving Usenet

Started by711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
First post2021-09-29 09:04 -0500
Last post2021-10-12 09:38 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 160 — 35 participants

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Contents

  SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-29 09:04 -0500
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-09-29 14:44 +0000
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-09-30 01:44 -0400
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-30 12:25 -0400
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 14:03 -0500
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-09-30 23:36 +0000
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 20:20 -0400
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-09-30 14:45 -1000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-01 06:30 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-01 14:48 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-01 17:43 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-01 13:47 -0400
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-01 17:56 +0000
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 11:41 -0700
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-10-01 22:07 -0400
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-01 20:49 +0100
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-01 22:03 +0000
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-10-02 10:49 -0400
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-02 15:13 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 12:49 -0400
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 13:34 -0700
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 20:04 -0400
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-03 01:50 +0000
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-03 05:52 +0000
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> - 2021-10-20 00:00 +0100
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-03 17:31 +0000
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-02 23:13 -0500
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-03 01:48 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-10-02 22:23 -0400
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-02 16:07 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-02 18:06 +0100
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-02 19:55 +0000
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-02 22:17 +0100
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-03 08:15 +0000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-02 13:29 -0400
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-10-02 07:53 -1000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Alan Ralph <usenet@alanralph.co.uk> - 2021-10-02 18:58 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-02 23:27 -0500
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Alan Ralph <usenet@alanralph.co.uk> - 2021-10-03 15:34 +0000
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 01:05 -0500
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-10-02 20:04 -0400
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-04 14:17 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-04 16:42 +0100
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-10-04 17:17 +0100
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 16:38 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-04 16:10 -0400
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-10-05 00:11 -0400
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 08:31 -0400
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-10-05 11:34 -0400
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-05 17:31 +0000
                            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-10-06 09:31 +0100
                            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> - 2021-10-08 18:53 -0400
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-05 17:41 +0000
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 20:58 -0400
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-05 06:38 +0100
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-05 01:26 -0500
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-05 08:12 +0100
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-05 03:41 -0500
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-05 23:04 +0000
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-05 06:48 -0700
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-05 14:17 +0000
                            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-05 23:03 -0500
                              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-06 04:58 +0000
                                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 00:59 -0500
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-04 16:00 -0400
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-11-25 20:13 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-26 04:02 +0000
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-10-01 23:19 -0500
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-30 18:38 +0000
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-09-30 19:26 +0000
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-09-30 21:39 +0200
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-01 17:43 +0000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-10-01 21:32 +0200
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-01 20:31 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-01 21:24 +0000
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-02 11:12 -0500
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-02 18:09 +0100
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-02 18:32 +0000
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-02 20:41 +0100
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-02 23:40 -0500
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-03 17:31 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-10-03 13:31 +0200
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 05:15 -0700
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 05:27 -0700
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-03 13:35 +0000
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 07:07 -0700
                            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-03 23:06 -0500
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-03 16:25 +0000
                            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 10:00 -0700
                              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-04 14:09 +0000
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-03 22:57 -0500
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-10-04 14:06 +0200
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-04 14:11 +0100
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-10-05 10:28 +0200
                            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-05 10:44 +0100
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-04 14:21 +0000
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 15:29 +0000
                          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-10-05 11:04 +0200
                        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet lawrence@cluon.com (Lawrence Statton (NK1G)) - 2021-10-04 13:42 -0500
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ulick Magee <ulickmagee@feckoff.invalid> - 2021-11-09 23:55 +0000
                      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-09 20:44 -0600
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-01 06:22 +0100
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-01 14:55 +0000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-01 17:19 +0100
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-01 17:13 +0000
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 17:30 -0400
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-10-01 18:27 +0000
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2021-10-01 22:46 +0200
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-01 21:26 +0000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2021-10-02 01:12 -0500
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-02 11:08 +0000
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-29 16:25 +0100
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 08:17 -0500
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> - 2021-09-29 15:56 +0000
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-29 17:22 +0100
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 08:23 -0500
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 08:22 -0500
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-09-30 13:27 +0000
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 12:58 -0500
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-30 19:12 +0100
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 13:16 -0700
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 15:59 -0500
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 17:38 -0700
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-29 17:36 +0000
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 22:32 +0000
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 08:25 -0500
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 10:57 -0500
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-10-02 22:07 +0000
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-02 23:07 -0500
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 11:46 -0500
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-03 18:14 +0100
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-03 17:35 +0000
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 10:45 -0700
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 14:28 -0400
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-03 17:31 +0000
    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2021-10-06 15:55 +0300
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-10-06 14:35 +0100
      Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 00:37 -0500
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-07 07:04 +0100
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 18:30 +0000
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 08:47 -0400
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-07 13:07 +0000
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 18:16 -0500
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-10-08 00:08 +0000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 20:50 -0500
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-12 09:32 -0500
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 18:38 -0500
        Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2021-10-07 17:42 +0300
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 18:26 -0500
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 23:44 +0000
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 20:23 -0500
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-08 01:27 +0000
                  Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 20:56 -0500
                    Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-08 01:58 +0000
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-07 20:01 -0700
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-08 00:54 -0500
            Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-10-12 12:23 -0500
              Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-12 13:35 -0500
                Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-10-12 16:16 -0700
          Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-12 09:38 -0500

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#51023

FromDave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
Date2021-11-09 20:44 -0600
Message-ID<smfbn0$8fh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#51022
On 11/9/2021 5:55 PM, Ulick Magee wrote:
> On 03/10/2021 12:31, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 02/10/2021 18.12, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
>>>
>>> All youngsters and nascent hackers:
>>>
>>> 1. Register a domain name and never lose it.
>>>
>>> 2. Pay for at least 5 years in advance and put it on your calendar to
>>> check yearly.
>>>
>>> 3. Set up your emails on your own domain so you won't ever lose them.
>>
>> And how do you do this?
> 
> 
> This is what I use:
> 
> https://www.blacknight.com/email-only/
> 
> I bought my domain from them too, works out at 20 euro a year for 
> email hosting and the domain, incl VAT.

zoho.com offers free (individual) mail hosting with POP3/IMAP access 
if you wish. So if you own a domain you can redirect mail there. 
(They're an Indian company that sells online business services.) They 
claim that (unlike gmail) they don't read or track your mail. You can 
find the domain itself for a little less than 20 euro (e.g. 
namecheap.com).

The main thing about owning your own domain is that if you don't favor 
one of the big free email services (google/yahoo/aol/etc.) and change 
ISP, you don't have to change email address (or run your own mail 
server, which is a PITA).

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#50262

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-10-01 06:22 +0100
Message-ID<20211001062236.4a42ac7af8b4efa5cf3feacd@eircom.net>
In reply to#50249
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 19:26:42 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> In sci.crypt Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:

> > As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on 
> > former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to 
> > prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and 
> > gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers 
> > entirely back in the mid-aughts.
> 
> That did also have an impact.  But consider that had NNTP/Usenet 
> service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP 

	Consider also that it was dropped globally not just in the US.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

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#50265

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2021-10-01 14:55 +0000
Message-ID<sj77hc$1v6$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#50262
In sci.crypt Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 19:26:42 -0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> In sci.crypt Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> 
>> > As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on 
>> > former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to 
>> > prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and 
>> > gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers 
>> > entirely back in the mid-aughts.
>> 
>> That did also have an impact.  But consider that had NNTP/Usenet 
>> service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP 
> 
>        Consider also that it was dropped globally not just in the US.

True, and anyone outside of the US would not have cared much about the 
NY AG's blustering.

From the ISP perspective, it is a simple matter to monitor number of 
users signing up vs.  number of users using "the web" and number of 
users using "Usenet".  They all likely had logs and stats showing 
something like 99% of new users never touch Usenet and something like 
98% of existing users never touch Usenet and so after some time, they 
decided to drop Usenet because it was a direct cost to them, but 
clearly not a reason why all those users were paying them for access.

And, if those ISP's were running NNTP servers *and* carrying the 
alt.binaries hierarchy, the huge size of alt.binaries made the NNTP 
server a huge cost burden for the amount of storage necessary for even 
a few days of retention on alt.binaries.

Now, they /could/ have just dropped alt.binaries.* and saved themselves 
the expense of storage for that portion of Usenet.  But if they did 
have stat's showing something like only 2% of their users ever use 
Usenet, then dropping everything in their view did little harm to 
anyone.  They were not likely to lose anything but pocket change from 
the 2% of users who might complain or go elsewhere.

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#50267

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-10-01 17:19 +0100
Message-ID<20211001171942.10342ab1a259ea1430458838@eircom.net>
In reply to#50265
On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 14:55:40 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> And, if those ISP's were running NNTP servers *and* carrying the 
> alt.binaries hierarchy, the huge size of alt.binaries made the NNTP 
> server a huge cost burden for the amount of storage necessary for even 
> a few days of retention on alt.binaries.

	Not just storage (which is cheap) but also bandwidth lwhich after
all was (and is) their main product and at the time very expensive. Losing
vast quantities of bandwidth to a full USENET feed (and often that was the
option for USENET peering take it all or take none of it) at a time when WWW
was often claimed to stand for World Wide Wait was not good business.

> They were not likely to lose anything but pocket change from 
> the 2% of users who might complain or go elsewhere.

	Not even that when nobody is providing an NNTP service as part of
the package because even if you have to go elsewhere for USENET you still
need the ISP for connectivity.

	but USENET was just the first service to go, most ISPs these days
provide connectivity, maybe static IPs, maybe IPv6 and (reluctantly) an
outgoing SMTP relay, but you'll have to ask about it and they probably
wouldn't bother if they didn't need it for themselves. You want email, or 
web hosting or USENET or an ftp archive or ... "Go find it yourself start at
Google they've got everything you need".

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

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#50268

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2021-10-01 17:13 +0000
Message-ID<sj7fj2$ubo$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#50267
In sci.crypt Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 14:55:40 -0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> And, if those ISP's were running NNTP servers *and* carrying the 
>> alt.binaries hierarchy, the huge size of alt.binaries made the NNTP 
>> server a huge cost burden for the amount of storage necessary for 
>> even a few days of retention on alt.binaries.
> 
>        Not just storage (which is cheap) but also bandwidth lwhich 
> after all was (and is) their main product and at the time very 
> expensive.  Losing vast quantities of bandwidth to a full USENET feed 
> (and often that was the option for USENET peering take it all or take 
> none of it) at a time when WWW was often claimed to stand for World 
> Wide Wait was not good business.

Ah, yes, a 'peering' arrangement that is "all or nothing" causes a huge 
bandwidth charge, to receive alt.binaries.*, even if they were all 
subsequently dropped locally to avoid any 'copyright infringement' 
appearances.  That right there would have given the bean-counters at 
the ISP reason enough to target Usenet as a "drop this cost center" 
item.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#50258

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2021-09-30 17:30 -0400
Message-ID<sj5a9u$u0k$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#50245
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media,
>>> reddit, and the like.
>>
>>It is also obscure because:
>>
>>  1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
>>     provided package of features when one purchased an account.  If
>>     one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not
>>     already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access,
>>     then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people
>>     on the 'net' of Usenet
>
> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on
> former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to
> prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and
> gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers entirely
> back in the mid-aughts.

I don't remember it quite that way.  The complaint was "copyrighted
material" which was all over Usenet at the time.

If someone pointed to child pornography I don't remember it.

All the ISPs dropped Usenet like a hot potato.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#50274

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2021-10-01 18:27 +0000
Message-ID<sj7jv5$pib$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#50245
Questor <usenet@only.tnx> schrieb:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>>> and the like.
>>
>>It is also obscure because:
>>
>>  1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their 
>>     provided package of features when one purchased an account.  If 
>>     one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not 
>>     already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access, 
>>     then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people 
>>     on the 'net' of Usenet
>
> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on former New
> York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to prosecute ISPs over
> alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and gave the major ISPs an excuse
> to shut down their NNTP servers entirely back in the mid-aughts.

I thought the correct description was "the naughties"?

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#50280

FromJakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid>
Date2021-10-01 22:46 +0200
Message-ID<OIWdnUQBw4AP7sr8nZ2dnUU78aXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#50274
On 2021-10-01 20:27, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Questor <usenet@only.tnx> schrieb:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>>>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>>>> and the like.
>>>
>>> It is also obscure because:
>>>
>>>   1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
>>>      provided package of features when one purchased an account.  If
>>>      one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not
>>>      already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access,
>>>      then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people
>>>      on the 'net' of Usenet
>>
>> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on former New
>> York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to prosecute ISPs over
>> alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and gave the major ISPs an excuse
>> to shut down their NNTP servers entirely back in the mid-aughts.
> 
> I thought the correct description was "the naughties"?
> 

I was fortunate  in the 1990s to early 2000s to use a dial up ISP that 
had a private NNTP hierarchy as their main support channel (it grew out 
of a local distributor of Modem hardware, and their initial setup was a
huge modem bank from the rack-mounted variant of the modems that I had
purchased directly).  Before that, they had run their own support BBS.

Later they were bought out by incompetent foreign operators and the 
dedicated newsgroups faded away.  Much later they sold all the e-mail 
accounts (which I paid for until the price was dropped to 0) to a local
search portal's e-mail service.  I'm now stuck with a DSL line that 
keeps changing my home IP too often, while our office connections are 
with more expensive providers, that keep at least some semblance of 
stable IP connectivity for our company servers.

Which means company e-mail runs on our own and rented servers, while
personal e-mail is hosted at a dedicated provider that also sells web 
hosting (to those that need it).  For NNTP, I pay for a personal account
with a global usenet host, while home access uses a free provider
that doesn't allow access from work networks.


Enjoy

Jakob
-- 
Jakob Bohm, CIO, Partner, WiseMo A/S.  https://www.wisemo.com
Transformervej 29, 2860 Søborg, Denmark.  Direct +45 31 13 16 10
This public discussion message is non-binding and may contain errors.
WiseMo - Remote Service Management for PCs, Phones and Embedded

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#50282

FromBranimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com>
Date2021-10-01 21:26 +0000
Message-ID<b2L5J.141062$rl3.117711@fx45.iad>
In reply to#50280
On 2021-10-01, Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> wrote:
> hosting (to those that need it).  For NNTP, I pay for a personal account
> with a global usenet host, while home access uses a free provider
> that doesn't allow access from work networks.
>

me as well, usenet server 5$ for lifetime :P
>
> Enjoy
>
> Jakob


-- 

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!

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#50290

Fromant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
Date2021-10-02 01:12 -0500
Message-ID<aLWdnQ31L9b-Zcr8nZ2dnUU7-VednZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#50282
In alt.folklore.computers Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> wrote:
> On 2021-10-01, Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> wrote:
> > hosting (to those that need it).  For NNTP, I pay for a personal account
> > with a global usenet host, while home access uses a free provider
> > that doesn't allow access from work networks.
> >

> me as well, usenet server 5$ for lifetime :P

Which server is that? Do they still offer it and has binaries? ;)

-- 
So many leaks (liquid & digital types), sneezes, itches, pains, videos, issues, software updates, games, etc. Also, BUSY & tired! :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
 / /\ /\ \                      Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )

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#50294

FromBranimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com>
Date2021-10-02 11:08 +0000
Message-ID<L4X5J.25398$nh7.16693@fx22.iad>
In reply to#50290
On 2021-10-02, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> In alt.folklore.computers Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-10-01, Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> wrote:
>> > hosting (to those that need it).  For NNTP, I pay for a personal account
>> > with a global usenet host, while home access uses a free provider
>> > that doesn't allow access from work networks.
>> >
>
>> me as well, usenet server 5$ for lifetime :P
>
> Which server is that? Do they still offer it and has binaries? ;)
>
https://usenet-news.net
10GB lifetime for only 5$.
If you need binaries you pay more, of course :p

-- 

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp

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#50226

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-09-29 16:25 +0100
Message-ID<20210929162552.4d50e625606f2cfa30c3f5f1@eircom.net>
In reply to#50223
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:

> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead.

	There is a branch of USENET that's alive and kicking that funds a
number of commercial NNTP servers with enormous retention times (multiple
years), a large catalogue of binary groups and some very odd posting
arrangements. But that's not really USENET it's file sharing by NNTP.

	I keep getting tempted to run up a text only server here but
managing misbehaving users is a PITA.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#50236

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-09-30 08:17 -0500
Message-ID<sj4dcv$1qgf$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#50226
On 9/29/21 10:25 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> 
>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead.
> 
> 	There is a branch of USENET that's alive and kicking that funds a
> number of commercial NNTP servers with enormous retention times (multiple
> years), a large catalogue of binary groups and some very odd posting
> arrangements. But that's not really USENET it's file sharing by NNTP.
> 
> 	I keep getting tempted to run up a text only server here but
> managing misbehaving users is a PITA.
> 

Indeed. That's why I am hesitating to set up a open NNTP
server--managing the rabble is a tedious job. I really want to set one
up, but I really do not want to commit to all the daily janitorial work.

If we had Usenet hierarchies that could require proof of work from
clients, sort of like Bitmessage does, or imposed post limits based on
signing keys that require a long time to generate one signing key, that
could mitigate a lot of the spam and trolling.

But then we get into the need for re-factoring client software and all
the associated boondoggle.

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#50227

FromJason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com>
Date2021-09-29 15:56 +0000
Message-ID<sj22bi$28p$1@theuse.news.theuse.net>
In reply to#50223
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:

> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.

I'm glad you liked my presentation. I've been trying to get more people 
to use it. I've written a couple of "for newbs" tutorials and I've gotten 
some good feedback. 

I'm hoping to do some more projects in the future to shed light on Usenet 
as something more than just a file-sharing platform.

__
JE

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#50229

From"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
Date2021-09-29 17:22 +0100
Message-ID<20210929172256.dcbf2a9c2dbbdb7febae1608@127.0.0.1>
In reply to#50227
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:56:34 -0000 (UTC)
Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
> 
> > I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using
> > Usenet. I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered

That's not really "using": or maybe it is - like drug-user; purely consuming.

> > it dead. It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social
> > media, reddit, and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their
> > addictive behavior modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we
> > will serve the ASCII.
> 
> I'm glad you liked my presentation. I've been trying to get more
> people to use it. I've written a couple of "for newbs" tutorials and
> I've gotten some good feedback. 
> 
> I'm hoping to do some more projects in the future to shed light on
> Usenet as something more than just a file-sharing platform.
> 
> __
> JE


-- 
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#50238

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-09-30 08:23 -0500
Message-ID<sj4doi$1v5d$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#50229
On 9/29/21 11:22 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:56:34 -0000 (UTC)
> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using
>>> Usenet. I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered
> 
> That's not really "using": or maybe it is - like drug-user; purely consuming.

Semantics, shmantix.

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#50237

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-09-30 08:22 -0500
Message-ID<sj4dm6$1v5d$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#50227
On 9/29/21 10:56 AM, Jason Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
> 
>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
>> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.
> 
> I'm glad you liked my presentation. I've been trying to get more people 
> to use it. I've written a couple of "for newbs" tutorials and I've gotten 
> some good feedback. 
> 
> I'm hoping to do some more projects in the future to shed light on Usenet 
> as something more than just a file-sharing platform.
> 
> __
> JE
> 

A slick and highly secure client interface that abstracts away some of
the "clunk" might be a good draw. These days people expect things to be
"appified.

Automatic threading for replies, like text boards and reddit do, would
greatly improve the reading experience, and eliminate the debate about
top posting and bottom posting, since the client could format
automatically and make it fool proof.

Keep plugging away!

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#50240

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2021-09-30 13:27 +0000
Message-ID<sj4e03$2cq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#50237
In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> Automatic threading for replies, like text boards and reddit do, 
> would greatly improve the reading experience, and eliminate the 
> debate about top posting and bottom posting, since the client could 
> format automatically and make it fool proof.

Oh ye of little faith.

Don't you know that once you make something "fool proof" that the world 
goes and creates a better "fool".

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#50243

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-09-30 12:58 -0500
Message-ID<sj4tpt$1sal$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#50240
On 9/30/21 8:27 AM, Rich wrote:
> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> Automatic threading for replies, like text boards and reddit do, 
>> would greatly improve the reading experience, and eliminate the 
>> debate about top posting and bottom posting, since the client could 
>> format automatically and make it fool proof.
> 
> Oh ye of little faith.
> 
> Don't you know that once you make something "fool proof" that the world 
> goes and creates a better "fool".
> 

I see, said the blind man. True words.

It's as if the gremlin knows a problem has been solved and so it creates
two new ones.

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#50244

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-09-30 19:12 +0100
Message-ID<20210930191214.dc2b0e48d4e8fdaae92dcb49@eircom.net>
In reply to#50243
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:58:04 -0500
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:

> It's as if the gremlin knows a problem has been solved and so it creates
> two new ones.

<raises lightning rod>

	Gremlins evolve like everything else.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

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