Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie

From	Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie
Date	2024-09-22 20:10 +0200
Message-ID	<JpzbX-e79A-11@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<JpsDw-e3eT-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

Show all headers | View raw

Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 at 12:22:50 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:
> > d-i could make (or offer) a choice between networkd and
> > NetworkManager.
>
> d-i *already* makes a choice between ifupdown and NetworkManager: if
> NM has been pulled in by a task's dependencies (e.g. this happens when
> you install the GNOME or KDE desktop, among others), it writes out NM
> config, else it writes out ifupdown config. I believe a 1:1 replacement
> of ifupdown with networkd in the packages and configuration provided by
> new installations would do what I think you're proposing.

There's one other desirable feature that would make this a robust
solution: having NetworkManager do something to handle or ignore
interfaces managed by networkd.

Currently, NetworkManager has a plugin for ifupdown; it doesn't allow NM
to *manage* interfaces handled by ifupdown (other than bringing them up
or down), but it's enough to ensure that NM doesn't disrupt
ifupdown-managed networking. (That's important, for instance, to make
sure that installing NetworkManager doesn't abruptly disrupt the
network mid-install.)

I am *not* suggesting that a prerequisite would be any kind of *full*
integration with networkd that allows NM to meaningfully configure it.
I'm suggesting that, with systemd-networkd installed and managing some
interfaces, installing NetworkManager should not touch those interfaces
in any way. (Ideally, NM guis would also give some indication of "you
might want to remove the networkd configuration if you want NM to manage
these interfaces, such as automatically switching between wired and
wireless".)

Apart from that, +1 for the plan of choosing between networkd and
NetworkManager, and *not* introducing any layer of indirection. The
primary point of NetworkManager is to support its
management/configuration GUIs, so we *especially* shouldn't have a layer
of indirection that doesn't treat the GUI-based configuration as
primary.

Thread

proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-20 13:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-20 15:50 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Bill MacAllister <bill@ca-zephyr.org> - 2024-09-20 22:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 12:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-09-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 13:50 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 16:50 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-09-22 17:20 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Hakan Bayındır <hakan@bayindir.org> - 2024-09-22 23:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2024-09-22 20:10 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie "Andrea Pappacoda" <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2024-09-22 22:40 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2024-09-23 00:10 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:40 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 13:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-23 14:10 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-09-23 14:50 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 15:00 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Daniel Baumann <daniel@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 08:10 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 14:20 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-22 16:30 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:50 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 13:20 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Richard Lewis <richard.lewis.debian@googlemail.com> - 2024-09-23 13:40 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 15:40 +0200
              Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 10:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-09-23 14:20 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 20:20 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2024-09-27 21:10 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-22 17:50 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2024-09-22 23:50 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-23 08:30 +0200
        ifupdown-ng source stanza (Was: proposal: Hybrid network stack for  Trixie) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 11:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown-ng source stanza (Was: proposal: Hybrid network stack  for Trixie) Sirius <sirius@trudheim.com> - 2024-09-24 13:40 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 10:10 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 10:20 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 10:30 +0200
        Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-09-23 11:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:10 +0200
          Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-09-23 12:10 +0200
            Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 11:40 +0200
    Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 12:30 +0200
      ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 13:50 +0200
        Re: ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2024-09-23 17:50 +0200
          Re: ifupdown behaviour with IPv6 DAD failure (Was: proposal: Hybrid  network stack for Trixie) Noah Meyerhans <noahm@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 00:20 +0200
      Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-09-24 10:50 +0200
  Re: proposal: Hybrid network stack for Trixie Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org> - 2024-10-07 18:30 +0200

csiph-web