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Re: Debian sever ties with Google?

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Quoting Roberto C. Sánchez (2025-01-31 20:33:39)
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 02:25:19PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> >    On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 at 13:08, Roberto C. Sánchez <[1]roberto@debian.org>
> >    wrote:
> > 
> >      Since we as a project have left Twitter/X (as recently announced by our
> >      Publicity Team) on the basis of "We do not want to be present in a place
> >      where we cannot ensure that users will be respected and where abuse
> >      happens without consequences" [0] [1], I would like start a discussion
> >      about how we as a project can promptly sever ties with Google.
> > 
> >    Full disclosure: I am currently employed by Google, and do not speak for
> >    the company.
> >    DFSG #6 discusses not discriminating against fields of endeavour.
> >    I can see the project wishing to cut ties with a social media platform
> >    that is unable to ensure a minimum level of civil discourse. I'm not
> >    seeing how this is even remotely equivalent to disengaging from a
> >    corporate sponsor because of their commercial practices?
> >    regards
> >    Andrew
> > 
> The formula I am applying here is directly:
> 
> "We do not want to be present in a place where we cannot ensure that
> users will be respected and where abuse happens without consequences."
> 
> "We [Debian] do not want to be present in a place [on Twitter/X] where
> we cannot ensure that users will be respected and where abuse happens
> [causing certain people to feel unsafe] without consequences
> [moderation/banning]."
> 
> It seems quite natural, then, that this follows:
> 
> "We [Debian] do not want to be present in a place [Google Cloud Platform
> and other Google services] where we cannot ensure that users will be
> respected and where abuse happens [directly assisting the US government
> to prepare and execute missions that result in unconscionable civilian
> casualties] without consequences [legal reprecussions]."
> 
> If the former results in leaving a social media platform, then the
> latter should result in at least the same (leaving the platform and
> services) and, I would argue, also calls for terminating the sponsor
> relationship. To do otherwise would be to tacitly endorse things that
> are objectively far worse than things we have *already* publicly stated
> as a project we find reprehensible.

I think these are different things.

Debian participating as a community at certain communication platforms
is one thing.

Debian partnering with organisation for processing our data and code is
another thing.

Personally I would prefer if we would only partner with ecologically and
socially sustainable organisations, but I doubt that we could agree on
that, because that is most likely economically far more expensive than
how we currently choose to handle things.

I am happy that you raise this question, but I think your argumentation
is weak, because you try make it a community issue.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Debian sever ties with Google? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 04:10 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Andrew Pollock <apollock@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 06:30 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 15:20 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 21:30 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
        Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2025-02-01 20:30 +0100
          Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 23:00 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? dovencio.doshorte@gmail.com - 2025-02-01 14:20 +0100
        Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "Jeffrey Anthony Serio" <hyperreal@moonshadow.dev> - 2025-02-01 17:50 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Emmanuel Arias <eamanu@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 23:00 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-01-31 15:40 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 20:30 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 20:30 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2025-02-02 14:10 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2025-02-06 12:50 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? thomas@goirand.fr - 2025-02-06 16:40 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Satvik Sinha <sinhasatvik214@gmail.com> - 2025-02-06 18:10 +0100
        Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2025-02-06 18:50 +0100
          Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 02:00 +0100
            Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-07 03:00 +0100
              Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 03:30 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? dovencio.doshorte@gmail.com - 2025-02-07 08:50 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 12:00 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? dovencio.doshorte@gmail.com - 2025-02-08 08:20 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-07 08:50 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2025-02-07 03:00 +0100

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