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Re: Told you so

From Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com>
Newsgroups ger.ct
Subject Re: Told you so
Date 2017-04-28 23:36 +0200
Message-ID <emhqvaFnl3U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <mf9jan$u8$1@news.albasani.net> <emhlikFu621U1@mid.individual.net> <oe081t$68c$1@news.albasani.net> <emhn72FfqU1@mid.individual.net> <oe0b6p$stm$1@news.albasani.net>

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Am 28.04.2017 um 23:11 schrieb Dr. Joachim Neudert:

> Das Vier-Augen-Prinzip.

Kennst du den Unterschied zwischen einer Und- und einer 
Oder-Verknüpfung? Offenbar nicht.

Das Vier-Augen-Prinzip hilft dann, wenn du beide Personen zur 
Entscheidung brauchst, also eine Person etwas verhindern kann. Das ist 
eine Und-Verknüpfung.

Wenn jede Person im Cockpit das Flugzeug zum Absturz bringen kann, ist 
das eine Oder-Verknüpfung. Und dann erhöht jede weitere Person, die im 
Cockpit ist, bzw. sein muß, das Risiko. Insbesondere, wenn sie mangels 
Qualifikation (Saftschubse kann kein Flugzeug steuern) nicht mal 
theoretisch was verhindern könnte.

> In den USA mussten sowohl der Commanding Officer als auch der Executive
> Officer den Befehl zum Einsatz von Atomwaffen authentifizieren, auf
> sowjetischen U-Booten übernahmen diese Aufgabe der Kommandant und der
> Politoffizier.

Das ist eine Und-Verknüpfung. Du brauchst aber nicht zwei Leute, um ein 
Flugzeug zum Absturz zu bringen.

> Aber in der kommerziellen europäischen Zivil-Luftfahrt?
>
> "Naah... ein zweiter Mann erhöht doch nur das Risiko, daß ein
> Krimineller oder Verrückter im Cockpit drin ist".

Das ist eine Oder-Verknüpfung, da zwei Sekunden reichen, das Flugzeug 
unwiederbringlich zum Absturz zu bringen, was jeder der Anwesenden 
veranlassen, und der andere nichts dagegen tun kann.

Du siehst den Unterschied? (OK, sorry, rhetorische Frage.)

Hanno

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Thread

Told you so (was: Re: Flug 9525: Das iPhone war's) Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-28 22:04 +0200
  Re: Told you so (was: Re: Flug 9525: Das iPhone war's) Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 20:18 +0000
    Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-28 22:32 +0200
      Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:11 +0200
        Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-28 23:36 +0200
          Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:48 +0200
            Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-29 00:00 +0200
            Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 00:06 +0200
              Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 06:03 +0000
        Re: Told you so Ruediger Lahl <ruediger.lahl@gmx.de> - 2017-04-29 00:33 +0200
    Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-28 23:30 +0200
      Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:50 +0200
        Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 00:16 +0200
  Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-28 23:26 +0200
    Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-28 21:37 +0000
    Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-28 23:41 +0200
      Re: Told you so Heiner Hass <heinerh@gmx.net> - 2017-04-28 23:59 +0200
      Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 00:36 +0200
        Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 08:35 +0200
        Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 08:48 +0200
          Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 09:47 +0200
            Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 08:58 +0000
              Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-04-29 12:19 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 10:47 +0000
                Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-04-29 14:32 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 12:57 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerald Gruner <gerald314@yahoo.de> - 2017-04-29 14:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:22 -0700
                Re: Told you so Holger Marzen <holger@marzen.de> - 2017-04-30 07:32 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 04:36 -0700
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-29 16:08 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-29 16:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-29 16:46 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-29 15:02 +0000
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-29 17:25 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:12 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-04-30 08:12 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-30 09:35 +0200
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-30 07:46 +0000
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-04-30 10:11 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 04:43 -0700
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-04-30 09:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-04-30 08:02 +0000
                Re: Told you so spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2017-05-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-04 12:34 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-04 12:47 +0200
                Re: Told you so Fidel-Sebastian Hunrichse-Lara <Fidel-Sebastian_Hunrichse-Lara@b.maus.de> - 2017-05-04 18:29 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-04 17:22 +0000
                Re: Told you so Bernd Ullrich <ullrich_bernd@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-04 19:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-04-30 12:26 +0000
                Re: Told you so spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2017-05-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Hartmut Ott <hottm@arcor.de> - 2017-04-30 15:08 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 11:43 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 11:57 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 12:07 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 03:18 -0700
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 12:23 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 03:37 -0700
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 12:59 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 13:54 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 14:03 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 14:15 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 14:25 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 14:47 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 14:58 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 15:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:27 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:56 +0200
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 20:53 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-05 07:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 20:55 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-05 07:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-05 09:50 +0000
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-05 16:32 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-05 15:04 +0000
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 22:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 14:16 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 05:32 -0700
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 14:35 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-02 19:12 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 19:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 19:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang  Εnzinger <we_usenet@nurfuerspam.de> - 2017-05-03 10:31 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-03 17:29 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 19:18 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-03 19:34 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-04 00:00 -0700
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 21:14 +0000
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-04 21:08 +0000
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-05 06:10 +0000
                Re: Told you so v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 19:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 12:55 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-03 11:09 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 04:33 -0700
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 12:44 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:03 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:43 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:53 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 16:42 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 16:49 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 17:43 +0200
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 15:58 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 19:17 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang  Εnzinger <we_usenet@nurfuerspam.de> - 2017-05-01 19:45 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 16:46 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 17:18 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 19:42 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-02 19:49 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-02 22:30 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-03 09:11 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-03 12:55 +0200
                Re: Told you so Fidel-Sebastian Hunrichse-Lara <Fidel-Sebastian_Hunrichse-Lara@b.maus.de> - 2017-05-04 18:35 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang  Εnzinger <we_usenet@nurfuerspam.de> - 2017-05-03 10:31 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 18:15 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 18:19 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 18:31 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 18:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 19:10 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 19:19 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 19:03 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 16:53 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:51 +0000
                Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-05-01 15:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 16:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Ricardo Szabo <usenet13@rickszabo.de> - 2017-05-01 18:18 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:53 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-01 16:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:40 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:51 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:58 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 16:04 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 14:21 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 13:59 +0000
                Re: Told you so Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-05-01 16:07 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 14:28 +0000
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 17:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 16:25 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 22:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:02 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:34 -0700
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 12:41 +0200
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-01 13:01 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:09 +0200
                Re: Told you so Diedrich Ehlerding <diedrich.ehlerding@t-online.de> - 2017-05-01 15:54 +0200
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 15:57 +0200
                Re: Told you so Wolfgang Kynast <wky@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 16:28 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 16:05 +0200
                Re: Told you so Matthias Eißing <meissing@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:25 +0000
                Re: Told you so Lars Gebauer <lars.gebauer@yahoo.de> - 2017-05-01 14:30 +0000
                Re: Told you so Matthias Eißing <meissing@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:41 +0000
                Re: Told you so "Alex S." <alexs.nospam@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 14:33 +0000
                Re: Told you so Stefan+Usenet@Froehlich.Priv.at (Stefan Froehlich) - 2017-05-01 19:06 +0000
                Re: Told you so Gerrit Heitsch <gerrit@laosinh.s.bawue.de> - 2017-05-01 21:11 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 22:22 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:42 -0700
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-05-02 05:22 +0000
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 12:23 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 12:57 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 13:30 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:04 +0200
                Re: Told you so Jörg Tewes <jogi1964@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 21:54 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 03:15 -0700
                Re: Told you so Siegfried Blos <Siegfried.Blos@siemens.com> - 2017-05-05 10:29 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 11:39 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 14:50 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 15:13 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Alex S." <alexs.nospam@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 14:33 +0000
                Re: Told you so spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2017-05-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Lothar Frings <Lothar.Frings@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:15 -0700
              Re: Told you so Hanno Foest <hurga-news2@tigress.com> - 2017-04-29 16:42 +0200
                Re: Told you so Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2017-04-29 14:46 +0000
            Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 11:26 +0200
              Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 12:20 +0200
                Re: Told you so Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 12:53 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 13:40 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-05-01 13:37 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 13:43 +0200
                Re: Told you so Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2017-05-01 13:58 +0200
                Re: Told you so Peter Mc Donough <mcd-mail-lists@gmx.net> - 2017-05-01 14:52 +0200
                Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-05-01 22:38 +0200
                Re: Told you so "Alex S." <alexs.nospam@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 14:33 +0000
    Re: Told you so Gerald Gruner <gerald314@yahoo.de> - 2017-04-29 14:51 +0200
      Re: Told you so Martin Gerdes <martin.gerdes@gmx.de> - 2017-04-30 00:12 +0200
  Re: Told you so (was: Re: Flug 9525: Das iPhone war's) Dietz Proepper <dietz-news@rotfl.franken.de> - 2017-04-29 12:10 +0200
    Re: Told you so Michael Zink <michael@swamp.franken.de> - 2017-04-30 09:27 +0200

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