Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.theory > #106207

Re: The error of the halting problem

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On 6/3/24 9:51 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/3/2024 8:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/3/24 8:59 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2024 7:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/3/24 4:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> For any program H that might determine whether programs halt, a
>>>>> "pathological" program D, called with some input, can pass its own
>>>>> source and its input to H and then specifically do the opposite of 
>>>>> what
>>>>> H predicts D will do. No H can exist that handles this case. 
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>>>>>
>>>>> The way that the halting problem is conventionally understood is 
>>>>> that H
>>>>> must correctly answer yes or no to an input that contradicts both
>>>>> answers, thus H is being asked a question isomorphic to the Liar
>>>>> Paradox: Is this sentence true or false: "This sentence is not 
>>>>> true." ?
>>>>
>>>> But it doesn't reduce to that, as the decider was fixed in code 
>>>> first, and then, by using that code, a question is constructed WITH 
>>>> A RIGHT ANSWER, that just isn't the answer that this decider happens 
>>>> to give.
>>>>
>>>> You just don't seem to understand logic well enough to understand 
>>>> that not that subtitle difference.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In other words you are trying to get away with saying
>>> that it is only random chance that H gets the wrong
>>> answer not that the game is rigged against H.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> There is nothing "random" about it, if there was there would be a 
>> chance it could get it right.
>>
> 
> Then why did you say it was random?
> "just isn't the answer that this decider happens to give."

But the answer the decider gives isn't random, because algorithms are 
not random.

> 
> When H is asked a yes/no question where both answers are
> contradicted by its input *IT IS A FREAKING RIGGED GAME*

But both answers aren't wrong. Remember, the question is built to make a 
SPECIFIC decider wrong, and by its algorithm, it will give a SPECIFIC 
answer to each SPECIFIC question.

The trick discovered was a way to build a question from the decider 
itself, that it will get wrong.

> 
> *You seem to be a mindless automaton that is hard-wired to disagree*

Not at all. I know what I am talking about. I am not so sure about you.

The problem seems to be a fundamental gap in your basic knowledge about 
everything you talk about.

> 
> Both professor Hehner and professor Stoddard said essentially
> this same thing in much more words.
> 

But they didn't seem to understand that a GIVEN decider has a FIXED 
answer for every possible question, and thus their ideas were just wrong.

Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 15:53 -0500
  Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:55 -0400
    Re: The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 19:59 -0500
      Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 21:44 -0400
        Re: The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 20:51 -0500
          Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 21:58 -0400
            Re: The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 21:14 -0500
              Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 22:26 -0400
                Re: The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 21:32 -0500
                Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 22:47 -0400
                Re: The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 21:58 -0500
                Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 23:11 -0400
                Re: The error of the halting problem joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-04 08:29 +0000
                Re: The error of the halting problem --- G is untrue in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 12:45 -0500
                Re: The error of the halting problem --- G is untrue in PA Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-04 21:48 -0400
                Re: The error of the halting problem Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-04 12:24 +0300
              Re: The error of the halting problem joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-04 08:27 +0000
      Re: The error of the halting problem Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-04 11:09 +0300
  Re: The error of the halting problem Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-04 11:00 +0300
    Re: The error of the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 12:28 -0500
      Re: The error of the halting problem Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-04 21:48 -0400

csiph-web