Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie

From	Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie
Date	2024-09-24 15:40 +0200
Message-ID	<JqdVL-evY0-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <JpvL3-e50N-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <JpOum-eglq-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <JpONH-egrX-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <JpPgK-egQR-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <JpPA5-egWL-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 23.09.24 13:33, Richard Lewis wrote:
> Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> writes:
>> On 23.09.24 12:27, Ansgar 🙀 wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2024-09-23 at 12:22 +0200, Lukas Märdian wrote:
>>>> On 22.09.24 15:58, Ansgar 🙀 wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 2024-09-20 at 13:12 +0200, Lukas Märdian wrote:
> 
>>>> The benefit that Netplan would provide in such cases is that
>>>> debian-installer
>>>> installs a /etc/netplan/01-network-manager-all.yaml config file, reading:
>>>>
>>>> network:
>>>>      version: 2
>>>>      renderer: NetworkManager
>>> So on desktop installations including NetworkManager, netplan will
>>> be
>>> configured to do nothing? Why install netplan at all on desktop systems
>>> then?
>>
>> Because it allows to add configuration in a way that is common with
>> server, cloud
>> and other instances of Debian
> 
> 
> Could you give an example of why this is useful to unify?
> 
> For example: is there a scenario in which someone is using
> systemd-networkd but then finds they need to do X, which they cant
> essily do using systend but which nm support is better--- therefore if
> they are using netplan they can simply install network-manager, change a
> netplan setting and gain X with no need to understand the differences
> between the network-manager and systemd configuration languages?

My ideas was not so much about switching from one networking daemon to another.
In most cases users will probably stick to the network stack of their chosen
environment. With systemd-networkd and NetworkManager being good candidates for
their corresponding scenarios.

But knowledge builds up over the years in our community and spreads around forums,
stack overflow, etc.

Those are the places where we figure out "How to setup a bond on Debian?",
"How to connect a headless embedded board to the WiFi network" or "How to change
the embedded-switch mode on SR-IOV physical functions?". We find solutions and
help each other out, which is great!

But with fragmented network-configuration tooling those solutions will not work
in many cases, as they depend on a specific context of the base-image in use
(e.g. server vs desktop vs embedded vs cloud).

With Netplan I'm hoping to avoid such frustration by providing a way to configure
the network that works independently of the base-image context. Of course without
forcing people to use it or impacting the lower layer to be configured directly.

-- Lukas

Thread

proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-20 13:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-20 15:50 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Bill MacAllister <bill@ca-zephyr.org> - 2024-09-20 22:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 12:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-09-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 13:50 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 16:50 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-09-22 17:20 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Hakan Bayındır <hakan@bayindir.org> - 2024-09-22 23:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2024-09-22 20:10 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Andrea Pappacoda" <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2024-09-22 22:40 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2024-09-23 00:10 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:40 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-23 14:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-09-23 14:50 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 15:00 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Daniel Baumann <daniel@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 08:10 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 14:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 16:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:50 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 13:20 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Richard Lewis <richard.lewis.debian@googlemail.com> - 2024-09-23 13:40 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 15:40 +0200
              Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 10:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-09-23 14:20 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 20:20 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 21:10 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-22 17:50 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2024-09-22 23:50 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-23 08:30 +0200
        ifupdown-ng source stanza (Was: proposal: Hybrid network stack for  Trixie) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 11:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown-ng source stanza (Was: proposal: Hybrid network stack  for Trixie) Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-24 13:40 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 10:10 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 10:20 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 10:30 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-23 11:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 12:10 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 11:40 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
      ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 13:50 +0200
        Re: ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 17:50 +0200
          Re: ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Noah Meyerhans <noahm@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 00:20 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 10:50 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org> - 2024-10-07 18:30 +0200

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