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G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk

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  G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2018-09-15 18:19 +0000
    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-15 15:10 -0400
      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 00:26 +0200
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 18:27 -0400
          Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 00:44 +0200
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 18:55 -0400
              Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 01:06 +0200
                Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 19:20 -0400
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 07:40 +0000
          Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-21 22:56 +0000
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 01:21 +0200
              Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 07:43 +0000
                Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 12:19 +0200
                  Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-22 10:32 -0400
                    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 20:58 +0200
                      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-22 15:05 -0400
                      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-09-23 14:22 +1200
                  Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-23 12:13 +0000
                    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-09-24 03:42 +1200
                      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-23 20:07 +0200
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2018-09-22 10:44 -0700
          Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 21:02 +0200
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-22 15:05 -0400
    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-15 20:32 +0000
      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2018-09-15 22:00 +0000
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-15 18:21 -0400
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2018-09-30 16:48 +0000

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#118158 — G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk

I have an old G4 Mac Mini that won't boot from either the internal
hard disk, nor the installer DVD. Now it won't eject the DVD.

It will boot into Open Firmware,  but does not execute eject-cd.

Yesterday I tried to fire it up after letting it sit for at least
a year. The flashing question mark came up and, thinking the disk
might be stuck, I power cycled it while wiggling the machine so
as to spin the disk a little. It came up and worked fine, including
rebooting a couple of times. Problem solved, or so I thought. 

When I tried rebooting again the question mark returned, and no
amount of wiggling the case helped. I could hear the machine
exercise the DVD drive, so I tried inserting the original installer
disk. The disk spins up, but the flashing question mark remains.

Now it won't eject the disk, even with eject-cd in open firmware.
Commands like "help" in open firmware don't work, so it appears 
things are stuck at a very low level.
 
I understand there is a cr-2032 cell backing up the settings, which is
almost certainly dead after ~13 years. Would replacing that help?

If there are other things to try I'd be grateful to know them. There's
nothing valuable on the machine, but if it could be salvaged it'd be nice.
I'm perfectly willing to dismantle it.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska
 

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#118159

In article <pnjif6$ti7$1@news.albasani.net>, bob prohaska
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

> I have an old G4 Mac Mini that won't boot from either the internal
> hard disk, nor the installer DVD. Now it won't eject the DVD.

the dvd drive is broken.

> It will boot into Open Firmware,  but does not execute eject-cd.

why are you bothering with open firmware?

hold down the mouse button at boot and it will eject whatever disc is
in the drive, assuming the dvd mechanism works.

> Yesterday I tried to fire it up after letting it sit for at least
> a year. The flashing question mark came up and, thinking the disk
> might be stuck, I power cycled it while wiggling the machine so
> as to spin the disk a little. It came up and worked fine, including
> rebooting a couple of times. Problem solved, or so I thought. 
>
> When I tried rebooting again the question mark returned, and no
> amount of wiggling the case helped. I could hear the machine
> exercise the DVD drive, so I tried inserting the original installer
> disk. The disk spins up, but the flashing question mark remains.

a flashing ? means no bootable system found. 

it sounds like the hard drive is flaky and finally bit the failed. it's
also possible the system on it is corrupt.

try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
won't boot from usb.

> Now it won't eject the disk, even with eject-cd in open firmware.
> Commands like "help" in open firmware don't work, so it appears 
> things are stuck at a very low level.

wrong conclusion, and why are you even in open firmware at all? 

> I understand there is a cr-2032 cell backing up the settings, which is
> almost certainly dead after ~13 years. Would replacing that help?

no.

> If there are other things to try I'd be grateful to know them. There's
> nothing valuable on the machine, but if it could be salvaged it'd be nice.
> I'm perfectly willing to dismantle it.

if the hard drive is physically ok and the system on it is corrupt, a
reinstall should fix get it to boot.

if the hard drive has failed (and it sounds like it has), it will need
to be replaced, which isn't worth the trouble or expense for a ~15 year
old computer.

the easiest solution is boot off an external firewire drive. if that
works (which it probably will), problem solved. 

except for software. since it's powerpc mac, you'd need to find very
old software to use with it.

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#118242

nospam wrote:
> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> won't boot from usb.

That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB 
drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded 
Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x 
Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual 
1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#118243

In article <po3r6i$sv9$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> > try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> > won't boot from usb.
> 
> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB 
> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded 
> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x 
> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual 
> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!

not os x, you didn't.

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#118245

nospam wrote:
> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>>> won't boot from usb.
>>
>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>
> not os x, you didn't.

Yes I have... 10.2,6, 10.3.x, 10.4.x + 10.5.x on the two G5's...

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#118250

In article <po3s9b$tch$2@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> >>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> >>> won't boot from usb.
> >>
> >> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
> >> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
> >> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
> >> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
> >> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
> >
> > not os x, you didn't.
> 
> Yes I have... 10.2,6, 10.3.x, 10.4.x + 10.5.x on the two G5's...

except you listed g4 macs, which won't boot from usb without a *lot* of
openfirmware hacking.

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#118253

nospam wrote:
> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>>>>> won't boot from usb.
>>>>
>>>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
>>>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
>>>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
>>>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
>>>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>>>
>>> not os x, you didn't.
>>
>> Yes I have... 10.2,6, 10.3.x, 10.4.x + 10.5.x on the two G5's...
>
> except you listed g4 macs, which won't boot from usb without a *lot* of
> openfirmware hacking.

One mistyping... The Single QS was not a 1,25ghz but a 1,4ghz. All 3 QSs 
were upgraded with GigaDesigns CPUs. I have not messed around with any 
kind of open firmware, - but they booted from an external USB drive with 
clones of the different systems - made with CarbonCopy Cloaner.

I don't know whether the accompagning GigaDesigns software made any 
changes to the firmware or not, but a fact is - they booted!

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#118254

In article <po3tii$ufh$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> >>>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> >>>>> won't boot from usb.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
> >>>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
> >>>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
> >>>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
> >>>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
> >>>
> >>> not os x, you didn't.
> >>
> >> Yes I have... 10.2,6, 10.3.x, 10.4.x + 10.5.x on the two G5's...
> >
> > except you listed g4 macs, which won't boot from usb without a *lot* of
> > openfirmware hacking.
> 
> One mistyping... The Single QS was not a 1,25ghz but a 1,4ghz. All 3 QSs 
> were upgraded with GigaDesigns CPUs. I have not messed around with any 
> kind of open firmware, - but they booted from an external USB drive with 
> clones of the different systems - made with CarbonCopy Cloaner.

bullshit. those macs will not boot os x from usb without mucking around
in openfirmware.

that was fixed just before the intel macs were released, so late model
g5s can boot from usb, but that's the exception, and that would be
later than your 1.8ghz g5.

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#118263

In message <po3s9b$tch$2@solani.org> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:

> nospam wrote:
>> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>>>> won't boot from usb.
>>>
>>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
>>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
>>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
>>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
>>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>>
>> not os x, you didn't.

> Yes I have... 10.2,6, 10.3.x, 10.4.x + 10.5.x on the two G5's...

No, you did not boot from USB on any PowerPC iMac. USB Booting as
introduced to the Mac with the Intel Macs.

-- 
Get in there you big furry oaf! I don't care what you smell!

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#118252

In message <210920181827380707%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <po3r6i$sv9$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
> wrote:

>> > try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>> > won't boot from usb.
>> 
>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB 
>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded 
>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x 
>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual 
>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!

> not os x, you didn't.

Only an Intel Mac capable of running Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) can boot
from a USB, and it must be booting 10.4.5 or later, so Erik is simply
wrong.

Also, many of the first coupe of years of Intel Macs have issues booting
from USB, so your success with 2006 or 2007 machines might be a bit hit
or miss.

But I had several 2009 models and all of them were fine with any USB2
drive for booting.


-- 
no no no no no
no no no no no no no
no no no no no

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#118255

Lewis wrote:
> In message <210920181827380707%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>>>> won't boot from usb.
>>>
>>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
>>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
>>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
>>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
>>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>>
>> not os x, you didn't.
>
> Only an Intel Mac capable of running Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) can boot
> from a USB, and it must be booting 10.4.5 or later, so Erik is simply
> wrong.

I don't right now recall which 10.3, 10.4 versions it was, but the G5s 
are/were 10.5.8 (I still have the one G5 to be able to run Classic OS 
9.2.2).

So I'm not wrong. The models mentioned are all PowerPC G4s + the two 
G5s. - Read my last answer to nospam, that may explain why...

> Also, many of the first coupe of years of Intel Macs have issues booting
> from USB, so your success with 2006 or 2007 machines might be a bit hit
> or miss.
>
> But I had several 2009 models and all of them were fine with any USB2
> drive for booting.

My two MacPro1.1 - 2,66ghz + 3,0ghz are booting fine from USB drives 
including USB sticks. I found USB to be too slow so now I'm only using 
external FW800 backup disks - cloned with CCC...

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#118264

In message <po3udr$v26$1@solani.org> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:

> Lewis wrote:
>> In message <210920181827380707%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>>>>> won't boot from usb.
>>>>
>>>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
>>>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
>>>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
>>>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
>>>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>>>
>>> not os x, you didn't.
>>
>> Only an Intel Mac capable of running Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) can boot
>> from a USB, and it must be booting 10.4.5 or later, so Erik is simply
>> wrong.

> I don't right now recall which 10.3, 10.4 versions it was, but the G5s 
> are/were 10.5.8 (I still have the one G5 to be able to run Classic OS 
> 9.2.2).

> So I'm not wrong. The models mentioned are all PowerPC G4s + the two 
> G5s. - Read my last answer to nospam, that may explain why...

It is possible, as nospam said, that later G5s could boot USB, but no G4
could. You are wrong/misremembering.

>> Also, many of the first coupe of years of Intel Macs have issues booting
>> from USB, so your success with 2006 or 2007 machines might be a bit hit
>> or miss.
>>
>> But I had several 2009 models and all of them were fine with any USB2
>> drive for booting.

> My two MacPro1.1 - 2,66ghz + 3,0ghz are booting fine from USB drives 
> including USB sticks. I found USB to be too slow so now I'm only using 
> external FW800 backup disks - cloned with CCC...

Yeah, I have a MacPro 1,1. It does not boot from USB. I still keep one
FW enclosure on the off chance I need to use that machine (I don't).

If you are mucking about with custom firmware or some such, then that is
something else entirely.

-- 
The new Death raised his cowl. There was no face there. There was not
even a skull. Smoke curled formlessly between the robe and a golden
crown. Bill Door raised himself on his elbows. A CROWN? His voice
shook with rage. I NEVER WORE A CROWN!  You never wanted to rule.

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#118267

Lewis wrote:
> In message <po3udr$v26$1@solani.org> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <210920181827380707%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>> I don't right now recall which 10.3, 10.4 versions it was, but the G5s
>> are/were 10.5.8 (I still have the one G5 to be able to run Classic OS
>> 9.2.2).
>>
>> So I'm not wrong. The models mentioned are all PowerPC G4s + the two
>> G5s. - Read my last answer to nospam, that may explain why...
>
> It is possible, as nospam said, that later G5s could boot USB, but no G4
> could. You are wrong/misremembering.

In fact I've been working professionally with Macs since 1991 - i.e. 
right down from the 68k machines and up to nowerdays more complex built 
hard-/software.

And yes, I HAVE booted the machines mentioned and this is a fact that 
doesn't change anything.

>>> Also, many of the first coupe of years of Intel Macs have issues booting
>>> from USB, so your success with 2006 or 2007 machines might be a bit hit
>>> or miss.
>>>
>>> But I had several 2009 models and all of them were fine with any USB2
>>> drive for booting.
>>
>> My two MacPro1.1 - 2,66ghz + 3,0ghz are booting fine from USB drives
>> including USB sticks. I found USB to be too slow so now I'm only using
>> external FW800 backup disks - cloned with CCC...
>
> Yeah, I have a MacPro 1,1. It does not boot from USB. I still keep one
> FW enclosure on the off chance I need to use that machine (I don't).
>
> If you are mucking about with custom firmware or some such, then that is
> something else entirely.

As written... I didnot change any kind of firmware, and I explicitely 
wrote that it may have been the GigaDesigns CPU installer software that 
has changed something.

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#118274

In article <po54vu$o5e$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> >> I don't right now recall which 10.3, 10.4 versions it was, but the G5s
> >> are/were 10.5.8 (I still have the one G5 to be able to run Classic OS
> >> 9.2.2).
> >>
> >> So I'm not wrong. The models mentioned are all PowerPC G4s + the two
> >> G5s. - Read my last answer to nospam, that may explain why...
> >
> > It is possible, as nospam said, that later G5s could boot USB, but no G4
> > could. You are wrong/misremembering.
> 
> In fact I've been working professionally with Macs since 1991 - i.e. 
> right down from the 68k machines and up to nowerdays more complex built 
> hard-/software.

so what. you're still wrong.

> And yes, I HAVE booted the machines mentioned and this is a fact that 
> doesn't change anything.

not os x, you haven't. 

macos 9 probably boots from usb, assuming the mac supports it, except
that most g4s don't.


> >>
> >> My two MacPro1.1 - 2,66ghz + 3,0ghz are booting fine from USB drives
> >> including USB sticks. I found USB to be too slow so now I'm only using
> >> external FW800 backup disks - cloned with CCC...
> >
> > Yeah, I have a MacPro 1,1. It does not boot from USB. I still keep one
> > FW enclosure on the off chance I need to use that machine (I don't).
> >
> > If you are mucking about with custom firmware or some such, then that is
> > something else entirely.
> 
> As written... I didnot change any kind of firmware, and I explicitely 
> wrote that it may have been the GigaDesigns CPU installer software that 
> has changed something.

it didn't.

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#118283

nospam wrote:
> so what. you're still wrong.

No matter what you write, I still have booted from the models mentioned, 
- so stop it mr. nobody. - You've too many times made a fool out of 
yourself, and noone even cares about what you're writing!

EOD!

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118285

In article <po63bs$ef8$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> > so what. you're still wrong.
> 
> No matter what you write, I still have booted from the models mentioned, 

bullshit.

so far, several people have told you it's not possible.

> - so stop it mr. nobody. - You've too many times made a fool out of 
> yourself, and noone even cares about what you're writing!

that would be you.

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#118289

In message <po63bs$ef8$1@solani.org> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:

> nospam wrote:
>> so what. you're still wrong.

> No matter what you write, I still have booted from the models mentioned, 
> - so stop it mr. nobody. - You've too many times made a fool out of 
> yourself, and noone even cares about what you're writing!

Sorry, but I don't believe you. I went through trying to boot my
MacPro1,1 off USB and stopped at the "new firmware" step.

> EOD!

No, you saying it isn't proof. Sorry.

-- 
"Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?" "Why are you wearing that
stupid man suit?"

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#118295

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <po3udr$v26$1@solani.org> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > Lewis wrote:
> >> In message <210920181827380707%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam
> >> .invalid> wrote:
> >>> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> >>>>> won't boot from usb.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
> >>>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
> >>>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
> >>>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
> >>>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
> >>>
> >>> not os x, you didn't.
> >>
> >> Only an Intel Mac capable of running Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) can boot
> >> from a USB, and it must be booting 10.4.5 or later, so Erik is simply
> >> wrong.
> 
> > I don't right now recall which 10.3, 10.4 versions it was, but the G5s
> > are/were 10.5.8 (I still have the one G5 to be able to run Classic OS
> > 9.2.2).
> 
> > So I'm not wrong. The models mentioned are all PowerPC G4s + the two
> > G5s. - Read my last answer to nospam, that may explain why...
> 
> It is possible, as nospam said, that later G5s could boot USB, but no G4
> could. You are wrong/misremembering.

My PowerMac G4 QuickSilver 2002 can boot Leopard from USB, using either
a built-in USB 1.1 port or a PCI USB 2.0 card.

I checked it again yesterday to confirm when I saw this thread, and did
further testing today.

1. The USB connected hard drive shows up on the boot manager screen
accessed by holding down Option at startup.

2. Tiger doesn't boot correctly: after the Apple logo, it shows a black
rectangle in the middle of the screen and spinning indicator instead of
the rectangle with the welcome message and progress bar, then gets no
further.

3. Leopard (10.5.0 in this case) boots fine, no obvious difference from
an internal drive, Firewire, etc.

4. System Preferences > Startup Disk does not show either of the Mac OS
X systems on the drive, just the Mac OS 9 system. That would make USB
booting impractical as a permanent configuration but it might be useful
in an emergency. I'd normally use Firewire in that case.

5. The computer won't boot from my USB optical drive (doesn't show up in
the boot manager). That make me wonder whether it only works with some
drives.

The PCI USB card and my hard drive are the only variables. I doubt the
PCI card would affect the drivers used for the built-in USB ports (it
would be a inconvenient to extricate the computer so I can pull the PCI
card just to confirm that detail). The drive is in a Manta Ray
Firewire/USB enclosure with an Oxford chipset.

I don't have any other USB drives handy with APM/Leopard but I could
create one when I have more time.

I don't have any other working 2002 or later PowerPC Macs handy to see
whether my QS2002 is somehow "special".

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#118299

In message <1nvkwac.134cyqm1pdpbpbN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 5. The computer won't boot from my USB optical drive (doesn't show up in
> the boot manager). That make me wonder whether it only works with some
> drives.

Interesting. I worked on this with my old MacPro for a long time several
years ago and never got it to work and, as I said, the instructions on
how to do it got to the point of "flash the firmware and use this
bootloader" and I stopped.

And the 

> The PCI USB card and my hard drive are the only variables. I doubt the
> PCI card would affect the drivers used for the built-in USB ports (it
> would be a inconvenient to extricate the computer so I can pull the PCI
> card just to confirm that detail). The drive is in a Manta Ray
> Firewire/USB enclosure with an Oxford chipset.

Oh, I think that might be the reason then. Buying an (at the time) $130
USB 2.0 card was an option for my Gigabit G4, I believe. And the kernel
extension for the card would "take over" the USB driver for the system.
I considered this a strike *against* the card, but then due to many bad
experiences with ape I was early on the "no kernel extensions ever"
train.

But this is all pulling from a long long time ago.

I got rid of my Gigabit ages ago, and IIRC my MacPro1,1 needs the PSU
repaired.

-- 
'They've given us the answers,' he [Carrot] said. 'Perhaps we can find
out what the questions should have been.' --Feet of Clay

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#118314

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <1nvkwac.134cyqm1pdpbpbN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> David Empson
> <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > 5. The computer won't boot from my USB optical drive (doesn't show up in
> > the boot manager). That make me wonder whether it only works with some
> > drives.
> 
> Interesting. I worked on this with my old MacPro for a long time several
> years ago and never got it to work and, as I said, the instructions on
> how to do it got to the point of "flash the firmware and use this
> bootloader" and I stopped.

How is experience with an Intel Mac Pro relevant to the ability to boot
PowerPC Macs from USB? Intel Macs are supposed to be able to boot from
USB (later models certainly do).

> And the 
> 
> > The PCI USB card and my hard drive are the only variables. I doubt the
> > PCI card would affect the drivers used for the built-in USB ports (it
> > would be a inconvenient to extricate the computer so I can pull the PCI
> > card just to confirm that detail). The drive is in a Manta Ray
> > Firewire/USB enclosure with an Oxford chipset.
> 
> Oh, I think that might be the reason then. Buying an (at the time) $130
> USB 2.0 card was an option for my Gigabit G4, I believe. And the kernel
> extension for the card would "take over" the USB driver for the system.
> I considered this a strike *against* the card, but then due to many bad
> experiences with ape I was early on the "no kernel extensions ever"
> train.

My Leopard system which boots doesn't have any third party kernel
extensions installed. install.log (and its compressed predecessors) only
shows my original install of Leopard on 27 October 2007 and a software
update check today - this was a test install of Leopard which I never
used afterwards. I installed it using this computer, probably with the
drive connected via Firewire because I had no reason to try it with USB.

My USB 2.0 card is a generic cheap one that didn't even mention it was
Mac compatible, let alone come with Mac drivers.

I've extricated the computer from under my desk, and removed the USB 2.0
card. I also took out my FirmTek/SeriTek SATA/eSATA card in case that
was somehow involved.

The computer still boots my Leopard drive from a built-in USB port.

That just leaves testing with a different drive enclosure and a fresh
install of Leopard. The installer probably won't allow picking a USB
drive as the destination. My easiest option (short of using a different
Firewire/USB enclosure which also has an Oxford chipset) is probably to
connect a drive using Firewire or eSATA, install on that, then move it
to my USB-only drive dock. If I can rustle up a spare 2.5-inch mechanism
then I also have some spare 2.5-inch USB-only enclosures I could try.

> But this is all pulling from a long long time ago.
> 
> I got rid of my Gigabit ages ago, and IIRC my MacPro1,1 needs the PSU
> repaired.


-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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