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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #681006 > unrolled thread

For The Gamers

Started byrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
First post2024-12-21 19:02 +0000
Last post2024-12-28 02:27 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 109 — 16 participants

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Contents

  For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 19:02 +0000
    Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 14:42 -0500
      Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-21 20:43 +0000
        Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-21 22:09 +0000
          Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-21 22:20 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 17:25 -0500
              Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-22 10:05 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-21 23:08 -0500
        Re: For The Gamers Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 19:20 -0600
        Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-21 22:45 -0500
        Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-22 08:30 -0500
        Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-07 22:05 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:21 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 09:12 -0500
            Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-09 07:17 -0600
              Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-09 10:39 -0500
                Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 08:15 -0600
                  Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-01-11 18:34 +0000
                    Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 19:31 +0000
                      Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-01-11 19:51 +0000
                        Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 21:35 +0000
                      Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 17:47 -0600
                        Re: For The Gamers pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-12 01:16 +0000
                          Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 01:36 +0000
                            Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 11:12 +0000
                              Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 20:39 +0000
                          Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 19:53 -0600
                        Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-01-12 13:35 +0000
                          Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 15:58 +0000
                            Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-01-12 16:21 +0000
                      Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-01-12 09:08 +0000
                        Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-12 09:48 -0500
                          Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 16:09 +0000
                    Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-11 16:44 -0500
                  Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-11 13:40 -0500
                    Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 16:50 -0600
                      Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-11 17:58 -0500
                      Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 01:51 +0000
                      Re: For The Gamers -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-12 06:31 -0500
                  Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-11 21:04 +0000
                    Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-12 07:35 -0500
                      Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 13:05 +0000
                        Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-12 09:43 -0500
                          Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 16:01 +0000
                            Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-12 11:36 -0500
                        Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 20:32 +0000
      Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 22:36 +0000
        Re: For The Gamers snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-12-21 22:48 +0000
          Re: For The Gamers Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 18:05 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 05:25 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 06:06 +0000
              Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:39 -0500
                Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:30 +0000
                  Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 08:37 +0000
                    Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:17 +0000
                  Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:55 -0500
                    Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:44 +0000
                      Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 19:14 +0000
                        Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-25 06:53 -0500
                          Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:35 -0500
                      Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:54 -0500
                        Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 02:42 +0000
                          Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 22:18 -0500
                            Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 07:15 +0000
        Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 18:18 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 05:30 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 06:03 +0000
              Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 08:33 +0000
                Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 09:39 +0000
                  Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:00 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:22 -0500
              Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:21 +0000
                Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:51 -0500
                  Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:39 +0000
                    Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 19:00 +0000
                    Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:51 -0500
                      Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 02:41 +0000
                        Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 22:05 -0500
                          Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 07:14 +0000
                            Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 08:28 -0500
                              Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 07:45 +0000
                                Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:27 -0500
                                Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:23 +0000
      Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-21 18:50 -0600
        Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:14 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-22 10:40 -0600
            Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 11:54 -0500
              Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:12 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:11 +0000
              Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:43 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:10 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:42 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-23 06:29 -0500
            Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-23 07:51 -0500
              Re: For The Gamers -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-23 19:18 -0500
    Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 22:31 +0000
    Re: For The Gamers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-12-21 23:35 +0000
      Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-21 18:52 -0600
      Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-22 10:09 +0000
        Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:42 -0500
          Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-22 12:57 +0000
          Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:04 +0000
            Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 08:28 +0000
              Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 12:01 -0500
            Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:38 -0500
              Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:31 +0000
                Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 19:04 +0000
                Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:47 -0500
                  Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 02:27 +0000

Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  Next page →


#681404

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-27 17:54 -0500
Message-ID<5fGbP.176516$oR74.96822@fx16.iad>
In reply to#681185
On 2024-12-24 04:44, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-12-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-23 à 01:30, RonB a écrit :
>>> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
>>>>>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
>>>>>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
>>>>>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
>>>>>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
>>>>>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
>>>>>>>> and less necessity to use Windows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't bet on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
>>>>> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
>>>>> night.
>>>>
>>>> It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
>>>> superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
>>>> Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
>>>> able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
>>>> as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
>>>> that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
>>>> search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
>>>> necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
>>>> in choosing one over the other.
>>>>
>>>> I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
>>>> finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
>>>> finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
>>>> to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
>>>> for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
>>>> smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
>>>> removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
>>>> run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
>>>> affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
>>>> software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
>>>> many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
>>>> the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
>>>> I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
>>>> causes chaos across the board.
>>>
>>> First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
>>> "no brainer" when it sank?
>>
>> By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
>> for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
>> Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
>> that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
>> suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
>> spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
>> by the end.
> 
> I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
> "You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."
> 
>>> Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
>>> might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
>>> SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
>>> right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
>>> company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)
>>
>> I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
>> has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
>> against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
>> issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
>> necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
>> which are not available to Windows users).
> 
> I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
> someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
> say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
> use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
> has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
> were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
> stick with it until about 2007.)

I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In 
fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is 
on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with 
Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my 
nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that 
the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still 
seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681435

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-28 02:42 +0000
Message-ID<vknoj8$3vd4g$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681404
On 2024-12-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-12-24 04:44, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-12-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-23 à 01:30, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>>>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
>>>>>>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
>>>>>>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
>>>>>>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
>>>>>>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
>>>>>>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
>>>>>>>>> and less necessity to use Windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn't bet on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
>>>>>> night.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
>>>>> superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
>>>>> Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
>>>>> able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
>>>>> as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
>>>>> that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
>>>>> search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
>>>>> necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
>>>>> in choosing one over the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
>>>>> finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
>>>>> finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
>>>>> to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
>>>>> for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
>>>>> smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
>>>>> removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
>>>>> run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
>>>>> affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
>>>>> software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
>>>>> many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
>>>>> the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
>>>>> I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
>>>>> causes chaos across the board.
>>>>
>>>> First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
>>>> "no brainer" when it sank?
>>>
>>> By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
>>> for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
>>> Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
>>> that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
>>> suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
>>> spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
>>> by the end.
>> 
>> I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
>> "You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."
>> 
>>>> Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
>>>> might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
>>>> SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
>>>> right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
>>>> company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)
>>>
>>> I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
>>> has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
>>> against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
>>> issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
>>> necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
>>> which are not available to Windows users).
>> 
>> I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
>> someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
>> say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
>> use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
>> has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
>> were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
>> stick with it until about 2007.)
>
> I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In 
> fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is 
> on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with 
> Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my 
> nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that 
> the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still 
> seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.

I stay away from encryption, so can't be any help here.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681440

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-27 22:18 -0500
Message-ID<16KbP.136156$bYV2.14869@fx17.iad>
In reply to#681435
On 2024-12-27 21:42, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-12-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-12-24 04:44, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-23 à 01:30, RonB a écrit :
>>>>> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>>>>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
>>>>>>>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
>>>>>>>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
>>>>>>>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
>>>>>>>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
>>>>>>>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
>>>>>>>>>> and less necessity to use Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn't bet on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
>>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
>>>>>>> night.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
>>>>>> superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
>>>>>> Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
>>>>>> able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
>>>>>> as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
>>>>>> that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
>>>>>> search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
>>>>>> necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
>>>>>> in choosing one over the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
>>>>>> finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
>>>>>> finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
>>>>>> to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
>>>>>> for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
>>>>>> smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
>>>>>> removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
>>>>>> run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
>>>>>> affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
>>>>>> software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
>>>>>> many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
>>>>>> the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
>>>>>> I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
>>>>>> causes chaos across the board.
>>>>>
>>>>> First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
>>>>> "no brainer" when it sank?
>>>>
>>>> By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
>>>> for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
>>>> Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
>>>> that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
>>>> suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
>>>> spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
>>>> by the end.
>>>
>>> I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
>>> "You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."
>>>
>>>>> Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
>>>>> might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
>>>>> SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
>>>>> right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
>>>>> company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)
>>>>
>>>> I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
>>>> has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
>>>> against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
>>>> issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
>>>> necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
>>>> which are not available to Windows users).
>>>
>>> I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
>>> someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
>>> say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
>>> use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
>>> has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
>>> were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
>>> stick with it until about 2007.)
>>
>> I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In
>> fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is
>> on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with
>> Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my
>> nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that
>> the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still
>> seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.
> 
> I stay away from encryption, so can't be any help here.

Well, I'll be honest: the encryption almost caused me to lose access to 
my computer entirely. You see, if your drive is hardware encrypted and 
you suddenly decide to install Linux, you'll be able to delete the drive 
but not install on it. I was lucky that I still had my Windows 2 Go 
portable HD and could use Samsung Magician through it to revert the PSID 
and do a secure erase. However, had I not had it, this storage and 
computer would have suddenly become useless. It's a lot more trouble 
than it is worth.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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#681448

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-28 07:15 +0000
Message-ID<vko8in$6v2m$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681440
On 2024-12-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-12-27 21:42, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-12-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-24 04:44, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-23 à 01:30, RonB a écrit :
>>>>>> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>>>>>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage
>>>>>>>>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia
>>>>>>>>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development
>>>>>>>>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a
>>>>>>>>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more
>>>>>>>>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less
>>>>>>>>>>> and less necessity to use Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't bet on it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of
>>>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at
>>>>>>>> night.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over
>>>>>>> superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests
>>>>>>> Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be
>>>>>>> able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well
>>>>>>> as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford
>>>>>>> that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they
>>>>>>> search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is
>>>>>>> necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk
>>>>>>> in choosing one over the other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and
>>>>>>> finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For
>>>>>>> finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot
>>>>>>> to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily
>>>>>>> for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly
>>>>>>> smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires
>>>>>>> removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to
>>>>>>> run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most
>>>>>>> affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of
>>>>>>> software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this
>>>>>>> many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining
>>>>>>> the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians.
>>>>>>> I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration
>>>>>>> causes chaos across the board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a
>>>>>> "no brainer" when it sank?
>>>>>
>>>>> By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except
>>>>> for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned.
>>>>> Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting
>>>>> that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to
>>>>> suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were
>>>>> spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful
>>>>> by the end.
>>>>
>>>> I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them.
>>>> "You can't go wrong suggesting IBM."
>>>>
>>>>>> Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows
>>>>>> might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run
>>>>>> SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle,
>>>>>> right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database
>>>>>> company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it
>>>>> has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not
>>>>> against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new
>>>>> issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux
>>>>> necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it
>>>>> which are not available to Windows users).
>>>>
>>>> I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When
>>>> someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and
>>>> say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to
>>>> use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never
>>>> has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There
>>>> were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't
>>>> stick with it until about 2007.)
>>>
>>> I'll be honest: Linux is easier to set up on hardware than Windows. In
>>> fact, even hardware encryption is easier to set up on Linux than it is
>>> on Windows. I just wish I hadn't already gone through the process with
>>> Microsoft's OS because I'm at a loss as to how to "take ownership" of my
>>> nvme to complete the encryption process in Linux. Despite the fact that
>>> the nvme's PSID was reverted and the drive was erased securely, it still
>>> seems to have a tie to Windows. No matter.
>> 
>> I stay away from encryption, so can't be any help here.
>
> Well, I'll be honest: the encryption almost caused me to lose access to 
> my computer entirely. You see, if your drive is hardware encrypted and 
> you suddenly decide to install Linux, you'll be able to delete the drive 
> but not install on it. I was lucky that I still had my Windows 2 Go 
> portable HD and could use Samsung Magician through it to revert the PSID 
> and do a secure erase. However, had I not had it, this storage and 
> computer would have suddenly become useless. It's a lot more trouble 
> than it is worth.

That's been my (limited) experience.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#681026

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2024-12-21 18:18 -0500
Message-ID<L0I9P.12205$mi11.4753@fx48.iad>
In reply to#681020
Le 2024-12-21 à 17:36, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit :
>>> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
>>> games-industry/
>>>
>>> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
>>> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
>>> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
>>> the industry will spring back?
>>>
>>> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
>>> serious people.
>>
>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>> academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
>> people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
>> its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
>> problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
>> technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.
> 
> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
> businesses are "married" to this crap)

They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior 
to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some 
level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that 
LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily. 
Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere 
near the level of Microsoft's.

> and Microsoft's has leverage with the
> computer manufacturers.

All of the blackmail of the early years worked wonders here, I'm sure. 
Until the late 90s, competitors had much better software than what 
Microsoft was selling but it didn't matter because of how strongly 
Microsoft tied those companies to its products in the 80s.

> Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
> overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
> including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
> moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
> the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.
> 
> It will take a while though.

I'm sure that Linux is better for development. It has to be. However, 
all the programmers I know love to use Microsoft's tools including .net 
and DirectX. I have say to hear one programmer tell me that he enjoys or 
wants to program in Linux. I'm not saying that it can't be done; I'm 
saying they appreciate how easy Microsoft makes it.

-- 
CrudeSausage

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#681046

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-22 05:30 +0000
Message-ID<vk885c$g4du$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681026
On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-21 à 17:36, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit :
>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
>>>> games-industry/
>>>>
>>>> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
>>>> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
>>>> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
>>>> the industry will spring back?
>>>>
>>>> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
>>>> serious people.
>>>
>>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>>> academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
>>> people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
>>> its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
>>> problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
>>> technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.
>> 
>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>> businesses are "married" to this crap)
>
> They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior 
> to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some 
> level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that 
> LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily. 
> Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere 
> near the level of Microsoft's.

I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.

I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my 
purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow. 
If you want a database use a database software.

>> and Microsoft's has leverage with the
>> computer manufacturers.
>
> All of the blackmail of the early years worked wonders here, I'm sure. 
> Until the late 90s, competitors had much better software than what 
> Microsoft was selling but it didn't matter because of how strongly 
> Microsoft tied those companies to its products in the 80s.

Yep.

>> Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to
>> overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now
>> including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software
>> moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to
>> the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows.
>> 
>> It will take a while though.
>
> I'm sure that Linux is better for development. It has to be. However, 
> all the programmers I know love to use Microsoft's tools including .net 
> and DirectX. I have say to hear one programmer tell me that he enjoys or 
> wants to program in Linux. I'm not saying that it can't be done; I'm 
> saying they appreciate how easy Microsoft makes it.

My brother programs Windows applications. He despises .NET and DirectX. He 
liked Visual C++ when it was the "go to" development tool. 

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#681048

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-22 06:03 +0000
Message-ID<lspodrFpd5U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#681046
On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:30:20 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> My brother programs Windows applications. He despises .NET and DirectX.
> He liked Visual C++ when it was the "go to" development tool.

Peter Norton single handily wrote a library full of programming books so I 
don't remember the exact titles but he was not a VC++/MFC fan to the point 
where he used C in the book. MFC itself was a wrapper on the API so the 
difference was mostly you had to handle the 'this' parameter when calling 
the functions.

In the preface to an edition that was published when C# was becoming more 
popular he said Microsoft had finally done it right. I am not a fan of VC+
+.  I'm not current with the language but C++ itself was no picnic and 
Microsoft's extensions didn't help.  afx my ass.

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#681050

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-22 08:33 +0000
Message-ID<vk8ita$hoqk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681048
On 2024-12-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:30:20 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> My brother programs Windows applications. He despises .NET and DirectX.
>> He liked Visual C++ when it was the "go to" development tool.
>
> Peter Norton single handily wrote a library full of programming books so I 
> don't remember the exact titles but he was not a VC++/MFC fan to the point 
> where he used C in the book. MFC itself was a wrapper on the API so the 
> difference was mostly you had to handle the 'this' parameter when calling 
> the functions.
>
> In the preface to an edition that was published when C# was becoming more 
> popular he said Microsoft had finally done it right. I am not a fan of VC+
> +.  I'm not current with the language but C++ itself was no picnic and 
> Microsoft's extensions didn't help.  afx my ass.

I know nothing about programming. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was 
Visual C++ that my brother liked the most. I know for certain that he 
doesn't like the newest Microsoft stuff. He says it's crap.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#681054

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-22 09:39 +0000
Message-ID<lsq52tF360oU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#681050
On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 08:33:46 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I know nothing about programming. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was
> Visual C++ that my brother liked the most. I know for certain that he
> doesn't like the newest Microsoft stuff. He says it's crap.

Some is. I never warmed up to WPF and xaml and used Winforms for any GUIs 
I had to do. Microsoft would dearly love to kill Winforms but there is too 
much popular support. However ASP.NET which is the back end server part is 
much cleaner in C#. Some of the bad taste for C++ involves WCF which is a 
huge, sprawling pile of SOAP crap.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681105

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-23 06:00 +0000
Message-ID<vkau9u$12pp6$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681054
On 2024-12-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 08:33:46 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> I know nothing about programming. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was
>> Visual C++ that my brother liked the most. I know for certain that he
>> doesn't like the newest Microsoft stuff. He says it's crap.
>
> Some is. I never warmed up to WPF and xaml and used Winforms for any GUIs 
> I had to do. Microsoft would dearly love to kill Winforms but there is too 
> much popular support. However ASP.NET which is the back end server part is 
> much cleaner in C#. Some of the bad taste for C++ involves WCF which is a 
> huge, sprawling pile of SOAP crap.

All of this is above my pay grade. I can't even learn Python.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#681063

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2024-12-22 07:22 -0500
Message-ID<ewT9P.4210$h3%7.704@fx02.iad>
In reply to#681046
Le 2024-12-22 à 00:30, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-21 à 17:36, RonB a écrit :
>>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
>>>>> games-industry/
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
>>>>> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
>>>>> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
>>>>> the industry will spring back?
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
>>>>> serious people.
>>>>
>>>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>>>> academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
>>>> people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
>>>> its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
>>>> problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
>>>> technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.
>>>
>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>> businesses are "married" to this crap)
>>
>> They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
>> to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
>> level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
>> LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
>> Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
>> near the level of Microsoft's.
> 
> I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
> 
> I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
> purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
> If you want a database use a database software.

Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't 
sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to 
report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for 
consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been 
offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors 
to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots 
of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of 
"shady business practises" either.

-- 
CrudeSausage

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#681110

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-23 06:21 +0000
Message-ID<vkavi0$12pp6$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681063
On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-22 à 00:30, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 17:36, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
>>>>>> games-industry/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
>>>>>> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
>>>>>> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
>>>>>> the industry will spring back?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
>>>>>> serious people.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>>>>> academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
>>>>> people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
>>>>> its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
>>>>> problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
>>>>> technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.
>>>>
>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap)
>>>
>>> They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
>>> to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
>>> level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
>>> LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
>>> Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
>>> near the level of Microsoft's.
>> 
>> I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
>> 
>> I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
>> purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
>> If you want a database use a database software.
>
> Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't 
> sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to 
> report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for 
> consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been 
> offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors 
> to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots 
> of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of 
> "shady business practises" either.

I don't think "robustness" has anything to do with it. I think it comes down 
to what the others expect. It's basically a monopoly product and, as I 
mentioned with Windows, monopolies have an inertia loop that's hard for 
businesses to exit from. It has nothing to do with the supposed "quality" of 
the product — it has everything to do with "this is what we're used to 
using."

In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you. 
But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the 
"inertia loop."

My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she 
purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so 
she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just 
the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.

That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#681133

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2024-12-23 11:51 -0500
Message-ID<BygaP.57820$DYF8.52065@fx14.iad>
In reply to#681110
Le 2024-12-23 à 01:21, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-22 à 00:30, RonB a écrit :
>>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 17:36, RonB a écrit :
>>>>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
>>>>>>> games-industry/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
>>>>>>> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
>>>>>>> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
>>>>>>> the industry will spring back?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
>>>>>>> serious people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>>>>>> academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
>>>>>> people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
>>>>>> its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
>>>>>> problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
>>>>>> technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap)
>>>>
>>>> They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
>>>> to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
>>>> level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
>>>> LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
>>>> Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
>>>> near the level of Microsoft's.
>>>
>>> I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
>>>
>>> I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
>>> purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
>>> If you want a database use a database software.
>>
>> Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't
>> sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to
>> report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for
>> consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been
>> offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors
>> to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots
>> of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of
>> "shady business practises" either.
> 
> I don't think "robustness" has anything to do with it. I think it comes down
> to what the others expect. It's basically a monopoly product and, as I
> mentioned with Windows, monopolies have an inertia loop that's hard for
> businesses to exit from. It has nothing to do with the supposed "quality" of
> the product — it has everything to do with "this is what we're used to
> using."

Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people 
need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice 
users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite, 
like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here 
convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any 
of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough 
for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a 
license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for 
free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have 
no proper use for Libre.

> In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
> But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
> "inertia loop."

I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI 
makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are 
certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing 
Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is 
the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the 
web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier 
than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

> My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
> purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
> she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
> the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
> 
> That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.

I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use. 
At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user 
I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

-- 
CrudeSausage

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#681184

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-24 09:39 +0000
Message-ID<vkdvg3$1p1nc$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681133
On 2024-12-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-23 à 01:21, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-22 à 00:30, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 17:36, RonB a écrit :
>>>>>> On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit :
>>>>>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the-
>>>>>>>> games-industry/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of
>>>>>>>> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might
>>>>>>>> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if
>>>>>>>> the industry will spring back?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for
>>>>>>>> serious people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>>>>>>> academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the
>>>>>>> people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that
>>>>>>> its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the
>>>>>>> problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of
>>>>>>> technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and
>>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap)
>>>>>
>>>>> They do use Microsoft Office but there is no denying that it is superior
>>>>> to what's available to Linux. Perhaps WPS Office can compete at some
>>>>> level, but most people I know who use spreadsheet software say that
>>>>> LibreOffice is sorely lacking in the functionality they use daily.
>>>>> Additionally, they say that the functionality it does provide is nowhere
>>>>> near the level of Microsoft's.
>>>>
>>>> I'm denying it. I despise MicroCrap Office. Worthless bloatware.
>>>>
>>>> I used Calc in OpenOffice at work before LibreOffice ever existed. For my
>>>> purposes it worked fine. Spreadsheets are overused for data purposes anyhow.
>>>> If you want a database use a database software.
>>>
>>> Your opinion on spreadsheets and the software used to make them won't
>>> sway people like my wife who calculates financial risk and needs to
>>> report it to the investors. For people like her, Calc is not even up for
>>> consideration because Microsoft's software is robust and has been
>>> offering reliable service for decades. There were stronger competitors
>>> to Excel than Calc in the past, competitors that had already made lots
>>> of headway, and they too were left in the dust. It's not all because of
>>> "shady business practises" either.
>> 
>> I don't think "robustness" has anything to do with it. I think it comes down
>> to what the others expect. It's basically a monopoly product and, as I
>> mentioned with Windows, monopolies have an inertia loop that's hard for
>> businesses to exit from. It has nothing to do with the supposed "quality" of
>> the product — it has everything to do with "this is what we're used to
>> using."
>
> Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people 
> need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice 
> users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite, 
> like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here 
> convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any 
> of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough 
> for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a 
> license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for 
> free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have 
> no proper use for Libre.

I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is 
that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a 
time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code. 

>> In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
>> But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
>> "inertia loop."
>
> I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI 
> makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are 
> certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing 
> Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is 
> the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the 
> web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier 
> than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.

I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in 
Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google. 

>> My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
>> purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
>> she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
>> the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
>> 
>> That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.
>
> I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use. 
> At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user 
> I help: it's not that unfamiliar.

Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does 
work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not 
by accident.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681213

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-24 19:00 +0000
Message-ID<lt0en9F36j3U8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#681184
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:39:15 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
> Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

The Brave search bar has an icon on the right edge 'Answer with AI' if you 
want the chatter.

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#681403

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-27 17:51 -0500
Message-ID<tbGbP.176515$oR74.136521@fx16.iad>
In reply to#681184
On 2024-12-24 04:39, RonB wrote:

< snip >

>> Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
>> need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
>> users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
>> like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
>> convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
>> of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
>> for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
>> license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
>> free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
>> no proper use for Libre.
> 
> I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
> that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
> time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.

I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer 
WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.

>>> In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
>>> But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
>>> "inertia loop."
>>
>> I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
>> makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
>> certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
>> Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
>> the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
>> web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
>> than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.
> 
> I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
> Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.

I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the 
fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time 
by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not 
Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content 
on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have 
learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows 
you to circumvent the issue entirely.

>>> My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
>>> purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
>>> she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
>>> the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
>>>
>>> That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.
>>
>> I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
>> At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
>> I help: it's not that unfamiliar.
> 
> Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
> work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
> by accident.

I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a 
comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything 
you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour 
and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681433

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-28 02:41 +0000
Message-ID<vknogj$3vd4g$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681403
On 2024-12-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-12-24 04:39, RonB wrote:
>
>< snip >
>
>>> Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
>>> need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
>>> users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
>>> like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
>>> convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
>>> of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
>>> for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
>>> license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
>>> free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
>>> no proper use for Libre.
>> 
>> I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
>> that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
>> time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.
>
> I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer 
> WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.

I think WordPerfect also has special templates for lawyers. And, I'm 
guessing, it's inertia thing again. WordPerfect got popular for lawyers, so 
they keep using it.

>>>> In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
>>>> But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
>>>> "inertia loop."
>>>
>>> I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
>>> makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
>>> certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
>>> Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
>>> the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
>>> web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
>>> than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.
>> 
>> I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
>> Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.
>
> I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the 
> fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time 
> by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not 
> Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content 
> on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have 
> learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows 
> you to circumvent the issue entirely.

I've been using Firefox for so long that I don't think I would want to move 
away from it. I can customize so it's very minimal and that's something I 
_do_ do on new installs, get Firefox working the way I like it.

My impression of AI is just not very good. It always sounds like an 
informercial to me. And it pisses me off that these AI server farms use as 
much power as whole cities and not a damn peep (or very muted whining) about 
it from the climate screechers — who keep trying to get us (personally) to 
use less and less power. I guess the AI server farms are more important than 
people.

>>>> My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
>>>> purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
>>>> she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
>>>> the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
>>>>
>>>> That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.
>>>
>>> I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
>>> At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
>>> I help: it's not that unfamiliar.
>> 
>> Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
>> work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
>> by accident.
>
> I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a 
> comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything 
> you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour 
> and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.

I could use Fedora (especially with the Cinnamon spin) without much trouble. 
Synaptic is better than Fedora's install application and Linux Mint has nice 
little utilities built-in, but (for when it matters) you're trading "cutting 
edge" for a little more convenience. (A trade I don't mind making.) In 
Linux Mint, if I install EasyEffects (for example), I'll have to use FlatPak 
instead of the repository (at least in version 21). So there's pros and 
cons.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681439

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-27 22:05 -0500
Message-ID<3WJbP.17255$vfee.10489@fx45.iad>
In reply to#681433
On 2024-12-27 21:41, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-12-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-12-24 04:39, RonB wrote:
>>
>> < snip >
>>
>>>> Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
>>>> need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
>>>> users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
>>>> like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
>>>> convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
>>>> of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
>>>> for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
>>>> license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
>>>> free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
>>>> no proper use for Libre.
>>>
>>> I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
>>> that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
>>> time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.
>>
>> I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer
>> WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.
> 
> I think WordPerfect also has special templates for lawyers. And, I'm
> guessing, it's inertia thing again. WordPerfect got popular for lawyers, so
> they keep using it.

That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the 
"legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update 
later and poof, no more functionality.

>>>>> In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
>>>>> But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
>>>>> "inertia loop."
>>>>
>>>> I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
>>>> makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
>>>> certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
>>>> Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
>>>> the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
>>>> web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
>>>> than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.
>>>
>>> I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
>>> Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.
>>
>> I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the
>> fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time
>> by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not
>> Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content
>> on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have
>> learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows
>> you to circumvent the issue entirely.
> 
> I've been using Firefox for so long that I don't think I would want to move
> away from it. I can customize so it's very minimal and that's something I
> _do_ do on new installs, get Firefox working the way I like it.
> 
> My impression of AI is just not very good. It always sounds like an
> informercial to me. And it pisses me off that these AI server farms use as
> much power as whole cities and not a damn peep (or very muted whining) about
> it from the climate screechers — who keep trying to get us (personally) to
> use less and less power. I guess the AI server farms are more important than
> people.

I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on 
Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want 
gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers 
back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it 
doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I 
don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

>>>>> My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
>>>>> purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
>>>>> she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
>>>>> the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.
>>>>
>>>> I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
>>>> At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
>>>> I help: it's not that unfamiliar.
>>>
>>> Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
>>> work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
>>> by accident.
>>
>> I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a
>> comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything
>> you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour
>> and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.
> 
> I could use Fedora (especially with the Cinnamon spin) without much trouble.
> Synaptic is better than Fedora's install application and Linux Mint has nice
> little utilities built-in, but (for when it matters) you're trading "cutting
> edge" for a little more convenience. (A trade I don't mind making.) In
> Linux Mint, if I install EasyEffects (for example), I'll have to use FlatPak
> instead of the repository (at least in version 21). So there's pros and
> cons.

You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and 
the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for 
applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best 
with the rest of your system.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681447

FromRonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-28 07:14 +0000
Message-ID<vko8gn$6v2m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681439
On 2024-12-28, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-12-27 21:41, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-12-27, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-24 04:39, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>> < snip >
>>>
>>>>> Well, I can tell you that there are certain advanced features people
>>>>> need in Microsoft Office which seem to be unavailable to LibreOffice
>>>>> users. Of course, they might just be somewhere else in the open suite,
>>>>> like when I received a document with forms in .DOCX and had someone here
>>>>> convert it to the equivalent in .ODT. At the same time, I don't use any
>>>>> of the advanced features so LibreOffice has always been more than enough
>>>>> for me. The only reason I use Microsoft's suite is because I got a
>>>>> license for cheap. I can also use the 365 license I get from work for
>>>>> free. Since I routinely receive documents from them to fill out, I have
>>>>> no proper use for Libre.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I've never had any use for these advanced features. All I know is
>>>> that, when we would get Word Documents at the print shop, we had a heck of a
>>>> time cleaning them up for Desk Top Application. Lot of hidden code.
>>>
>>> I believe that is part of the reason why legal offices still prefer
>>> WordPerfect Office over Microsoft's software.
>> 
>> I think WordPerfect also has special templates for lawyers. And, I'm
>> guessing, it's inertia thing again. WordPerfect got popular for lawyers, so
>> they keep using it.
>
> That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the 
> "legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update 
> later and poof, no more functionality.

Sorry to hear that. I, personally, never was a big WordPerfect fan. My 
"favorite" Windows word processor was WordPro, but usually used WordStar 7 
for DOS. (Still do in DOBox-X.)

>>>>>> In my opinion M$ Office is bloated crapware that tries to "think" for you.
>>>>>> But I was only occasionally forced to use it so I never got in stuck in the
>>>>>> "inertia loop."
>>>>>
>>>>> I would extend that to Windows itself too. The way it has implemented AI
>>>>> makes it clear that they don't want you thinking. Of course, there are
>>>>> certain places where I appreciate the AI like in Brave Search or Bing
>>>>> Search. There, if there is a certain technological question like what is
>>>>> the benefit of one monitor over another, the engine quickly scours the
>>>>> web for information and summarizes the data for me. That is much easier
>>>>> than navigating to a bunch of websites which cannon a series of ads at me.
>>>>
>>>> I turn off AI in my searches. I don't know about Brave or Bing, but in
>>>> Firefox you just add the udm14 add-on and AI results are gone in Google.
>>>
>>> I'm a big fan of Brave's AI, to be honest. When I was looking up the
>>> fTPM problem I mentioned in a previous post, it saved me a lot of time
>>> by telling me what people were saying, how to fix it, whether or not
>>> Linux is affected and so on. Had I been forced to read all that content
>>> on my own, I'd probably get discouraged. In fact, I might never have
>>> learned that the Linux kernel actually addresses the problem and allows
>>> you to circumvent the issue entirely.
>> 
>> I've been using Firefox for so long that I don't think I would want to move
>> away from it. I can customize so it's very minimal and that's something I
>> _do_ do on new installs, get Firefox working the way I like it.
>> 
>> My impression of AI is just not very good. It always sounds like an
>> informercial to me. And it pisses me off that these AI server farms use as
>> much power as whole cities and not a damn peep (or very muted whining) about
>> it from the climate screechers — who keep trying to get us (personally) to
>> use less and less power. I guess the AI server farms are more important than
>> people.
>
> I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on 
> Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want 
> gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers 
> back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it 
> doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I 
> don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.

My brother is the same way about firefox. I've tried Brave and several 
others, but I guess I'm a creature of habit. I don't do any of the fancy 
gestures, however. And uBlock Origin (the full version) works well in 
Firefox.

>>>>>> My wife uses Power Point. She originally used it because a template she
>>>>>> purchased only worked with Power Point. Now she's used to using it, so
>>>>>> she'll probably keep using it as long as she needs to prepare classes. Just
>>>>>> the way it works. People use what they're used to using. Inertia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's why so many still use the inferior Microsoft Windows crap OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't argue that habit plays a big part in what people choose to use.
>>>>> At the same time, that's why I usually load Linux Mint for whatever user
>>>>> I help: it's not that unfamiliar.
>>>>
>>>> Linux Mint is often suggested for those moving from Windows because it does
>>>> work similarly (at least at the Desktop level). I'm sure that design is not
>>>> by accident.
>>>
>>> I chose Fedora this time around because www.asus-linux.org offers a
>>> comprehensive guide for the distribution to make sure that everything
>>> you want works as it should on your hardware. I chose the KDE flavour
>>> and it more or less behaves like a snappier Windows.
>> 
>> I could use Fedora (especially with the Cinnamon spin) without much trouble.
>> Synaptic is better than Fedora's install application and Linux Mint has nice
>> little utilities built-in, but (for when it matters) you're trading "cutting
>> edge" for a little more convenience. (A trade I don't mind making.) In
>> Linux Mint, if I install EasyEffects (for example), I'll have to use FlatPak
>> instead of the repository (at least in version 21). So there's pros and
>> cons.
>
> You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and 
> the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for 
> applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best 
> with the rest of your system.

I'm figuring out FlatPaks. Basically all the configuration files are in 
/.var (in your home directory) and /var in the root directory. I still try 
to find the application in the repository first.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#681457

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-28 08:28 -0500
Message-ID<f2TbP.94030$0O61.45962@fx15.iad>
In reply to#681447
On 2024-12-28 02:14, RonB wrote:

>> That's probably true. I never got too far into using it because the
>> "legal" license I bought on eBay turned out not to be legal. One update
>> later and poof, no more functionality.
> 
> Sorry to hear that. I, personally, never was a big WordPerfect fan. My
> "favorite" Windows word processor was WordPro, but usually used WordStar 7
> for DOS. (Still do in DOBox-X.)

In the short time I used it, I thought it had the most outdated 
interface. However, its dictionary features were superior to Microsoft's 
and this is very important if you're writing.

>> I swore not to use Firefox but it looks like it's the best browser on
>> Linux if you don't want your dGPU to be used needlessly, and if you want
>> gestures to work as they should. Using Firefox, I can flick two fingers
>> back and forth to go to the previous web page or the next one, but it
>> doesn't work anywhere else. If I use Brave, it ignores the fact that I
>> don't want hardware acceleration too whereas Firefox respects my wishes.
> 
> My brother is the same way about firefox. I've tried Brave and several
> others, but I guess I'm a creature of habit. I don't do any of the fancy
> gestures, however. And uBlock Origin (the full version) works well in
> Firefox.

And it will continue to work in Firefox because it won't be affected by 
Google's decisions to stop supporting Manifest v2. People often forget 
that the base for most browsers out there is developed by Google and 
that they don't benefit in any way from people using an ad-blocker.

>> You have the same kind of choice in Fedora as it relates to Flatpaks and
>> the rest. It's actually kind of annoying when you're looking for
>> applications because you're never sure which version will integrate best
>> with the rest of your system.
> 
> I'm figuring out FlatPaks. Basically all the configuration files are in
> /.var (in your home directory) and /var in the root directory. I still try
> to find the application in the repository first.

The repository version is always going to be the fastest, but it is 
likely to be outdated in some cases. That's part of why people prefer a 
Flatpak which doesn't depend on the distribution developers to update 
their package. It also has some additional security though I don't 
believe that it is really all that effective.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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