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Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture

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  Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-18 00:47 +0000
    Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-17 22:31 -0400
      Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-18 13:36 +0000
        Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-18 17:18 +0100
          Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-18 22:00 +0000
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 14:33 +0100
            [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-20 19:30 +0100
              Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-20 19:35 +0000
                Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-20 20:19 +0000
                  [OT] On feeding our overlords (was: Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 11:35 +0100
                    Re: [OT] On feeding our overlords (was: Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-22 19:07 +0000
                      Re: [OT] On feeding our overlords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 23:31 +0100
                        Re: [OT] On feeding our overlords rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-23 00:52 +0000
              Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-20 21:57 -0400
                Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:25 +0100
                  Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-22 04:10 +0000
                    [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones (was: Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 11:40 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 13:32 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-22 16:06 +0000
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-25 18:44 +0100
                      Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-27 05:13 -0700
                        Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-27 20:44 +0200
                          Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 11:59 +0100
                            House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-28 06:34 -0700
                              Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 13:21 +0200
                                Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-29 06:42 -0700
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 20:48 +0200
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-08-29 21:31 +0100
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:45 +0100
                                  Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 22:08 -0400
                                Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:43 +0100
                          Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-28 06:22 -0700
                        Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-27 20:50 +0100
                          Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:21 +0100
                            Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 14:16 +0200
                    Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 13:30 +0100
                      Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-22 19:03 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-22 23:30 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-23 00:50 +0000
          Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-18 22:45 -0400
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-19 03:17 +0000
              Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-19 01:57 -0400
                Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 06:20 +0000
                  Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-19 02:51 -0400
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 03:58 +0000
              Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-19 02:20 -0400
                Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 14:19 +0000
            Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 14:36 +0100
          Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 03:47 +0000
    Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-18 02:48 +0000

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#90680 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?

Other than IP phones, you mean?

But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style keysystems 
like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well with a 
building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits perfectly.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90691 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
> 
> Other than IP phones, you mean?
> 
> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style keysystems 
> like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well with a 
> building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits perfectly.

If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to the 
ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange sorting of 
the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 centre wires were 
used for the phone service. I have seen this setup actually used.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90739 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>
>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>
>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>> perfectly.
> 
> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
> phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
> so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to the 
> ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange sorting of 
> the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 centre wires were 
> used for the phone service. I have seen this setup actually used.
> 
Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'

The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original Ethernet.

You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
switch.
A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket

I wired my house that way.



-- 
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone 
gets full Marx.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90762 — House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>
>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>
>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>>> perfectly.
>>
>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
>> phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
>> so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to 
>> the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange 
>> sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 
>> centre wires were used for the phone service. I have seen this setup 
>> actually used.
>>
> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
> 
> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original Ethernet.
> 
> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
> switch.
> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
> 
> I wired my house that way.
Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone outlets. 
When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the living room, 
and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a second (modem) 
phone line into my home office, which happened to be right next to the 
telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just drilled a hole right 
through the wall.

In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a TV, 
and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service when 
I switched my Internet connection to fiber.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90818 — Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>>
>>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>>
>>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>>>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>>>> perfectly.
>>>
>>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin 
>>> analog phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go 
>>> at 10Mb, so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not 
>>> connected to the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, 
>>> the strange sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is 
>>> because the 2 centre wires were used for the phone service. I have 
>>> seen this setup actually used.
>>>
>> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
>>
>> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original 
>> Ethernet.
>>
>> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
>> switch.
>> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
>>
>> I wired my house that way.
> Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone outlets. 
> When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the living room, 
> and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a second (modem) 
> phone line into my home office, which happened to be right next to the 
> telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just drilled a hole right 
> through the wall.
> 
> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a TV, 
> and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service when 
> I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
> 

When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
phone in the ethernet cable.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90826 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
...
>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
>> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
>> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service 
>> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>
> 
> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
> phone in the ethernet cable.
So that was considerably more recent that 2013?

This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.

By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
time; wireless is enough for the TVs.
-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90836 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 2026-08-29 15:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> ...
>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That 
>>> has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is 
>>> long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable 
>>> service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>
>>
>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>> phone in the ethernet cable.
> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?

Probably. When we changed from ADSL to Fibre. And I did not switch at 
the start.


> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
> 
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.

With ADSL I had the so to speak "modem" upstairs, by the computer. With 
fibre, the company put the router close to the TV downstairs and I was 
forced to put a cable to upstairs. The wifi signal was weak upstairs, 
and and at that time WiFi was about 20, maybe 40 mbits. And then I 
installed a switch upstairs, and an wifi AP.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90846 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On Sat, 29 Aug 2026 06:42:09 -0700
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> ...
> >> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
> >> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
> >> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
> >> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
> >> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
> >> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
> >> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service 
> >> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
> >>
> > 
> > When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
> > phone in the ethernet cable.
> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?
> 
> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
> 
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 

WIWAL that would have bought a decent sized house. Maybe 2.

> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.
> -- 
> Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California


-- 
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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#90851 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 29/08/2026 14:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish.

My experiences say yes. Also consider a HEPA air filtration unit in the 
bedroom

-- 
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the 
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#90877 — Re: House Wiring ... and other house stuff

On 8/29/26 09:42, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-29 04:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> ...
>>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That 
>>> has served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is 
>>> long gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable 
>>> service when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>>
>>
>> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
>> phone in the ethernet cable.
> So that was considerably more recent that 2013?
> 
> This year we discovered a bunch of water in the crawlspace under the 
> bathroom, which had led to dry rot in load-bearing wood beams (girders 
> and floor joists) and fungus/mildew/mold on walls and furniture.
> 
> By the time we were done we had spent about a half million dollars (plus 
> income taxes as we pulled the money out of the capital pension fund).
> My savings are significantly diminished, but hopefully my wife's 
> allergies and autoimmune problems will diminish. We replaced the 
> electrical wiring, but did not bother with communications wiring this 
> time; wireless is enough for the TVs.


   Umm ... for half a mil you could have built
   an entirely NEW house, a pretty decent one.

   Suggest pre-fab concrete sections - quick to
   assemble on site.

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#90850 — Re: House Wiring (Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones)

On 29/08/2026 12:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-28 15:34, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-28 03:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/08/2026 19:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>>>>
>>>>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>>>>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very 
>>>>> well with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack 
>>>>> fits perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin 
>>>> analog phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go 
>>>> at 10Mb, so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not 
>>>> connected to the ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, 
>>>> the strange sorting of the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is 
>>>> because the 2 centre wires were used for the phone service. I have 
>>>> seen this setup actually used.
>>>>
>>> Its standard for traditional 'structured wiring'
>>>
>>> The same CAT 5 carries phones on different pairs to the original 
>>> Ethernet.
>>>
>>> You patch in phone signals from the PABX rather than from an Ethernet 
>>> switch.
>>> A dongle converts from RJ45 to local phone socket
>>>
>>> I wired my house that way.
>> Me too. My house was built in 1951 and had only minimal phone outlets. 
>> When I moved in in 1985, TV coax had been pulled into the living room, 
>> and I added a couple more coax outlets, and pulled a second (modem) 
>> phone line into my home office, which happened to be right next to the 
>> telephone demarc box on the outside, so I just drilled a hole right 
>> through the wall.
>>
>> In 2013, I rebuilt the kitchen, and took the opportunity to identify 
>> every spot where one might want to put a computer, a telephone or a 
>> TV, and each got two RJ45s and a coax socket (well, only 6 got the coax)
>> all wired to the bottom of a back hall closet, which became my wiring 
>> closet, and home to the cable modem and root ethernet switch. That has 
>> served me well. Of course, the landline POTS telephone service is long 
>> gone, and it's been a while since I dropped the coax cable service 
>> when I switched my Internet connection to fiber.
>>
> 
> When I wired my house, I did it for gigabit, so no, I did not put the 
> phone in the ethernet cable.
> 
But you could out it in AN ethernet cable, just not one being used for 
Ethernet!
-- 
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They 
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

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#90761 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-27 11:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-27 14:13, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-22 03:40, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>
>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>>
>> But the 6P4C contacts on "conventional" phones and ISDN-style 
>> keysystems like the NorStar and Panasonic PBX systems work very well 
>> with a building wired for Ethernet. A 6P plug in an 8P jack fits 
>> perfectly.
> 
> If I understood what you are talking about correctly, the 4 pin analog 
> phone plugs can go into the 8 pin ethernet plug, cabled to go at 10Mb, 
> so that it connects to the 2 centre wires that are not connected to the 
> ethernet hardware, but to the phone hardware. Ie, the strange sorting of 
> the pins in the ethernet plug7socked is because the 2 centre wires were 
> used for the phone service. I have seen this setup actually used.

Two points:
- the "RJ-11" phone connector is 6P4C. Although POTS only use 2 of the 4 
wires; the 4P2C connector is used for the handset cord.
- when using the 4-pair wiring for telephones, you do not connect the 
back end (in the closet) to an ethernet switch.

Back in 2003 when I wired our business office before we moved in, I did 
run one 4-pair cable to each desk, then split it the wall box with the 
two ethernet pairs going to an RJ45 jack and the two telephone pairs 
going to an RJ11. The back end was wired to a "66" style punch down 
block. From there I drew the telephone wires to an adjacent "66" block 
that connected to the PBX, while the ethernet pairs were bridged to the 
right hand side of the block, where a fairly standard "octopus" cable 
split it out into short (6 ft) RJ45 style cables draped from the wall 
panel across the 19" rack to the core 10/100 ethernet switches.

Ten years later, I began to wish we had spent the money to run two 
cables with RJ45 from the desk to a patch panel. Would have made it so 
much easier when we switched from pseudo-ISDN to IP telephones; we could 
then have connected the cubicles separately to the testbenches when we 
no longer needed the telephone wires.

But we were poor when we set up the shop, so we had to be cheap.

I did get a lot of praise for the wiring. Not from my coworkers, who had 
no idea what I was doing, but from visitors who recognized the structure.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#90694 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

Lars Poulsen wrote:

> Nuno Silva wrote:
> >> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
> 
> Other than IP phones, you mean?
Well, the subject specifically mentions mobiles

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#90700 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-27, Andy Burns wrote:

> Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Nuno Silva wrote:
>> >> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>
>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
> Well, the subject specifically mentions mobiles

I should have mentioned it in the body as well.


Meanwhile in the topic of non-mobile phones: at one point several years
ago I did see some model of desk phone which was actually a cell phone
(as in, it had a mini-SIM slot and operated over GSM). Didn't see it in
action, though.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#90821 — Re: [OT] 10\+BASE-T on mobile phones

On 2026-08-28 01:21, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-08-27, Andy Burns wrote:
> 
>> Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>>> Are there phone models that somehow feature an 8P8C socket?
>>>
>>> Other than IP phones, you mean?
>> Well, the subject specifically mentions mobiles
> 
> I should have mentioned it in the body as well.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in the topic of non-mobile phones: at one point several years
> ago I did see some model of desk phone which was actually a cell phone
> (as in, it had a mini-SIM slot and operated over GSM). Didn't see it in
> action, though.
> 

An employer of mine installed small wall boxes, that had a SIM inside 
and would connect via GSM, while providing an plain RJ11 to connect a 
standard phone to it. An ISP sold them. Often the idea would be, for 
business, to make calls to landlines using a landline, and calls to 
mobiles using the GSM terminal, because of the pricing made cheaper 
calling mobiles from mobiles.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#90335 — Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture

On 22/08/2026 05:10, Rich wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 21/08/2026 02:57, c186282 wrote:
>>> My easiest/cheapest solution was wifi extenders/repeaters.
>>>     Many make them, they DO work and aren't very hard to set up.
>>>     Increase your range, 'get around corners'. Not as fast
>>>     as Cat-6, but still very useful. If you have multiple
>>>     servers, bunch them together and, if needed, hardwire
>>>     THOSE together.
>>
>> Easiest cheapest is those sending data through your household mains.
>> They are not reliable though
>>
>> Wifi is OK-ish Fairly reliable if short range,and a bit insecure. CAT5
>> goes further, CAT6 is marginal if you want top speeds - its only specced
>> for a few metres.
>>
>> By all means wire with CAT6 but don't expect it to be any better than CAT5
>>
>>
>> Problems with wifi are :
>> Performance degrades with many connections.
>> Performance degrades with distance
> 
> And, in a dense urban area, performance degrades with the number of
> neighbors also running their own WiFi near yours.
> 
Sorry. I forgot that. My nearest neighbours are outside air rifle range

>> Its not as fast as gigabit
>> Someone outside the house with a laptop can listen in to some extent,
>> and if they get your password...
>>
>> I use wifi for devices that are simply too hard to hard wire or are
>> portable. But te main network is CAT5
> 
> This is my method as well.  All the fixed equipment is ethernet
> connected.  And, as well, /some/ of the portable equipment is also
> ethernet connected when not being "ported around" (laptop, when it is
> not being carried around is also connected to a CAT5 cable).  The only
> items that stay WiFi only are those that have no ethernet jacks (cell
> phones).

Well I have PI zero-Ws scattered in places that are never places I would 
have thought I needed a network back in the 2000s when I cabled this place.
So I have three ZERO-Ws running WiFi, plus the IdiotPhone™ and the laptop.



-- 
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on 
its shoes.

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#90347 — Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture

On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 13:30:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Sorry. I forgot that. My nearest neighbours are outside air rifle range

You have to upgrade from your Daisy Red Ryder. Some of the PCP rifles have 
impressive specs. Nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girardoni_air_rifle

The savages were impressed by Lewis' toy. Despite the expedition's many 
encounters with different tribes they only killed two Blackfeet who were 
trying to steal their horses and guns. The Blackfeet have a different 
story. It might be more plausible if the Blackfeet didn't have a long 
history of robbing and killing their neighbors. 

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#90357 — Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture

On 22/08/2026 20:03, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 13:30:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> Sorry. I forgot that. My nearest neighbours are outside air rifle range
> 
> You have to upgrade from your Daisy Red Ryder. Some of the PCP rifles have
> impressive specs. Nothing new.
> 
UK here Bob. cant own anything with much muzzle velocity without a licence.

I've just got an old Weihrauch .22 It will kill a rabbit at 50 yards 
once in a blue moon when you get the drop juts right and the wind isn;t 
blowing

https://www.justairguns.co.uk/air-rifles/weihrauch-air-rifles/

The nearest Neighbors are about 300 yards down the hill, 500 yards up 
the hill or a couple of miles cross country either side

But the doctor is only a mile away,


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girardoni_air_rifle
> 
> The savages were impressed by Lewis' toy. Despite the expedition's many
> encounters with different tribes they only killed two Blackfeet who were
> trying to steal their horses and guns. The Blackfeet have a different
> story. It might be more plausible if the Blackfeet didn't have a long
> history of robbing and killing their neighbors.
> 

Noble savages were all the rage in the Romantic Period.

In Rwanda there are two tribes that slaughtered each other - Hutu and Tutsi

But one thing united them, their hatred of the Twa - the hunter gatherer 
pygmies from the rain forest who would wander into every town and 
village and 'gather' anything that wasn't nailed down.

-- 
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

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#90365 — Re: [OT] Re: The best Wi-Fi upgrade I made wasn't a new router, it was moving one piece of furniture

On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 23:30:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


> UK here Bob. cant own anything with much muzzle velocity without a
> licence.

I sometimes for get. I've been binge reading Inger Wolf, a Danish mystery 
writer. Most of her stuff is set in Aarhus but in the one I'm reading now 
the Danish detective is sent to Alaska for a case involving Danish 
nationals. The female US detective makes a remark about toy guns when she 
is kitting him out and he says he uses a 9mm. She fits him up with a Glock 
10mm. 

While it's true the 10mm was developed after a FBI shootout with 9mm 
didn't go well. 

The full load proved to be a little much so the FBI went to the .40 S&W, 
sort of a reduced load in a shorter case. .40 had it's day but most police 
forces are back to 9mm. Danes apparently feel Americans all prefer hand 
cannons.

Another interesting cultural thing is she refers to a congregation as a 
'free church'.  Few in the US would have a clue what a free church is. 

In her profile she says she has a dog named Harry Hole. I've often 
wondered how much English Jo Nesbo spoke when he picked that name for his 
detective. 


> The nearest Neighbors are about 300 yards down the hill, 500 yards up
> the hill or a couple of miles cross country either side

There is a convenient 1000 yard range if you need to practice.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/deep-creek/

500 yards, no problem. 

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#90087

On 8/18/26 12:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 18/08/2026 14:36, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/17/26 20:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-17, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.4Ghz will happily do a miles as many RC modelers have found. 
>>>>>> Just not
>>>>>> with trees in the way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Living trees are quite full of lots of water, which is a very good
>>>>> 2.4G signal absorbing medium.
>>>>
>>>> Good point.  There's a reason microwave ovens operate at 2.45 GHz.
>>>
>>>    Alas 5ghz interacts poorly with STRUCTURES.
>>
>> 5Ghz is much more easily absorbed by structures.  Brick and concrete
>> are very good absorbers of 5Ghz signals.  Brick and concrete also
>> absorb 2.4Ghz signals as well, just not to the attenuation level that
>> 5Ghz is absorbed.
>>
>>>    I doubt there's a 'perfect frequency' that will
>>>    get thru structures, veggies AND offer a good
>>>    data rate.
>>
>> There is no "perfect frequency".  Ignoring FCC rules that mean you
>> can't use every frequency anyway, if you want more penetration (less
>> attenuation) from structures you want lower frequency.  But lower
>> frequency comes along with lower bandwidth for data, so lower data
>> speeds.
>>
> Its ironic that I could probably build a reliable data transfer for 50 
> baud running on 27MHz

   Quite true - 'reliable', just not FAST.

   As for the 'FCC' ... sorry, no Ministry Of Housinz
   detector vans running around. They can't afford it
   and the VAST proliferation of signals makes a mess
   even an AI couldn't sort out. Unless you're blasting
   half a megawatt over commercial/govt stations the
   FCC just doesn't *care* anymore.

>> Reality is you have tradeoffs, and have to decide which tradeoff is
>> acceptable to you.
>>
>>>    Best, shitty, fix is to have multiple repeaters in house and then
>>>    pick the BEST one to connect to in any given part of the structure.
>>
>> Yes, that is the best way, but also the more complicated way, so most
>> non-techie folks won't end up going that route.
>>
> The best way is to wire the house with CAT 5

   CAT 6+ these days !!!

   Of course not all houses are 'wiring friendly', mine
   is NOT. Also, not EVERYTHING is directly indoors, I
   have some security cams on outbuildings.

   Anyway, the fairly cheap solution is repeaters/range-boosters
   They can get signals "around corners" pretty well.

   The 400mhz and 900mhz data bands were pretty good,
   and a number of devices are still made for them.
   They'd get through walls and trees and tropical
   rainstorms - often a mile+ range. Still, alas,
   yer data SPEED isn't gonna be like modern wi-fi.
   They're more like 'radio-linked modems'.

   https://www.adafruit.com/product/4072

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