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Groups > ger.ct > #307268

Re: Told you so

From Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com>
Newsgroups ger.ct
Subject Re: Told you so
Date 2017-04-29 16:42 +0200
Message-ID <emjn1vFbenfU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <oe0cue$on9$1@news.albasani.net> <emhufdF1c29U1@mid.individual.net> <oe1cvp$oeq$2@news.albasani.net> <emiunmF6q4hU1@mid.individual.net> <oe1kjv$4qa$1@news.albasani.net>

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Am 29.04.2017 um 10:58 schrieb Dr. Joachim Neudert:

> Irgendwie tut ihnen die Sache finanziell jedenfalls weh. Es sind die
> Fluggesellschaften die so dahinter sind, nicht die Flugaufsicht.

Beides falsch.

http://www.bdl.aero/de/themen-positionen/sicherheit/cockpit-zugang/

"Die EASA hat die Erfahrungen mit der Zwei-Personen-Regelung im Cockpit 
evaluiert [...] und im Ergebnis im Juli 2016 vorgeschlagen, auf Basis 
der Durchführung eines Risk-Assessments und der Prüfung zusätzlicher 
Maßnahmen die bisherige Zwei-Personen-Regelung durch folgende Regeln zu 
ersetzen: [...]"

"Die Flugbetriebe der BDL-Fluggesellschaften haben jeweils ein 
entsprechendes Risk-Assessment durchgeführt. Diese Risk-Assessments 
haben unabhängig voneinander ergeben: [...]"

"Vor diesem Hintergrund soll die Zwei-Personen-Regelung bis zum 1. Juni 
2017 durch die ursprüngliche Zugangsregelung ersetzt werden."

Der Ansatz "follow the money" ist gut. Monetäres Interesse für die 
Änderung ist nicht erkennbar: Einfach die Saftschubse ins Cockpit zu 
lassen kostet nichts, die neuen Regelungen mit psychologischen 
Untersuchungen und Stichprobenkontrollen aber schon. Wenn beide Seiten 
also gerne den teureren Ansatz hätten, dann wird wohl was dran sein.

Joachim, du hast dich da verrannt. Laß es einfach.

Hanno

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Thread

Told you so (was: Re: Flug 9525: Das iPhone war's) Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-28 22:04 +0200
  Re: Told you so (was: Re: Flug 9525: Das iPhone war's) Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 20:18 +0000
    Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-28 22:32 +0200
      Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:11 +0200
        Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-28 23:36 +0200
          Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:48 +0200
            Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-29 00:00 +0200
            Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 00:06 +0200
              Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 06:03 +0000
        Re: Told you so Ruediger Lahl <ruediger.lahl@gmx.de> - 2017-04-29 00:33 +0200
    Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-28 23:30 +0200
      Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:50 +0200
        Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 00:16 +0200
  Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-28 23:26 +0200
    Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-28 21:37 +0000
    Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:41 +0200
      Re: Told you so Heiner Hass <heinerh@gmx.net> - 2017-04-28 23:59 +0200
      Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 00:36 +0200
        Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 08:35 +0200
        Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 08:48 +0200
          Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 09:47 +0200
            Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 08:58 +0000
              Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-04-29 12:19 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 10:47 +0000
                Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-04-29 14:32 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 12:57 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerald Gruner <gerald314@yahoo.de> - 2017-04-29 14:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:22 -0700
                Re: Told you so Holger Marzen <holger@marzen.de> - 2017-04-30 07:32 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 04:36 -0700
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-29 16:08 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 16:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-29 16:46 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 15:02 +0000
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-29 17:25 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:12 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-04-30 08:12 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-30 09:35 +0200
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-30 07:46 +0000
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-30 10:11 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 04:43 -0700
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-30 09:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-30 08:02 +0000
                Re: Told you so spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2017-05-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-04 12:34 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-04 12:47 +0200
                Re: Told you so Fidel-Sebastian Hunrichse-Lara <Fidel-Sebastian_Hunrichse-Lara@b.maus.de> - 2017-05-04 18:29 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-04 17:22 +0000
                Re: Told you so Bernd Ullrich <ullrich_bernd@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-04 19:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-04-30 12:26 +0000
                Re: Told you so spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2017-05-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Hartmut Ott <hottm@arcor.de> - 2017-04-30 15:08 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 11:43 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 11:57 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 12:07 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 03:18 -0700
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 12:23 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 03:37 -0700
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 12:59 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 13:54 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 14:03 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 14:15 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 14:25 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 14:47 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 14:58 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 15:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:27 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:56 +0200
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 20:53 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-05 07:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 20:55 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-05 07:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-05 09:50 +0000
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-05 16:32 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-05 15:04 +0000
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 22:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 14:16 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 05:32 -0700
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 14:35 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-02 19:12 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 19:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 19:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang  Εnzinger <we_usenet@nurfuerspam.de> - 2017-05-03 10:31 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-03 17:29 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 19:18 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-03 19:34 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-04 00:00 -0700
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 21:14 +0000
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 21:08 +0000
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-05 06:10 +0000
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 19:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 12:55 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-03 11:09 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 04:33 -0700
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 12:44 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:03 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:43 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:53 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 16:42 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 16:49 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 17:43 +0200
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 15:58 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 19:17 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang  Εnzinger <we_usenet@nurfuerspam.de> - 2017-05-01 19:45 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 16:46 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 17:18 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 19:42 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 19:49 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 22:30 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-03 09:11 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 12:55 +0200
                Re: Told you so Fidel-Sebastian Hunrichse-Lara <Fidel-Sebastian_Hunrichse-Lara@b.maus.de> - 2017-05-04 18:35 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang  Εnzinger <we_usenet@nurfuerspam.de> - 2017-05-03 10:31 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 18:15 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 18:19 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 18:31 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 18:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 19:10 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 19:19 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 19:03 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 16:53 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:51 +0000
                Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-05-01 15:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 16:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 18:18 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:53 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 16:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:40 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:58 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 16:04 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 14:21 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:59 +0000
                Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-05-01 16:07 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 14:28 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 17:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 16:25 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 22:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:02 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:34 -0700
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 12:41 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-01 13:01 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:09 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 15:54 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:57 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 16:28 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 16:05 +0200
                Re: Told you so Matthias Eißing <meissing@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:25 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 14:30 +0000
                Re: Told you so Matthias Eißing <meissing@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:41 +0000
                Re: Told you so "Alex S." <alexs.nospam@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 14:33 +0000
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-01 19:06 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 21:11 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 22:22 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:42 -0700
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-02 05:22 +0000
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 12:23 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 12:57 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 13:30 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:04 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 21:54 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 03:15 -0700
                Re: Told you so Siegfried Blos <Siegfried.Blos@siemens.com> - 2017-05-05 10:29 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 11:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:13 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Alex S." <alexs.nospam@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 14:33 +0000
                Re: Told you so spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2017-05-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:15 -0700
              Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-29 16:42 +0200
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 14:46 +0000
            Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 11:26 +0200
              Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 12:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 12:53 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 13:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-05-01 13:37 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 13:43 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-05-01 13:58 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 14:52 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 22:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Alex S." <alexs.nospam@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 14:33 +0000
    Re: Told you so Gerald Gruner <gerald314@yahoo.de> - 2017-04-29 14:51 +0200
      Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:12 +0200
  Re: Told you so (was: Re: Flug 9525: Das iPhone war's) Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-04-29 12:10 +0200
    Re: Told you so Michael Zink <michael@swamp.franken.de> - 2017-04-30 09:27 +0200

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