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Groups > linux.debian.devel > #113480

Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie

From Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.devel
Subject Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie
Date 2024-09-23 14:50 +0200
Message-ID <JpQFP-ehyM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <JoJQ7-dBrt-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <Jps0O-e2M3-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <JpP73-egNv-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
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* Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> [240923 07:05]:
> As described in the "Proposal" section and first answer of the FAQ, it's all
> about consistency.
> 
> There seems to be a tendency for moving towards a hybrid stack, using
> sd-networkd and NetworkManager in different contexts/use-cases. But having
> fragmented ways of doing network configuration provides bad UX, as it can
> confuse users, who first need to understand what sortf of Debian they are
> using, before looking for solutions.
> 
> Netplan solves this and allows for providing common solution that work
> across the system.

If we had a single network stack that provided a good user interface for
all use cases, that would be great, but we don't anymore (ifupdown used
to be that, a long time ago, which is one of the reasons it is still
around).

Adding a "compatibility layer" that gives a common user interface on top
of multiple different network stacks does not make sense.  The people
that _might_ benefit from this fall into two basic categories:  novices
and the people who need to configure networking on many different
systems.

Novices are going to accept the default network stack on a desktop
system.  They are unlikely to care about networking on any system other
than ones with a desktop installed, and they are only going to use the
GUI provided by the desktop system.  They will completely ignore the
"compatibility layer".  If they are forced to use a system without their
favorite GUI network widget installed, they will have to learn a second
network stack, whether it is another "native" stack or the
"compatibility layer".  _No benefit!_

People who need to configure networking on many different systems need
to learn multiple network stacks, period.  Having the "compatibility
layer" as a default, rather than a forced mandatory, means that enough
people with more than a beginner's knowledge of networking are going to
choose the stack more suited to the purpose of their particular
installation, uninstalling or ignoring the "compatibility layer", to
make it necessary for anyone doing networking on a variety of systems to
learn multiple stacks.  Adding one more _unnecessary_ "compatibility
layer" is just one more stack to learn.  _No benefit!_

I think you realize what would happen if you proposed making netplan a
"forced mandatory" compatibility layer!

Please, can we drop this proposal and this thread?

...Marvin

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Thread

proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-20 13:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-20 15:50 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Bill MacAllister <bill@ca-zephyr.org> - 2024-09-20 22:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 12:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-09-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 13:50 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 16:50 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-09-22 17:20 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Hakan Bayındır <hakan@bayindir.org> - 2024-09-22 23:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2024-09-22 20:10 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Andrea Pappacoda" <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2024-09-22 22:40 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2024-09-23 00:10 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:40 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-23 14:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-09-23 14:50 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 15:00 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Daniel Baumann <daniel@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 08:10 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 14:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 16:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:50 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 13:20 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Richard Lewis <richard.lewis.debian@googlemail.com> - 2024-09-23 13:40 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 15:40 +0200
              Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 10:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-09-23 14:20 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 20:20 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 21:10 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-22 17:50 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2024-09-22 23:50 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-23 08:30 +0200
        ifupdown-ng source stanza (Was: proposal: Hybrid network stack for  Trixie) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 11:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown-ng source stanza (Was: proposal: Hybrid network stack  for Trixie) Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-24 13:40 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 10:10 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 10:20 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 10:30 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-23 11:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 12:10 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 11:40 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
      ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 13:50 +0200
        Re: ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 17:50 +0200
          Re: ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Noah Meyerhans <noahm@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 00:20 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 10:50 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org> - 2024-10-07 18:30 +0200

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