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Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture

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  Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-18 00:47 +0000
    Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-17 22:31 -0400
      Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-18 13:36 +0000
        Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-18 17:18 +0100
          Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-18 22:00 +0000
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 14:33 +0100
            [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-20 19:30 +0100
              Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-20 19:35 +0000
                Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-20 20:19 +0000
                  [OT] On feeding our overlords (was: Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 11:35 +0100
                    Re: [OT] On feeding our overlords (was: Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-22 19:07 +0000
                      Re: [OT] On feeding our overlords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 23:31 +0100
                        Re: [OT] On feeding our overlords rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-23 00:52 +0000
              Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-20 21:57 -0400
                Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:25 +0100
                  Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-22 04:10 +0000
                    [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones (was: Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 11:40 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 13:32 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-22 16:06 +0000
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-25 18:44 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-27 05:13 -0700
                        Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-27 20:44 +0200
                          Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 11:59 +0100
                            House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-28 06:34 -0700
                              Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 13:21 +0200
                                Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-29 06:42 -0700
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 20:48 +0200
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-29 21:31 +0100
                                    Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-30 07:10 -0700
                                      Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-30 18:57 +0000
                                        Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-31 03:27 -0400
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:45 +0100
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 22:08 -0400
                                    Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-30 07:16 -0700
                                Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:43 +0100
                                  Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-30 13:49 +0200
                                    Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-31 01:07 -0400
                          Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-28 06:22 -0700
                        Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-27 20:50 +0100
                          Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:21 +0100
                            Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 14:16 +0200
                    Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 13:30 +0100
                      Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-22 19:03 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 23:30 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-23 00:50 +0000
          Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-18 22:45 -0400
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-19 03:17 +0000
              Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-19 01:57 -0400
                Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 06:20 +0000
                  Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-19 02:51 -0400
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 03:58 +0000
              Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-19 02:20 -0400
                Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 14:19 +0000
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 14:36 +0100
          Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 03:47 +0000
    Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-18 02:48 +0000

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#90680 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?

Other than IP phones, you mean?

But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style keysystems 
like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well with a 
building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits perfectly.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#90691 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
> 
> Other than IP phones, you mean?
> 
> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style keysystems 
> like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well with a 
> building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits perfectly.

If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to the 
ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange sorting of 
the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 centre wires were 
used for the phone service. I have seen this setup actually used.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90739 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>
>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>
>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>> perfectly.
> 
> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
> phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
> so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to the 
> ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange sorting of 
> the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 centre wires were 
> used for the phone service. I have seen this setup actually used.
> 
Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'

The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original Ethernet.

You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
switch.
A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket

I wired my house that way.



-- 
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone 
gets full Marx.

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#90762 — House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>
>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>
>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>>> perfectly.
>>
>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
>> phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
>> so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to 
>> the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange 
>> sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 
>> centre wires were used for the phone service. I have seen this setup 
>> actually used.
>>
> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
> 
> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original Ethernet.
> 
> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
> switch.
> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
> 
> I wired my house that way.
Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone outlets. 
When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the living room, 
and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a second (modem) 
phone line into my home office, which happened to be right next to the 
telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just drilled a hole right 
through the wall.

In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a TV, 
and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service when 
I switched my Internet connection to fiber.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#90818 — Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>>
>>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>>
>>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>>>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>>>> perfectly.
>>>
>>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin 
>>> analog phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go 
>>> at 10Mb, so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not 
>>> connected to the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, 
>>> the strange sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is 
>>> because the 2 centre wires were used for the phone service. I have 
>>> seen this setup actually used.
>>>
>> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
>>
>> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original 
>> Ethernet.
>>
>> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
>> switch.
>> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
>>
>> I wired my house that way.
> Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone outlets. 
> When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the living room, 
> and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a second (modem) 
> phone line into my home office, which happened to be right next to the 
> telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just drilled a hole right 
> through the wall.
> 
> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a TV, 
> and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service when 
> I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
> 

When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
phone in the ethernet cable.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90826 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
...
>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
>> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
>> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service 
>> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>
> 
> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
> phone in the ethernet cable.
So that was considerably more recent that 2013?

This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.

By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
time; wireless is enough for the TVs.
-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90836 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 2026-08-29 15:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> ...
>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That 
>>> has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is 
>>> long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable 
>>> service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>
>>
>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>> phone in the ethernet cable.
> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?

Probably. When we changed from ADSL to Fibre. And I did not switch at 
the start.


> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
> 
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.

With ADSL I had the so to speak "modem" upstairs, by the computer. With 
fibre, the company put the router close to the TV downstairs and I was 
forced to put a cable to upstairs. The wifi signal was weak upstairs, 
and and at that time WiFi was about 20, maybe 40 mbits. And then I 
installed a switch upstairs, and an wifi AP.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90846 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On Sat, 29 Aug 2026 06:42:09 -0700
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> ...
> >> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
> >> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
> >> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
> >> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
> >> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
> >> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
> >> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service 
> >> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
> >>
> > 
> > When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
> > phone in the ethernet cable.
> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?
> 
> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
> 
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 

WIWAL that would have bought a decent sized house. Maybe 2.

> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.
> -- 
> Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California


-- 
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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#90903 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 2026-08-29 13:31, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2026 06:42:09 -0700
> Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> ...
>>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify
>>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a
>>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring
>>>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has
>>>> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long
>>>> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service
>>>> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the
>>> phone in the ethernet cable.
>> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?
>>
>> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the
>> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders
>> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
>>
>> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus
> 
> WIWAL that would have bought a decent sized house. Maybe 2.
> 
>> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
>> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's
>> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the
>> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this
>> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.
It might have been simpler to tear down the house and build a new one on 
the same lot, and not a lot more expensive, but ... that could not have 
been done in 4 months!

Half a block from me, someone bought a decent-looking house for $1.8M, 
which was at that point the most expensive sale in the neighborhood. 
Only to immediately apply to tear down the 1100 sqft house and replace 
it with a 2400 sqft (while retaining the 500 sqft garage in the back 
that had been converted to an ADU).

It has so far been 18 months since the yellow sign alerting neighbors to 
the permit application went up, and the house is not yet move-in ready, 
but it is getting close.

My brother in Copenhagen and his wife decided their 3-story house was 
going to be unwieldy as they age, to they sold it, rented an apartment 
in the bedroom suburbs, bought a teardown half a mile from the old house 
and built a new house. 10 months later they are living in the new house.

The city of Copenhagen actively wants to renew its housing stock and 
helps people build. The city of Santa Barbara wants to make it as 
expensive as possible to build; that keeps the riff-raff out.
-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#90919 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 07:10:34 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> The city of Copenhagen actively wants to renew its housing stock and
> helps people build. The city of Santa Barbara wants to make it as
> expensive as possible to build; that keeps the riff-raff out.

Figures. My brother lived in Lompoc. Santa Barbara and Solvang were on the 
list of places to take visitors. Santa Maria is where he went for anything 
not available in Lompoc. 

It was good for laughs. After the mandatory visit to Streans Wharf we were 
approached by a, er, sex worker, so some of the riff-raff must have 
slipped in. We were laughing as we politely declined. I don't know if she 
gave a senior citizens discount.

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#90945 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 8/30/26 14:57, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 07:10:34 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> The city of Copenhagen actively wants to renew its housing stock and
>> helps people build. The city of Santa Barbara wants to make it as
>> expensive as possible to build; that keeps the riff-raff out.
> 
> Figures. My brother lived in Lompoc. Santa Barbara and Solvang were on the
> list of places to take visitors. Santa Maria is where he went for anything
> not available in Lompoc.

   Have a number of relatives in Denmark. SOME,
   if infrequent communication.

   For a TIME Denmark was able to insulate
   itself from the world. This insulation
   seems to be breaking down. Now TOO linked
   to the EU, now TOO infiltrated by Islamists.

> It was good for laughs. After the mandatory visit to Streans Wharf we were
> approached by a, er, sex worker, so some of the riff-raff must have
> slipped in. We were laughing as we politely declined. I don't know if she
> gave a senior citizens discount.

   Well, gotta love "sex workers" !!! :-)

   Basic humanity.

   However that's NOT all there is anymore.

   Like it or not, Denmark is being dragged,
   kicking and screaming, into the General EU
   experience. "Utopia" didn't, couldn't, last.
   Believing in that illusion, their own fault.

   Denmark does not have the resources to DEAL
   with many of those EU realities.

   Have encouraged the relatives to BAIL OUT and
   move to the USA.

   Most won't/can't alas ......

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#90851 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 29/08/2026 14:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish.

My experiences say yes. Also consider a HEPA air filtration unit in the 
bedroom

-- 
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the 
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

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#90877 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 8/29/26 09:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> ...
>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That 
>>> has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is 
>>> long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable 
>>> service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>
>>
>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>> phone in the ethernet cable.
> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?
> 
> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
> 
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.


   Umm ... for half a mil you could have built
   an entirely NEW house, a pretty decent one.

   Suggest pre-fab concrete sections - quick to
   assemble on site.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90904 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 2026-08-29 19:08, c186282 wrote:
> On 8/29/26 09:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> ...
>>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the 
>>>> coax)
>>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my 
>>>> wiring closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. 
>>>> That has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone 
>>>> service is long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax 
>>>> cable service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>>> phone in the ethernet cable.
>> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?
>>
>> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
>> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
>> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
>>
>> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars 
>> (plus income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension 
>> fund).
>> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
>> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
>> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
>> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.
> 
> 
>    Umm ... for half a mil you could have built
>    an entirely NEW house, a pretty decent one.
> 
>    Suggest pre-fab concrete sections - quick to
>    assemble on site.

Not in the City of Santa Barbara.
-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#90850 — Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 29/08/2026 12:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>>>
>>>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very 
>>>>> well with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack 
>>>>> fits perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin 
>>>> analog phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go 
>>>> at 10Mb, so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not 
>>>> connected to the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, 
>>>> the strange sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is 
>>>> because the 2 centre wires were used for the phone service. I have 
>>>> seen this setup actually used.
>>>>
>>> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
>>>
>>> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original 
>>> Ethernet.
>>>
>>> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
>>> switch.
>>> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
>>>
>>> I wired my house that way.
>> Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone outlets. 
>> When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the living room, 
>> and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a second (modem) 
>> phone line into my home office, which happened to be right next to the 
>> telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just drilled a hole right 
>> through the wall.
>>
>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
>> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
>> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service 
>> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>
> 
> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
> phone in the ethernet cable.
> 
But you could out it in AN ethernet cable, just not one being used for 
Ethernet!
-- 
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They 
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90895 — Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 2026-08-29 23:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/08/2026 12:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>>>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very 
>>>>>> well with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack 
>>>>>> fits perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin 
>>>>> analog phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to 
>>>>> go at 10Mb, so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not 
>>>>> connected to the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, 
>>>>> the strange sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is 
>>>>> because the 2 centre wires were used for the phone service. I have 
>>>>> seen this setup actually used.
>>>>>
>>>> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
>>>>
>>>> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original 
>>>> Ethernet.
>>>>
>>>> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an 
>>>> Ethernet switch.
>>>> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
>>>>
>>>> I wired my house that way.
>>> Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone 
>>> outlets. When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the 
>>> living room, and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a 
>>> second (modem) phone line into my home office, which happened to be 
>>> right next to the telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just 
>>> drilled a hole right through the wall.
>>>
>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That 
>>> has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is 
>>> long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable 
>>> service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>
>>
>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>> phone in the ethernet cable.
>>
> But you could out it in AN ethernet cable, just not one being used for 
> Ethernet!

I put the ethernet (I can't see the type, it was painted over, but cat 5 
or 6) and another cable specific for phone, which is not used.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#90936 — Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 8/30/26 07:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-29 23:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 29/08/2026 12:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>>>>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very 
>>>>>>> well with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack 
>>>>>>> fits perfectly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin 
>>>>>> analog phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to 
>>>>>> go at 10Mb, so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not 
>>>>>> connected to the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, 
>>>>>> the strange sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is 
>>>>>> because the 2 centre wires were used for the phone service. I have 
>>>>>> seen this setup actually used.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
>>>>>
>>>>> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original 
>>>>> Ethernet.
>>>>>
>>>>> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an 
>>>>> Ethernet switch.
>>>>> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
>>>>>
>>>>> I wired my house that way.
>>>> Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone 
>>>> outlets. When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the 
>>>> living room, and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a 
>>>> second (modem) phone line into my home office, which happened to be 
>>>> right next to the telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just 
>>>> drilled a hole right through the wall.
>>>>
>>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the 
>>>> coax)
>>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my 
>>>> wiring closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. 
>>>> That has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone 
>>>> service is long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax 
>>>> cable service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>>> phone in the ethernet cable.
>>>
>> But you could out it in AN ethernet cable, just not one being used for 
>> Ethernet!
> 
> I put the ethernet (I can't see the type, it was painted over, but cat 5 
> or 6) and another cable specific for phone, which is not used.


   Pretty much ALL "phone" will work perfectly over
   Cat-3, often Cat-2.

   It's just a lower-speed tech.

   No, NOT pissing on it at all. HAS it's place.
   Never easily surrender last-gen tech - it's
   usually more robust.

   Traditional "phone" on Ethernet ... our old
   provider did that, but only on the wiring level.
   It was not a TCP/IP replacement. Normal PBX.

   NOW, different.

   Also "more vulnerable" Just Because.

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#90761 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-27 11:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>
>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>
>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>> perfectly.
> 
> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
> phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
> so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to the 
> ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange sorting of 
> the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 centre wires were 
> used for the phone service. I have seen this setup actually used.

Two points:
- the "RJ-11" phone connector is 6P4C. Although POTS only use 2 of the 4 
wires; the 4P2C connector is used for the handset cord.
- when using the 4-pair wiring for telephones, you do not connect the 
back end (in the closet) to an ethernet switch.

Back in 2003 when I wired our business office before we moved in, I did 
run one 4-pair cable to each desk, then split it the wall box with the 
two ethernet pairs going to an RJ45 jack and the two telephone pairs 
going to an RJ11. The back end was wired to a "66" style punch down 
block. From there I drew the telephone wires to an adjacent "66" block 
that connected to the PBX, while the ethernet pairs were bridged to the 
right hand side of the block, where a fairly standard "octopus" cable 
split it out into short (6 ft) RJ45 style cables draped from the wall 
panel across the 19" rack to the core 10/100 ethernet switches.

Ten years later, I began to wish we had spent the money to run two 
cables with RJ45 from the desk to a patch panel. Would have made it so 
much easier when we switched from pseudo-ISDN to IP telephones; we could 
then have connected the cubicles separately to the testbenches when we 
no longer needed the telephone wires.

But we were poor when we set up the shop, so we had to be cheap.

I did get a lot of praise for the wiring. Not from my coworkers, who had 
no idea what I was doing, but from visitors who recognized the structure.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#90694 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

Lars Poulsen wrote:

> Nuno Silva wrote:
> >> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
> 
> Other than IP phones, you mean?
Well, the subject specifically mentions mobiles

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#90700 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-27, Andy Burns wrote:

> Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Nuno Silva wrote:
>> >> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>
>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
> Well, the subject specifically mentions mobiles

I should have mentioned it in the body as well.


Meanwhile in the topic of non-mobile phones: at one point several years
ago I did see some model of desk phone which was actually a cell phone
(as in, it had a mini-SIM slot and operated over GSM). Didn't see it in
action, though.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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