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Re: Debian sever ties with Google?

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Hi all,

I'm employed by Google, but I don't speak on Google's behalf, but:

On 2025-01-31 14:33:39, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 02:25:19PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> >    On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 at 13:08, Roberto C. Sánchez <[1]roberto@debian.org>
> >    wrote:
> > 
> >      Since we as a project have left Twitter/X (as recently announced by our
> >      Publicity Team) on the basis of "We do not want to be present in a place
> >      where we cannot ensure that users will be respected and where abuse
> >      happens without consequences" [0] [1], I would like start a discussion
> >      about how we as a project can promptly sever ties with Google.
> > 
> >    Full disclosure: I am currently employed by Google, and do not speak for
> >    the company.
> >    DFSG #6 discusses not discriminating against fields of endeavour.
> >    I can see the project wishing to cut ties with a social media platform
> >    that is unable to ensure a minimum level of civil discourse. I'm not
> >    seeing how this is even remotely equivalent to disengaging from a
> >    corporate sponsor because of their commercial practices?
> >    regards
> >    Andrew
> > 
> The formula I am applying here is directly:
> 
> "We do not want to be present in a place where we cannot ensure that
> users will be respected and where abuse happens without consequences."
> 
> "We [Debian] do not want to be present in a place [on Twitter/X] where
> we cannot ensure that users will be respected and where abuse happens
> [causing certain people to feel unsafe] without consequences
> [moderation/banning]."
> 
> It seems quite natural, then, that this follows:
> 
> "We [Debian] do not want to be present in a place [Google Cloud Platform
> and other Google services] where we cannot ensure that users will be
> respected and where abuse happens [directly assisting the US government
> to prepare and execute missions that result in unconscionable civilian
> casualties] without consequences [legal reprecussions]."

This makes no sense to me.

What relation is there between Debian using Google's services/money, and
the US government? How would Debian using $1 of Google money would be
related to anything that "a user" would do, or that the US government
would do? If Debian uses for example CI services hosted on GCP, how is
"a user" be affected by whatever the US government does?

There are countries in this world that do not respect human rights.
Should we, then, restrict our social contract to prevent Debian's use in
those countries, because "users" could be harmed by those governments?

To me this all smells of communism and cancellation. Either as malicous
intent, or as very naive intent, as if in this world there are "good"
and "bad" people/organisations, and there's a clear line between them,
and the desire to be ideologically pure.

Debian as a whole will do whatever Debian decides, but man, this sounds
off to me. Maybe because I've lived under communism, so I'm more
sensitive to that evil than to whatever-you-think-the-US-government-is.

regards,
iustin

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Thread

Debian sever ties with Google? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 04:10 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Andrew Pollock <apollock@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 06:30 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 15:20 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 21:30 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
        Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2025-02-01 20:30 +0100
          Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 23:00 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? dovencio.doshorte@gmail.com - 2025-02-01 14:20 +0100
        Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "Jeffrey Anthony Serio" <hyperreal@moonshadow.dev> - 2025-02-01 17:50 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Emmanuel Arias <eamanu@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 23:00 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-01-31 15:40 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 20:30 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2025-02-01 20:30 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2025-02-02 14:10 +0100
  Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2025-02-06 12:50 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? thomas@goirand.fr - 2025-02-06 16:40 +0100
      Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Satvik Sinha <sinhasatvik214@gmail.com> - 2025-02-06 18:10 +0100
        Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2025-02-06 18:50 +0100
          Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 02:00 +0100
            Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-07 03:00 +0100
              Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 03:30 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? dovencio.doshorte@gmail.com - 2025-02-07 08:50 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 12:00 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? dovencio.doshorte@gmail.com - 2025-02-08 08:20 +0100
                Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-07 08:50 +0100
    Re: Debian sever ties with Google? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2025-02-07 03:00 +0100

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