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Groups > linux.debian.security > #5053 > unrolled thread
| Started by | te3d4q@sigaint.org |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-10-11 17:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2016-10-13 16:50 +0200 |
| Articles | 14 — 8 participants |
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Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? te3d4q@sigaint.org - 2016-10-11 17:10 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Moritz Mühlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> - 2016-10-11 17:30 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? te3d4q@sigaint.org - 2016-10-11 22:10 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Moritz Muehlenhoff <jmm@debian.org> - 2016-10-11 23:10 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? te3d4q@sigaint.org - 2016-10-12 12:50 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2016-10-12 17:20 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? te3d4q@sigaint.org - 2016-10-13 16:50 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2016-10-13 20:40 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2016-10-18 22:30 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2016-10-19 17:00 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Alexander Schreiber <als@thangorodrim.ch> - 2016-10-20 01:00 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2016-10-20 02:40 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? Moritz Muehlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> - 2016-10-12 22:40 +0200
Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? te3d4q@sigaint.org - 2016-10-13 16:50 +0200
| From | te3d4q@sigaint.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 17:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <sr6QO-8jN-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
I read somewhere on a forum that for security vulnerabilities that have "NVD security" ratings of medium or low risk, Debian's security team may not issue patches/fixes for them. Only high-risk security vulnerabilities will be fixed. Is that correct? I was under the impression that all security vulnerabilities of whatever their risk ratings will be fixed. If you are a member of or know someone who is on Debian's security team, please clarify ask them to clarify it for me. Thanks.
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| From | Moritz Mühlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 17:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <sr7a9-8qo-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5053 |
te3d4q@sigaint.org <te3d4q@sigaint.org> schrieb:
> I read somewhere on a forum that for security vulnerabilities that have
> "NVD security" ratings of medium or low risk, Debian's security team may
> not issue patches/fixes for them. Only high-risk security vulnerabilities
> will be fixed. Is that correct?
No, the NVD ratings are entirely meaningless to us. In addition to security
issues fixed in DSAs, there are also minor security fixes provided via
the jessie point updates.
Cheers,
Moritz
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| From | te3d4q@sigaint.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 22:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srbx7-2Kh-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5054 |
> No, the NVD ratings are entirely meaningless to us. In addition to > security > issues fixed in DSAs, there are also minor security fixes provided via > the jessie point updates. > > Cheers, > Moritz 1. If NVD ratings are meaningless to Debian's security team, how does the security team prioritize which vulnerability should be fixed first before others? 2. According to https://www.debian.org/security/, it states: "Debian also participates in security standardization efforts: the Debian Security Advisories are CVE-Compatible (review the cross references) and Debian is represented in the Board of the Open Vulnerability Assessment Language project." If Debian Security Advisories are CVE-compatible, it means that the former accept the NVD ratings included in CVEs, yes?
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| From | Moritz Muehlenhoff <jmm@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 23:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srctb-3jq-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5055 |
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 08:04:33PM -0000, te3d4q@sigaint.org wrote:
> 1. If NVD ratings are meaningless to Debian's security team, how does the
> security team prioritize which vulnerability should be fixed first before
> others?
We look at the vulnerabilities and make an assessment.
> 2. According to https://www.debian.org/security/, it states:
>
> "Debian also participates in security standardization efforts: the Debian
> Security Advisories are CVE-Compatible (review the cross references) and
> Debian is represented in the Board of the Open Vulnerability Assessment
> Language project."
>
> If Debian Security Advisories are CVE-compatible, it means that the former
> accept the NVD ratings included in CVEs, yes?
We use CVE IDs for mapping vulnerabilities. NVD ratings have about the same
influence to our work as moon phases.
Cheers,
Moritz
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| From | te3d4q@sigaint.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-12 12:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srpgJ-3eb-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5056 |
> We look at the vulnerabilities and make an assessment. > Cheers, > Moritz > 1. If I understood correctly the contents of your reply, on what basis does the Debian security team assess the severity of each security vulnerability? What are those criteria? 2. Your latest reply implies strongly the possibility of the Debian security team's assessments of security vulnerabilities differing from those of the security teams of other popular Linux distros such as Gentoo, Kali, ArchLinux, Ubuntu, etc. Am I correct? As an example, ArchLinux issues a patch for a security vulnerability CVE-2016-xyz with an NVD rating of medium risk. However the Debian security team does not issue a fix for it.
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-12 17:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srtu2-6cx-37@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5057 |
On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 10:43:41AM -0000, te3d4q@sigaint.org wrote: >1. If I understood correctly the contents of your reply, on what basis >does the Debian security team assess the severity of each security >vulnerability? What are those criteria? You'll find that there's a lot of criticism of CVSS in the industry, and that a real CVSS number depends heavily on temporal and environmental factors which aren't reflected in the NVD baseline. It's not particularly uncommon for base scores to be overinflated given configuration specifics, or to understate the importance of vulnerabilities being actively exploited. Relying soley on base scores to prioritize actions without considering the environmental or temporal factors is a mistake per the guidelines on how to use CVSS. >2. Your latest reply implies strongly the possibility of the Debian >security team's assessments of security vulnerabilities differing from >those of the security teams of other popular Linux distros such as Gentoo, >Kali, ArchLinux, Ubuntu, etc. Am I correct? You'll find that no vendor uses CVSS base scores in NVD to strictly prioritize their work. >As an example, ArchLinux issues a patch for a security vulnerability >CVE-2016-xyz with an NVD rating of medium risk. However the Debian >security team does not issue a fix for it. To have an example, you'd need specifics. This is a hypothetical without a question. If the implicit question is "could this happen" the answer is yes, but you'd need to discuss a specific case to find out why. Mike Stone
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| From | te3d4q@sigaint.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srPux-4ML-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5058 |
> > To have an example, you'd need specifics. This is a hypothetical without > a question. If the implicit question is "could this happen" the answer > is yes, but you'd need to discuss a specific case to find out why. > > Mike Stone As you asked me for a specific case, may I bring up CVE-2016-5696. A fix to the medium-risk vulnerability was uploaded on July 10, 2016 by Eric Dumazet (cf. https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/75ff39ccc1bd5d3c455b6822ab09e533c551f758) Ben Hutchings uploaded his work on the fix on August 12, 2016 (cf. https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/kernel/linux.git/log/?h=jessie-security) Debian officially pushed out the fix on September 4, 2016 via DSA-3659-1. Are there reasons for the 23-day delay in providing end-users the patch? To the best of my knowledge, Ubuntu advised its end-users on how to fix the vulnerability way before Debian did.
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 20:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srT57-7eS-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5061 |
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 02:45:29PM -0000, te3d4q@sigaint.org wrote: >As you asked me for a specific case, may I bring up CVE-2016-5696. > >A fix to the medium-risk vulnerability was uploaded on July 10, 2016 by >Eric Dumazet (cf. >https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/75ff39ccc1bd5d3c455b6822ab09e533c551f758) > >Ben Hutchings uploaded his work on the fix on August 12, 2016 (cf. >https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/kernel/linux.git/log/?h=jessie-security) > >Debian officially pushed out the fix on September 4, 2016 via DSA-3659-1. > >Are there reasons for the 23-day delay in providing end-users the patch? I don't know the specifics of this one but kernel updates are generally kind of a mess and in this case we're talking about an issue that basically boils down to a DoS for internet-facing hosts and for which there existed a mitigation. I'm personally not too concerned about the timeline. Mike Stone
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| From | Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-18 22:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <stJbj-6WG-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5062 |
* Michael Stone: > On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 02:45:29PM -0000, te3d4q@sigaint.org wrote: >>As you asked me for a specific case, may I bring up CVE-2016-5696. >> >>A fix to the medium-risk vulnerability was uploaded on July 10, 2016 by >>Eric Dumazet (cf. >>https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/75ff39ccc1bd5d3c455b6822ab09e533c551f758) >> >>Ben Hutchings uploaded his work on the fix on August 12, 2016 (cf. >>https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/kernel/linux.git/log/?h=jessie-security) >> >>Debian officially pushed out the fix on September 4, 2016 via DSA-3659-1. >> >>Are there reasons for the 23-day delay in providing end-users the patch? > > I don't know the specifics of this one but kernel updates are > generally kind of a mess and in this case we're talking about an issue > that basically boils down to a DoS for internet-facing hosts and for > which there existed a mitigation. I'm personally not too concerned > about the timeline. Right. Debian kernel updates can only be applied with a reboot. If we publish a kernel update, its mere availability may put some of our users out of compliance with their policies, which is why we batch these updates.
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| From | Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-19 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <su0vw-2D0-43@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5063 |
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016, at 18:21, Florian Weimer wrote: > Right. Debian kernel updates can only be applied with a reboot. If > we publish a kernel update, its mere availability may put some of our > users out of compliance with their policies, which is why we batch > these updates. Is this correct? Really? -- Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@thangorodrim.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-20 01:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <su807-7Cg-39@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5064 |
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:51:06PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016, at 18:21, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > Right. Debian kernel updates can only be applied with a reboot. If
> > we publish a kernel update, its mere availability may put some of our
> > users out of compliance with their policies, which is why we batch
> > these updates.
>
> Is this correct? Really?
Well, in certain environments I would not be surprised by a security policy
that boils down to: "If a security patch from [authorized source] becomes
available, it must be applied to all applicable systems within [short time]."
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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| From | Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-20 02:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <su9yN-fu-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5065 |
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 20:32, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:51:06PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh > wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016, at 18:21, Florian Weimer wrote: > > > Right. Debian kernel updates can only be applied with a reboot. If > > > we publish a kernel update, its mere availability may put some of our > > > users out of compliance with their policies, which is why we batch > > > these updates. > > > > Is this correct? Really? > > Well, in certain environments I would not be surprised by a security > policy > that boils down to: "If a security patch from [authorized source] becomes > available, it must be applied to all applicable systems within [short > time]." I was asking about the kernel team's policy. I could care less for the policies of "certain environments", they are NOT likely to be a problem: any remotely sane site with a policy that enforces a deadline to install security updates (including reboots) will also have policies on scheduling the required maintenance window for such updates, *including* what to do when the maintenance window can't be scheduled to avoid SLA violations. And that's for environments where you can't just do staggered updates, taking a set of nodes offline to update and regression-test, and bring them back to production (or rollback/abort the update should a regression be detected) without much (if any) impact to services. -- Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>
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| From | Moritz Muehlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-12 22:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srytH-10O-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5057 |
On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 10:43:41AM -0000, te3d4q@sigaint.org wrote:
> > We look at the vulnerabilities and make an assessment.
> > Cheers,
> > Moritz
> >
>
> 1. If I understood correctly the contents of your reply, on what basis
> does the Debian security team assess the severity of each security
> vulnerability? What are those criteria?
Human judgement based on experience.
> 2. Your latest reply implies strongly the possibility of the Debian
> security team's assessments of security vulnerabilities differing from
> those of the security teams of other popular Linux distros such as Gentoo,
> Kali, ArchLinux, Ubuntu, etc. Am I correct?
Of course, every distribution makes their own assessment. After
all each distro might ship an affected codebase in different
versions/configs/environments.
Cheers,
Moritz
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| From | te3d4q@sigaint.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Vulnerabilities rated medium or low risk may not be fixed by Debian security team, is that correct? |
| Message-ID | <srPux-4ML-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #5059 |
> Of course, every distribution makes their own assessment. After > all each distro might ship an affected codebase in different > versions/configs/environments. > > Cheers, > Moritz > Hi Moritz I appreciate the time and effort that you spent on clarifying my questions. Thank you.
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