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DIN standards for reading?

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  DIN standards for reading? DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-11-17 19:59 -0800
    Re: DIN standards for reading? Izur Kockenhan <charly020664@yahoo.de> - 2015-11-18 05:12 +0100
      Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-18 00:20 -0800
    Re: DIN standards for reading? Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2015-11-17 23:41 -0500
      Re: DIN standards for reading? Sebastian Suchanek <sebastian.suchanek@gmx.de> - 2015-11-18 07:00 +0100
        Re: DIN standards for reading? Christian Zietz <newsgroup.1001@chz.xyz> - 2015-11-18 08:27 +0100
    Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-17 23:10 -0800
    Re: DIN standards for reading? legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2015-11-18 15:55 -0500
      Re: DIN standards for reading? DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-11-19 08:38 -0800
        Re: DIN standards for reading? "Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-19 12:07 -0500
          Re: DIN standards for reading? DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-11-19 09:22 -0800
            Re: DIN standards for reading? "Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-19 12:53 -0500
          Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-19 09:41 -0800
          Re: DIN standards for reading? Waldemar <waldemar@zedat.fu-berlin.de> - 2015-11-24 17:01 +0100
            Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-25 04:48 -0800
              Re: DIN standards for reading? Waldemar <waldemar@zedat.fu-berlin.de> - 2015-11-26 11:55 +0100
                Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-26 10:18 -0800
                  Re: DIN standards for reading? Axel_Berger@b.maus.de (Axel Berger) - 2015-11-27 11:48 +0100
                    Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-28 05:45 -0800
        Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-19 09:45 -0800
        Re: DIN standards for reading? w-buechsenschuetz@web.de - 2015-11-19 09:58 -0800

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#196213 — DIN standards for reading?

Wikipedia lists DIN standards but has only a brief description:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DIN_standards

Are the DIN standards on-line for reading&perusing (and, in my case, 
translating)?

Thanks.

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#196214

Am 18.11.2015 um 04:59 schrieb DaveC:
> Wikipedia lists DIN standards but has only a brief description:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DIN_standards
>
> Are the DIN standards on-line for reading&perusing (and, in my case,
> translating)?
>
> Thanks.
>

Publishing house BEUTH has monopol for DIN standards in Germany. You can 
watch them at Universities. I didn't find it online.

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#196229

X-No-archive: Yes

Am Mittwoch, 18. November 2015 05:11:59 UTC+1 schrieb Izur Kockenhan:

> Publishing house BEUTH has monopol for DIN standards in Germany. You can 
> watch them at Universities. I didn't find it online.

Even if you are allowed to print out or download DIN standards at universities, you are not allowed to use these copies for commercial purposes. 

Our company had to spend at least 1000EUR or even more for a couple of standards we need for work. 

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#196215

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:59:21 -0800, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

>Wikipedia lists DIN standards but has only a brief description:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DIN_standards
>
>Are the DIN standards on-line for reading&perusing (and, in my case, 
>translating)?
>
>Thanks.

Maybe a brief description. But you need to purchase the ISO from ANSI
or other provider.
I've never found a DIN standard freely availble.

Cheers

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#196217

Am 18.11.2015 um 05:41 schrieb Martin Riddle:
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:59:21 -0800, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:
> 
>>[...]
>>Are the DIN standards on-line for reading&perusing (and, in my case, 
>>translating)?
> 
> Maybe a brief description. But you need to purchase the ISO from ANSI
> or other provider.
> I've never found a DIN standard freely availble.

That depends on your definition of "freely available". At university
libraries in Germany (at least at universities with technical
faculties), you usually have the possibility to read all DIN standards
including VDE standards at one or more computer. Sometimes you also have
the possibility to print them on paper for a fee. (DIN, not VDE.)


Best regards,

Sebastian

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#196225

Sebastian Suchanek schrieb:

> That depends on your definition of "freely available". At university
> libraries in Germany (at least at universities with technical
> faculties), you usually have the possibility to read all DIN standards
> including VDE standards at one or more computer. Sometimes you also have
> the possibility to print them on paper for a fee. (DIN, not VDE.)

Some libraries also have paid for the subscription to the online
database (Perinorm), so that their users can download these standards as
PDF files from a website. There's no need then to print them at library.

Christian
-- 
Christian Zietz  -  CHZ-Soft  -  czietz (at) gmx.net
WWW: http://www.chzsoft.de/
PGP/GnuPG-Key-ID: 0x52CB97F66DA025CA / 0x6DA025CA

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#196220

X-No-archive: Yes

Am Mittwoch, 18. November 2015 04:59:22 UTC+1 schrieb DaveC:

> Are the DIN standards on-line for reading&perusing (and, in my case, 
> translating)?

No. No DIN standard (and also, no EN or ISO standard) is completely available online. 

There are some distributing services who publish the introductory pages but no complete standards. 

As mentioned by others, you can look them up at (technical) universities. There are also books available with collections of certain ranges of standards (DIN-Taschenbuecher, DIN-handbooks), they are much cheaper than a single edition (a single edition costs around 50...100EUR, the books cost just as much as a single standard in the orignal edition). The drawback is that the books (which are revised every few years) do not always contain the latest version of the standards and are in smaller format so some drawings might be less readable. 

http://www.beuth.de/de/fachpublikationen/fachpublikation-fachliteratur/suchergebnis-din-handbooks

However, for certain standards you can find websites citing the essentials but this needs a thorough search on the internet. 

Concerning EN standards, they are available in all european languages.

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#196288

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:59:21 -0800, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

>Wikipedia lists DIN standards but has only a brief description:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DIN_standards
>
>Are the DIN standards on-line for reading&perusing (and, in my case, 
>translating)?
>
>Thanks.

Which DIN?

RL

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#196345

> Which DIN?
> 
> RL

No one in particular. Am having a friendly disagreement with a friend about 
what a DIN number means. Does it define things like material, tolerance, 
finish and hardness or does it include size, thread, etc? In other words, 
does the DIN number define a particular, specific fastener (including 
dimension) or only the standards to which that fastener is measured against?

I always related DINs to the US MILSPEC standards which generally are 
standards, not product definitions.

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#196359

"DaveC" <not@home.cow> wrote in message 
news:0001HW.1BFE327E00023B161112783CF@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Which DIN?
>>
>> RL
>
> No one in particular. Am having a friendly disagreement with a friend 
> about
> what a DIN number means. Does it define things like material, tolerance,
> finish and hardness or does it include size, thread, etc? In other words,
> does the DIN number define a particular, specific fastener (including
> dimension) or only the standards to which that fastener is measured 
> against?
>
> I always related DINs to the US MILSPEC standards which generally are
> standards, not product definitions.
>

DIN defines the size of things.  Say a bolt with  a certain DIN number 
standard will be so many milimeters long, have a certain number of thread 
pitch per mm.

I don't know for sure, but suspect that it does not mean the bolt will be so 
strong or hardened unless aditional informationis added.

Not that familiar with metric standards, but lets use an American bolt as an 
example.  If you want a 1/4-20 bolt then it will be 1/4 inch in diameter and 
have 20 threads per inch.  It may or may not be hardened, made of 
steel,aluminum or any thing else unless specified.

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#196360

Ralph Mowery wrote:

> If you want a 1/4-20 bolt then it will be 1/4 inch in diameter and
> have 20 threads per inch. It may or may not be hardened, made of
> steel,aluminum or any thing else unless specified.

OK, thanks.

Seems the definition of “standard” (ie, ‘a level of quality or 
attainment’) is being blurred. It looks like they are being used as product 
definitions to define specifically all dimensions and aspects of a thing.

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#196363

"DaveC" <not@home.cow> wrote in message 
news:0001HW.1BFE3CC50004A3EE1112783CF@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
> Seems the definition of "standard" (ie, 'a level of quality or
> attainment') is being blurred. It looks like they are being used as 
> product
> definitions to define specifically all dimensions and aspects of a thing.
>

Yes, the DIN is mainly standards so that the parts all fit together.  It 
does not normally define the quality of the item.

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#196361

X-No-archive: Yes

Am Donnerstag, 19. November 2015 18:05:59 UTC+1 schrieb Ralph Mowery:

> Not that familiar with metric standards, but lets use an American bolt as an 
> example.  If you want a 1/4-20 bolt then it will be 1/4 inch in diameter and 
> have 20 threads per inch.  It may or may not be hardened, made of 
> steel,aluminum or any thing else unless specified.

It depends... There are DIN (and also european EN and world-wide ISO) standards of almost everything. 

There are DIN standards for the definition and meaning of terms.
There are DIN standards for dimension of nuts, bolts etc.
There are DIN standards defining the methods of testing the strength of a bolt etc.
There are DIN standards for the marking of bolts according to its strength. 
There are DIN standards for definition and designators of materials. 
etc.etc.etc.

It always depends to which standard you refer. 

And these are just the mechanical standards. There are lots of standards for other fields. Many of them define methods and procedures, such as testing procedures for certain products. 

However, there is NO standard defining quality levels. This is always the matter of the contractors. Even an ISO900x qualification of a supplier does not say anything about the quality of his products, just about the procedures he uses for testing and documentation. 

I know very few US standards but I assume the situation is the same. 

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#196899

Am 19.11.2015 um 18:07 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> "DaveC" <not@home.cow> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.1BFE327E00023B161112783CF@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Which DIN?
>>>
>>> RL
>>
>> No one in particular. Am having a friendly disagreement with a friend
>> about
>> what a DIN number means. Does it define things like material, tolerance,
>> finish and hardness or does it include size, thread, etc? In other words,
>> does the DIN number define a particular, specific fastener (including
>> dimension) or only the standards to which that fastener is measured
>> against?
>>
>> I always related DINs to the US MILSPEC standards which generally are
>> standards, not product definitions.
>>
>
> DIN defines the size of things.  Say a bolt with  a certain DIN number
> standard will be so many milimeters long, have a certain number of thread
> pitch per mm.
>
> I don't know for sure, but suspect that it does not mean the bolt will be so
> strong or hardened unless aditional informationis added.
>
> Not that familiar with metric standards, but lets use an American bolt as an
> example.  If you want a 1/4-20 bolt then it will be 1/4 inch in diameter and
> have 20 threads per inch.  It may or may not be hardened, made of
> steel,aluminum or any thing else unless specified.

Not quite. It is not like one DIN-Number == one bolt (or something 
else). Each number defines a certain kind of things, therms and 
everything :-). There is a DIN-Norm for writing a text (i.e. a thesis at 
the university), there is a DIN-Norm for drawing a cirquit diagram, a 
house, a 3D drawing or anything else. Most of them have a EN "in back". 
For example DIN825-1 defines laser safety (yes, I know, this norm is now 
obsolete but I'm too lazy to find new numbers), the adequate European 
Norm is EN60825-1.
Another example: DIN912 defines cylindrical bolts with allen key 
fitting. All of them. Including UNC & UNF i.e. non-metric bolts.

HTH

Waldemar

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#196993

X-No-archive: Yes

Am Dienstag, 24. November 2015 17:01:12 UTC+1 schrieb Waldemar:

> Another example: DIN912 defines cylindrical bolts with allen key 
> fitting. All of them. Including UNC & UNF i.e. non-metric bolts.

Are you sure that there are DIN standard dimensions for UNC and UNF threads? I do not think so. 

There are some threads of non-metric origin which are used and standardized in Germany, too, like the threads used for plumbing tubes. The dimensions, of course, are indicated in mm but the values are rather odd. 

The german industry does not support the usage of non-metric threads for standard fasteners. In all catalogues of dealers of nuts and bolts I could find things like "non-metric bolts with UNC threads similar to DIN912" which means that their appearance is similar to the standard of metric bolts.

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#197099

Am 25.11.2015 um 13:48 schrieb w-buechsenschuetz@web.de:
> X-No-archive: Yes
>
> Am Dienstag, 24. November 2015 17:01:12 UTC+1 schrieb Waldemar:
>
>> Another example: DIN912 defines cylindrical bolts with allen key
>> fitting. All of them. Including UNC & UNF i.e. non-metric bolts.
>
> Are you sure that there are DIN standard dimensions for UNC and UNF threads? I do not think so.
>
> There are some threads of non-metric origin which are used and standardized in Germany, too, like the threads used for plumbing tubes. The dimensions, of course, are indicated in mm but the values are rather odd.
>
> The german industry does not support the usage of non-metric threads for standard fasteners. In all catalogues of dealers of nuts and bolts I could find things like "non-metric bolts with UNC threads similar to DIN912" which means that their appearance is similar to the standard of metric bolts.

I'm not sure but some distributors claim to sell DIN912 UNC and UNF 
bolts. For example this one:
http://www.wegertseder.com/index_prod.asp?page=http://www.wegertseder.com/shop/_cartgive/det.asp?numm=2554&cache=42334,4946875

I do not have access to DIN standards.

Waldemar

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#197140

X-No-archive: Yes

Am Donnerstag, 26. November 2015 11:55:17 UTC+1 schrieb Waldemar:
>
> I'm not sure but some distributors claim to sell DIN912 UNC and UNF 
> bolts. For example this one:
> http://www.wegertseder.com/index_prod.asp?page=http://www.wegertseder.com/shop/_cartgive/det.asp?numm=2554&cache=42334,4946875

As mentioned, I have seen ads showing "bolts with UNC threads similar to DIN912". Some of these sellers mention that the UNC/UNF threads comply with ANSI standards. Also, if you click on the DIN912 link in the ad mentioned, an excerpt of DIN912 shows up ... mentioning metric threads only.  

> I do not have access to DIN standards.

same here but I have severe doubts that there are DIN threads with non-metric dimensions for standard fasteners. 

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#197199

w-buechsenschuetz wrote on Thu, 15-11-26 19:18:
>have severe doubts that there are DIN threads with non-metric dimensions

That's what books of tables are for. I find DIN 13 for metric threads 
(just the treads, there are other standards for the whole bolt 
referring here for the thread), DIN 2999 describing the Whitworth 
thread for tubes (cylindrical inside, cone-shaped outside), DIN 103 for 
trapezoid metric threads (for movement not fastening as in a vice) BUT 
the Whitworth tread for bolts i.e. 3/8" is listed as /not standardized/ 
so there is indeed no DIN for it.
As that was mentioned here before, DIN 898 decribes strength classes 
for bolts and nuts and i.e. DIN 609 and many others the shapes and 
lengths of bolts and their heads.

So yes, there is a DIN for a non-metric thread but only for a special 
case, not for simple nuts and bolts.

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#197229

X-No-archive: Yes

Am Freitag, 27. November 2015 19:14:55 UTC+1 schrieb Axel Berger:

> So yes, there is a DIN for a non-metric thread but only for a special 
> case, not for simple nuts and bolts.

I think this is exactly what I mentioned before. Besides the Whitworth threads for tubes, there are lots of standards for inch-dimension based threads, like the Fg thread (Fg = Fahrradgewinde, threads used on bicycles) and the Vg threads (Vg = Ventilgewinde, threads used on tire valves). 

Unfortunately, some manufacturers decided to use a mix of inch and metric dimensions. There are some bicycle parts which usually come with a thread wit 26TPI (threads per inch) pitch but some manufacturers use threads with same diameter but 1,0mm pitch which is close enough to match parts together first and ruin them after a few turns..

German DIN standards turn more and more away from non-metric or oddly dimensioned threads to metric ones. For example, many years ago there was a standard for Pg (Panzerrohr-Gewinde, threads on protection tubes for cables) which was based on the inner diameter of the tubes, so the outer thread diameters had odd metric values. This standard was cancelled years ago and replaced by a standard defining the threads of such tubes with pure metric dimensions (outer diameter and pitch) with common dimensions. 

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#196362

Am Donnerstag, 19. November 2015 17:38:23 UTC+1 schrieb DaveC:

> I always related DINs to the US MILSPEC standards which generally are 
> standards, not product definitions.

As far as I know, MILSPEC standards mainly define test procedures and quality levels for goods for military use. In this case, the US army will be the contractor and they can set their own quality level. Of course anyone else can agree with his supplier about the same quality level. 

As mentioned in my other posts, there are DIN standards describing test procedures but they do not say anything about the necessary quality level. 

There are, of course, also "standards" set by the German army or by other organizations. For example, the German railway (Deutsche Bahn) have their own standards concerning resistance of electronic equipment against shocks and vibration. Some manufacturers refer to these standards in their catalogues. 

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