Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #346873 > unrolled thread

Developers Not Programmers

Started by	Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info>
First post	2016-03-19 10:57 +0000
Last post	2016-03-25 14:36 -0400
Articles	20 on this page of 96 — 17 participants

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  Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-19 10:57 +0000
    Real programmers use C++ John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 05:09 -0700
      Re: Real programmers use C++ Takuya Saitoh <taka0038@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 06:11 -0700
      the umpteen layers of abstraction inside of the Linux DE John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 06:39 -0700
    Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-19 09:06 -0400
      Re: Developers Not Programmers 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-03-20 20:33 +0000
    Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-20 15:22 -0400
      Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-20 20:01 +0000
      Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-20 20:21 +0000
        Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-21 12:21 -0400
          Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-21 21:47 +0000
            Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-21 17:48 -0400
              Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-21 22:28 +0000
              Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-21 20:06 -0400
            Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 00:35 +0100
              Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-22 09:38 +0000
                Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-22 06:53 -0400
                  Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 13:11 +0100
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-22 09:23 -0400
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 14:41 +0100
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-22 09:44 -0400
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-22 09:51 -0400
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 11:54 -0400
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-22 12:11 -0400
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 22:36 -0400
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 20:28 +0100
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 22:48 -0400
                Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 13:05 +0100
                  Re: Developers Not Programmers Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-03-22 14:11 +0100
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 14:39 +0100
                Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-22 15:57 +0000
                  Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-22 21:40 +0000
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-22 22:25 +0000
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-23 02:47 +0000
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-23 05:51 -0400
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-23 23:38 +0000
                            Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-24 00:08 +0000
                              Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-24 14:04 +0100
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-23 23:37 +0000
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers "Fabian Russell" <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-23 13:36 +0100
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-23 23:57 +0000
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-24 06:45 -0500
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-23 10:26 -0400
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-23 22:07 -0400
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-24 10:11 +0000
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-24 11:32 -0400
                  Re: Developers Not Programmers owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-03-24 21:27 +0000
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-03-24 21:40 +0000
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-03-24 21:50 +0000
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-25 21:56 +0000
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-25 19:43 -0400
                            Re: Developers Not Programmers Nobody <nobody@nowhere.net> - 2016-03-25 19:49 -0400
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-26 01:05 +0100
                            Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-26 14:04 +0000
                              Re: Get a clue ! Microsoft doesn't use UTF_16 exclusively. Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-26 14:42 +0000
                                Re: Get a clue ! Microsoft doesn't use UTF_16 exclusively. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-26 12:27 -0400
                              Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-26 22:42 +0100
                                Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-26 22:25 +0000
                                  Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-27 00:42 +0100
                                    Re: Developers Not Programmers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-03-26 20:50 -0700
                                      Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-27 09:52 +0200
                                        Re: Developers Not Programmers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-03-27 14:56 -0700
                                Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.dead> - 2016-03-26 17:36 -0500
                                  Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-26 20:09 -0400
                                Re: Developers Not Programmers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-03-26 20:52 -0700
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-03-26 02:42 +0000
              Re: Developers Not Programmers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-22 07:25 -0500
                Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 12:52 -0400
                  Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-22 12:59 -0400
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 21:03 -0400
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-23 10:38 -0400
                    Re: Developers Not Programmers Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-03-23 02:09 +0100
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-23 05:50 -0400
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-03-23 11:33 +0100
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-23 07:04 -0500
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-23 08:49 -0400
                          Re: Developers Not Programmers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-23 09:50 -0500
                            Re: Developers Not Programmers Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-03-24 21:48 +0000
                              Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-25 11:11 -0400
                        Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-29 10:17 -0400
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-23 10:01 -0400
                      Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-23 23:57 -0400
            Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 12:58 -0400
              Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-22 20:20 +0100
                Re: Developers Not Programmers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-22 14:46 -0500
                Re: Developers Not Programmers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-03-22 15:04 -0700
                Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-22 21:09 -0400
      Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-20 22:42 +0100
        Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-20 19:22 -0400
          Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-21 01:01 +0100
            Re: Developers Not Programmers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-03-21 08:18 -0400
              Re: Developers Not Programmers Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-03-21 15:03 +0100
          Re: Developers Not Programmers Nobody <nobody@nowhere.net> - 2016-03-20 21:08 -0400
        Re: Developers Not Programmers DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-03-20 21:07 -0400
    Re: Developers Not Programmers Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2016-03-22 14:25 +0000
      Re: Developers Not Programmers "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2016-03-25 14:36 -0400

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#347699

From	Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
Date	2016-03-27 09:52 +0200
Message-ID	<nd839p$3dg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347689

Snit wrote:

> On 3/26/16, 4:42 PM, in article nd76k2$o5$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Snit
> 
> And you cannot even figure out whom you are responding to.

I know exactly who I am responding to. A lying imbecile. A totally dishonest 
cretin

Do you still deny that your "absence" was due to jail time, your conviction 
for fraud?

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#347794

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2016-03-27 14:56 -0700
Message-ID	<D31DA50F.6EB15%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#347699

On 3/27/16, 12:52 AM, in article nd839p$3dg$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
> 
>> On 3/26/16, 4:42 PM, in article nd76k2$o5$1@dont-email.me, "Peter
>> Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Snit
>> 
>> And you cannot even figure out whom you are responding to.
> 
> I know exactly who I am responding to. A lying imbecile. A totally dishonest
> cretin
> 
> Do you still deny that your "absence" was due to jail time, your conviction
> for fraud?

Your error is noted and instead of acting like an adult you throw a tantrum.

Of note, you shall not find examples of me sinking to your level.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347650

From	Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.dead>
Date	2016-03-26 17:36 -0500
Message-ID	<20160326222632.mT6Z5116fwH6@sewer.dizum.com>
In reply to	#347647

Fabian R-r-russell v-r-rote:

> On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 01:05:07 +0100, Peter KÃ¶hlmann wrote:
>
>>
>> Exactly the same, you blubbering idiot. There is no character in unicode
>> starting with a "\0" char. Hence, it is extremely easy to detect as "end
>> of string"
>>
>
> Take a look at UTF-16, idiot.  Every starting byte for the Latin alphabet
> is fucking zero.

Je gotts. Vhen jou use UTF16 jou naturallie hafe to look for ze second
bjte as vell. In UTF16 eferie charakter ist 2 bjtes large. Zo
markingkt "end uff stringkt" ist a 0-charakter, konsistingkt uff 2
0-bjtes

Jou zound as if jou beliefe dat unicode konsists uff UTF16 onlj

Undt jou kertainlie are unaware dat UTF16 kan be UTF-16BE or UTF-16LE

Mitt UTF-16LE (windows) ze 0-bjte komes first for ASCII charakters.
Mitt UTF-16BE ze ASCII charakter komes first, den ze 0-bjte Zo jour
assertion dat "Eferie startingkt bjte for ze Latin alfabet ist
fuckingkt zero" for UTF16 ist v-r-rong. Jou don't hafe ze foggiest
vhat jou are babblingkt about, Snit. As usual

> That's why Microsoft text files are TWICE as large as those on Linux
> (for Latin alphabets).

Nope. UTF16 text files are twice as large for ASCII text files

Vindows handles UTF8 as vell. In dat kase ze files are exaktlie ze same

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#347670

From	Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date	2016-03-26 20:09 -0400
Message-ID	<nd78c9$63g$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347650

Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Fabian R-r-russell v-r-rote:

Organization: dizum.com - The Internet Problem Provider                           
X-Abuse: abuse@dizum.com                                                          

-- 
Your mode of life will be changed for the better because of new developments.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347691

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2016-03-26 20:52 -0700
Message-ID	<D31CA70D.6EA2D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#347647

On 3/26/16, 2:42 PM, in article nd6vij$4j4$1@dont-email.me, "Peter Köhlmann"
<peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:

> You don't have the foggiest what you are
> babbling about, Snit. As usual

At least I am not as ignorant and dishonest as you show you are with these
quotes:

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    Without *any* exception I could not reproduce the "errors" he
    claims exist in KDE.
    ----
Bug reports based on the videos: <https://goo.gl/4GKaP9>.
Peter admitted he is not competent enough to replicate bugs on KDE even when
he sees them in videos!

Message-ID: mv6apr$ko0$1@dont-email.me
<https://goo.gl/JSbhvF>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    | I am one of the few people who literally started working with
    | UNIX, PCs, and Macs all on the same day (sometime in Sept.
    | 1987). 
    Pull the other one. At that time there was no OSX. That came 14
    years later So you had no "Unix" to play with...
    -----
Peter shows he thought UNIX did not exist before Apple released OS X!
In COLA in 1995 I spoke of my UNIX use: <https://goo.gl/TCRJCd>.

Message-ID: mtdqe5$isu$1@dont-email.me
<https://goo.gl/sXbJLw>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter, above this video <https://youtu.be/JFQOgBkCkSM>:
    -----
    Did you make the video unreadable for some reason? There is no
    such entry in Finder. So you naturally had to obscure the video
    ...
    You showed nothing. You showed a video which is unreadable
    ...
    I knew that you would come up with a trick like this. So now you
    lied by not making readable what you really clicked on
    -----
That is right: Peter Köhlmann cannot figure out how to view a basic YouTube
video in a way that is "readable" on his Linux system. No way for me to
replace the video - anyone can see for themselves it is of fine quality.
Peter just thinks posting to YouTube is a way to "obscure the video."

Message-ID: mo9g7c$c25$1@dont-email.me
<https://goo.gl/BIeenM>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    I have a pretty good idea why you try to avoid sites like YouTube:
    They can be commented. And you fear the comments more than
    everything else
    -----

  Snit:
    -----
    You can block comments on YouTube.
    -----
    
  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    Really? Do you really think that your Firefox extension will still
    work? Why would YouTube allow to disable comments? They have
    activly disabled all extensions which tried to do that And the
    mere fact that you know about disabling comments (even if it does
    not work anymore) shows that you have tried to do just that.
    Because you can't stand having comments about your idiocy
    -----
    
Peter thinks a local Firefox extension could disable comments on a public
server (until YouTube "disabled" that ability), showing ignorance one might
expect from an octogenarian newbie. More detail here:
<http://youtu.be/iFFF_DQPgiI>. Note: comments are on. :)

Message-ID: mo9g7c$c25$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/Sux1iL>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    | Heck, how much of the original Linux code is in the current
    | Linux code?
    Very little. Just look at the line count of the kernels alone
    -----
When asked how much original code is in the current Linux code, he says
"Very little", which may be true, but his "support" of this claim show no
understanding of basic logic. The size of the current code is not relevant.

Message-ID: moulb7$okm$1@dont-email.me
<https://goo.gl/YwzD95>

-------------------------------------------------

On being shown this image which makes it clear I installed calligra from the
"Software Manager" on Mint MATE 17.2:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/install-calligra>

  Peter Köhlmann concludes:
    -----
    He grabbed the windows install-exe. And then wondered that he had
    wine not installed correctly
    -----

  RonB, jumping in to back Peter's ignorance:
    -----
    Now we've got the "Snit" idiot installing Calligra via Wine in a
    Virtual Machine.
    -----

These "advocates" cannot figure out the difference between installing a
program via the "Software Manager" and doing so via Wine!

Message-ID: mo6tdk$tvn$2@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/cf1OSY>
Message-ID: mo8g1i$dhq$2@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/GTT5e9>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, about mice and <http://youtu.be/sdSiYE7lbQI>:
    -----
    | My question is if it is programmable by application: in other
    | words, can you have the next / prev buttons work to do tabs in
    | FireFox and messages in an email program and in the file
    | browser, etc.?
    That is the most idotic way to program a mouse. But I guess the
    typical single-taskers (windows and OSX users) who run only one
    program can get away with such idiotic ideas. Linux users who tend
    to have several applications on the desktop would not appreciate
    if the programming of the different buttons constantly changes
    ----    
On being asked how to get a mouse to work best AS you go from app to app,
Peter assumes this means the person wanting to do this would NOT often go
from app to app.

In other words he gets things exactly OPPOSITE to reality.

Message-ID: morg8k$5sr$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/aBJMis>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    Not just that, it can spellcheck in lots of different languages,
    even several unkwown to MSOffice It has extremely good Macros /
    scripting, not just with BASIC, but with Python and JavaScript as
    well
    Pages has *none* of that
    -----
WRONG! <http://youtu.be/-J4axC-JgFA>
You cannot use all of those with Pages, but you CAN use JavaScript (and even
make ties to Objective-C).

Message-ID: molfcp$3co$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/RUvUrD>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    | Open/LibreOffice is superior to Pages as a pure word processor
    | because it does a much better job of correcting spelling
    | mistakes ...
    Not just that, it can spellcheck in lots of different languages,
    even several unkwown to MSOffice
    -----
And yet Peter has not shown any of these languages which Pages cannot use.
The reality is, installing the same files for LibreOffice should work for
not just Pages but the OS X system itself!

Message-ID: molfcp$3co$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/RUvUrD>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann: 
    ----- 
    The apps with "Quit" do *not* exit, they continue to run
    in the background
    ----- 
Had he known how to use "top" he would know he was wrong:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/top.mov>

Message-ID: gq8oo1$u4v$03$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/CcTIAO>

-------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, responding to Sir Slimer:
    -----
    | Anyone who gets upset that Windows or OS X uses ideas first
    | showcased on GNU/Linux don't understand the GPL license at all,
    | it seems. 
    "Ideas" have nothing to do with GPL, you imbecile Snit
    -----

  <http://stallman.org/photos/china/2000/ms_oss.html>
    -----
    But the ideas and logic of the GPL cannot be found in the Open
    Source Movement. They stem from the deeper goals and values of the
    Free Software Movement.

    The Free Software Movement was founded in 1984, but its
    inspiration comes from the ideals of 1776: freedom, community, and
    voluntary cooperation. This is what leads to free enterprise, to
    free speech, and to free software.
    -----
    
The "ideas and logic" of the GPL are tied to Stallman's views (as twisted as
they can be) of "freedom, community, and voluntary cooperation." The GPL is
about allowing others to use the ideas found in your IP. To claim ideas have
nothing to do with the GPL shows you do not understand how and why it was
developed. 

Message-ID: m525j1$pf3$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/GgFCok>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  <http://wiki.debian.org/MultimediaCodecs>
    -----
    DVD Playback
    DVDs are usually encrypted with CSS. CSS is not a codec. In any
    case, here is some information on playback of encrypted DVDs. All
    media players use libdvdcss2 in order to playback these encrypted
    DVDs. libdvdcss2 is not available in the official Debian
    repositories. 
    -----

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    || Not for "normal users", for the most part.  Browsing, email,
    || letter-writing, light "office" work, music, videos, etc. all
    || work right out of the box, even with Debian.
    | Even commercial dvds??
    Yes. That has worked since ages
    ------

Peter Köhlmann claims that DVD playback works out of the box for Debian -
and has for "ages" - even though the reality is it not only does not work,
the Debian Wiki states that that the needed codec is not even available in
their official repositories.

Message-ID: ltb2qd$vbp$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/NM6Kj7>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  <http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332544> Christoph Feck
    -----
    The tab widget is provided by the Qt library. Please report this
    issue directly to Qt developers via
    http://bugreports.qt-project.org/
    -----

  <http://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-37812>
    -----
    Priority: P3: Somewhat important
    Status: Open Open
    Resolution: Unresolved
    Fix Version/s: Some future release
    -----
      
  Peter Köhlmann, in reference to that Qt library bug:
    -----
    That stupid clown Snit Michael Glasser has not the tiniest of
    clues who is to address with that "bug" ... It isn't a Qt widget
    that incompetent "computer expert" is complaining about, it is a
    KDE widget
    -----

Peter Köhlmann claims Christoph Feck of the KDE team says things which prove
he is "incompetent" and "has not the tiniest of clues who to address with
that 'bug'".
      
Message-ID: ljb27t$vfe$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/s0Jr4U>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, referencing his own idiotic quotes:
    -----
    And what a surprise: Not a single Msg-ID supplied by that liar
    Snit... Because *if* he did supply Msg-IDs, anyone could see that
    he has doctored the posts. ... He would be shown as the imbecile
    liar he really is
    -----
Peter distances himself from his own statements saying a Msg-ID is
needed to prove he is an idiot. Done, with links. What excuse will he
make next? A claim to kill filter me so he can pretend to not see this
list is my guess! 

Message-ID: l9af1k$7ov$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/miEeYd>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    Except there are no "700 duplicative Linux distributions"
    It is (at most) about a dozen. The rest is special purpose, and
    not for the general usage on the desktop.
    -----
From <http://distrowatch.com>: "The bewildering choice and the ever
increasing number of Linux distributions can be confusing for those who are
new to Linux." 

Message-ID: jq7pqj$ro7$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/7mTTJw>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Snit: 
    ----- 
    Excellent screencasting software, similar to ScreenFlow.  And
    example of something I find key to its use:
    <http://youtu.be/To4v70huwAU>.  What OSS tool on desktop Linux
    has anything even close?
    ----- 
  Peter Köhlmann: 
    ----- 
    There are several more. Look up "Istanbul" for example or
    "Byzanz", or "Cankiri" The list can grow quite a bit, but
    these are the most used ones
    ----- 
No program Peter pointed to does the task shown in the video. Peter
never found *any* way on desktop Linux.

Message-ID: jkpf9p$545$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/cLC0Mo>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann: 
    -----
    In fact, there are at least 3 programs for screencasting which do
    either without exception *all* he "needs" or can do it combined
    with others
    -----
    | You have spoken of three programs.
    No, I have not. Your incredibly bad reading comprehension is
    rearing its ugly head again,
    -----
Both of those quotes come from the same day and the same thread and were
stated in that order. In another thread on a previous day Peter gave the
names of three screen recording programs: Istanbul, Byzanz, and Cankiri.
None of those, nor any set of programs, has ever been shown to do what Peter
claims can be done on Linux.
    
Message-ID: l9scpl$fig$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/Q85TGT>
Message-ID: l9spoa$5qn$2@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/o6vJcb>
Message-ID: jkpf9p$545$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/cLC0Mo>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    When I talked about Hangout, that was obviously to anyone with a
    brain that it is a mobile app, a class of programs which will be
    more and more important
    -----
  <http://www.google.com/hangouts>
    -----
    Android Devices; iPhone, iPad & iPod; Computers; Gmail; Google+
    -----
Hmmmm, who is right about Google Hangout: Peter or Google? LOL!

Message-ID: l9n635$aga$2@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/t76po2>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    | For example, if I modified a BSD variant and tried to pass it
    | off as "Linux" to people I would be stopped. I know of no
    | example of this but I think it is pretty obvious the license
    | holders would not allow this.
    BSD allows such sheenigans
    -----
The BSD license has no power to override trademarks and "allow" this.

Message-ID: l98q2g$nj1$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/zvo4fv>
    
---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Kühlmann:
    -----
    | I was specifically in reference to "Nobody" and his incorrect
    | claim in reference to the Linux code that "Users can do anything
    | they want with it." This simply is not true.
    It *is* true. Users *can* do anything they want to with it.
    -----
Peter did also admit "they have to supply the source too if they want
to distribute the code". He never acknowledged his completely
contradictory claim was wrong.

Message-ID: l96ad6$t5b$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/IDdPqT>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    | [Shortcuts and symbolic links] are similar in usage...
    They are not even remotely "similar". Neither in usage nor in
    behaviour. If you had /any/ clue whatsoever you would know that.
    -----
It is not as if they are the same, but they clearly share many
similarities. Peter does not even know the basics on this topic.

Message-ID: l97mn6$mpb$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/0UHbhj>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann: 
    -----
    | So when I saw a sign that spoke of a "bibliothèque" I figured it
    | had to do with books ("biblio") and could guess with pretty
    | strong certainty it was a library. Similarly things like
    | "hôpital" meaning "hospital" and "métro" referring to the subway
    | system are not hard to figure out.
    Which does not help you a tiny little bit if you *hear* the
    language ...
    -----
When people *read* signs they need not *hear* them! Peter never
acknowledged his error and made accusations of dishonesty.

Message-ID: l92i71$s3j$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/eAm0cC>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, after being shown these videos:
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PrintFirstTime.mp4>
    <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/FirstScan.mov>
  Both show an OfficeJet Pro 8600 after being connected to a network and
  being used for the first time on a Mac. And it works very, very well.
    -----
    Scanning [on OS X] is not supported *at* *all* without jumping
    through several hoops. This includes hunting down 3 different
    software packages (libusb, sane-backend and sane) *and* installing
    them. Out of the box no scanning is supported at all. This is in
    stark contrast to linux where scanning is supported right from the
    start after setting up the printer

    The same is true about *all* OfficeJet Pro printers under OSX.
    -----    
LOL! Yes, after being shown how an OfficeJet Pro works without doing
*anything* extra Peter still makes these completely incorrect claims.

Message-ID: l31oss$9o6$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/600BHt>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann 
    ----- 
    | When you launch it, the splash screen says 'gimp'
    Nope. 
    ------ 
Peter is wrong, and it is trivial to prove:
<http://www.gimp.org/about/splash/stable.html>.

Message-ID: jmmvqr$efo$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/rGhbir>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, in reference to <http://goo.gl/IjlkV>:
    ----- 
    You both show just *again* your incredible cluelessness. That is
    *standard* X behaviour, you cretins. That Snot Michael Glasser
    knows *nothing* about that is normal, he is the worst "IT teacher"
    of all time. He knows nothing usefull about computing.
    -----
The video, of course, shows things other than just standard X
behavior. Peter never showed any understanding of this.

Message-Id: 4985cb95$0$32676$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net
<http://goo.gl/0R2qow>

---------------------------------------------------------------

In reference to: <http://youtu.be/52fwJ5fEWFw>
  Peter Köhlmann: 
    ----- 
    | What's to understand?  I can't read, write, copy or
    | delete a root-owned folder... but I can rename it.
    Actually, no, you can't
    And stop lying. I have tested it.
    ----- 
    You have to tamper with the permissions to have it different. And
    for that reason DFS claims are simply bullshit.
    ----- 
    I can't duplicate the "problem" on any machine here.
    ----- 
    Since "Lost+found" is not created with the sticky bit at all, it
    should not exhibit the behaviour DFS claims. And I can do whatever
    I want with it on my systems (on all of them), it certainly does
    not behave in any way near that way claimed
    ----- 
Peter never admitted to his error.

Message-ID: ik9hu6$7li$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/LbeLp9>
Message-ID: ikaflj$1us$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/PyNcnz>
Message-ID: ike3nf$2u2$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/iQiekd>
Message-ID: ikbtti$e6r$02$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/P91njl>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, speaking of HTML5:
    ----- 
    And browsers on desktop computers have little, if any, need to
    adhere to such a "standard" which has no real reason to exist
    except to support the idiotic iDevices
    ----- 
Yeah, HTML5 has no other reason to exist. LOL!

Message-ID: ijbl4c$2se$01$1@news.t-online.com
<http://goo.gl/agjo2B>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4683>
    -----
    Clicking OK will restart the volume, even if no settings were
    changed. Changing this setting does not require the volume to
    be reinitialized; data is preserved.
    -----
  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    So You call having to reformat a drive in order to have that
    feature "choice"? Really?
    -----
Peter thinks "restarting" a volume reformats it even though it is
specifically stated no reinitialization is done and data is preserved.

Message-ID: jok7e8$e7k$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/RtL82B>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann, in reference to the term "DHCP network", which
  is used by Oracle, the University of Illinois, DATAQ, Netgear,
  Cisco, and other such groups, <http://goo.gl/C1TpPO>:
    -----
    No, it is technically bullshit. Nobody wanting to be taken
    seriously as being competent would *ever* use such an idiotic
    description.
    -----
So, to Peter, *none* of those groups should be seen as being competent
when it comes to networking.  None of them.  LOL!
    
Message-ID: jr35kp$bif$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/kf6zYv>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Snit, titling a thread where he made a mistake:
    -----
    Skype done.... *I* screwed up
    -----
  Peter Köhlman, referencing the same mistake:
    -----
    Snot Glasser will claim the most idiotic bullshit to wiggle out
    of the fact that he screwed up again
    -----
LOL! Just brilliant of Peter... and he never admitted to his mistake.

Message-ID: k1dtul$vhd$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/j3eShO>

---------------------------------------------------------------

  Peter Köhlmann:
    -----
    Play Services do *not* run in the background. The Update services
    it provides *are* controllable by the user
    -----
  <http://developer.android.com/google/play-services>
    -----
    The Google Play services APK contains the individual Google
    services and runs as a background service in the Android OS. You
    interact with the background service through the client library
    and the service carries out the actions on your behalf.
    ...
    Automatic Updates
    Devices running Android 2.2 and newer and that have the Google
    Play Store app automatically receive updates to Google Play
    services.
    -----
Hmmm, who to believe about Google Play... Peter or Google. So hard to
decide!

Message-ID: la6leg$rh1$1@dont-email.me
<http://goo.gl/bg9e6e>

---------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347550

From	owl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Date	2016-03-26 02:42 +0000
Message-ID	<ghjdi02.af3@rooftop.invalid>
In reply to	#347512

Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 21:50:39 +0000, owl wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Yeah, but generally a proper string-handling function (or instruction)
>> should be able to handle arbitrary size strings, without (at the user
>> level) having to iterate over bytes, words, dwords, qwords, whatever.
>>
> 
> What kind of fucking string instructions do you want?
> 

String instructions that actually handle *strings*, not
just individual bytes, words, dwords, qwords, etc.

MOVSB operates on *exactly* one byte at a time.
MOVSW operates on *exactly* two bytes at a time.
MOVSD operates on *exactly* four bytes at a time.
MOVSQ operates on *exactly* eight bytes at a time.

If you want more than that, you have to iterate with REP.
So, despite the names of the instructions, they are hardly
"string" instructions in the traditional sense (string
handling functions in string.h and wchar.h).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347153

From	chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-03-22 07:25 -0500
Message-ID	<2jd2fbluengpsohu92e8k34nt6asg9eprk@4ax.com>
In reply to	#347121

>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>> You worship a language that still has no String data type
>>> (null-terminated array of chars...  heh!).  That didn't have booleans
>>> until 25 years after it was introduced?

VB "programmer" and all-around ignoramus Dumfsck is ridiculing C, the
coolest programming language there is?

What a shitwit.

Hey, Dumfsck, you should ask your pal Ezekreep if I ever really
thought that compile time warnings will tell you if your program will
work as intended.  Ask him who he thinks looks bad, who loses, when he
spews such ridiculous lies to attack me?

-- 
'(chrisv is) the same dimwit who thinks that determining if software
works or not is accomplished through "compile time warnings" and not
by actually testing the software.'  -  trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel",
lying shamelessly

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347181

From	DFS <nospam@dfs.com>
Date	2016-03-22 12:52 -0400
Message-ID	<ncrt2d$l10$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347153

On 3/22/2016 8:25 AM, shitv wrote:
>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You worship a language that still has no String data type
>>>> (null-terminated array of chars...  heh!).  That didn't have booleans
>>>> until 25 years after it was introduced?
>
> VB "programmer" and all-around ignoramus Dumfsck is ridiculing C, the
> coolest programming language there is?

C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability and 
it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.

To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.

> What a shitwit.

That you are, with your nutcase Zeke obsession.

> Hey, Dumfsck, you should ask your pal Ezekreep if I ever really
> thought that compile time warnings will tell you if your program will
> work as intended.

You claimed it was stupid to rely on testing to know if the program works:

=====================================================================
"This reminds me of a Relf classic.

     "Testing is how you know
      if the code works or not,
      not compile-time warnings."
      -  Jeff Relf

Heh.  One doesn't need to be a pro, to know how stupid that is..."
=====================================================================
shitv, Jun 2014

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/Zyqzyntxo-k/uJQf6Epp5aAJ

Your quote is unambiguous, and unambiguously stupid.  A truly /classic/ 
bit of "advocate" idiocy.

 > Ask him who he thinks looks bad, who loses, when he
 > spews such ridiculous lies to attack me?

It wasn't a lie, turds-for-brains.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347183

From	"Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com>
Date	2016-03-22 12:59 -0400
Message-ID	<ncrtgc$mj0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347181

"DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message news:ncrt2d$l10$1@dont-email.me...
> On 3/22/2016 8:25 AM, shitv wrote:
>>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You worship a language that still has no String data type
>>>>> (null-terminated array of chars...  heh!).  That didn't have booleans
>>>>> until 25 years after it was introduced?
>>
>> VB "programmer" and all-around ignoramus Dumfsck is ridiculing C, the
>> coolest programming language there is?

LOL - turdv knows absolutely nothing about C and unlikely knows anything 
about programming. He's a sorry ass poser calling C the "coolest programing 
language there is."

> C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability and it's 
> *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
>
> To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.

I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be Java.

>> What a shitwit.
>
> That you are, with your nutcase Zeke obsession.
>
>
>
>> Hey, Dumfsck, you should ask your pal Ezekreep if I ever really
>> thought that compile time warnings will tell you if your program will
>> work as intended.
>
>
> You claimed it was stupid to rely on testing to know if the program works:
>
> =====================================================================
> "This reminds me of a Relf classic.
>
>     "Testing is how you know
>      if the code works or not,
>      not compile-time warnings."
>      -  Jeff Relf
>
> Heh.  One doesn't need to be a pro, to know how stupid that is..."
> =====================================================================
> shitv, Jun 2014
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/Zyqzyntxo-k/uJQf6Epp5aAJ
>
>
> Your quote is unambiguous, and unambiguously stupid.  A truly /classic/ 
> bit of "advocate" idiocy.

Like I said before, if turdv said that in a normal post it would be stupid 
beyond belief.

What truly makes this hilarious is that turdv decided to start a new thread 
with that post. And it was fun watching him crash and burn trying to 
ridicule Jeff Relf on something that turdv is clearly too ignorant to 
understand.

Now turdv is a sorry-ass poser who's calling "C" the coolest programming 
language there is. He wouldn't recognize C source code if he saw it.

-- 
>Problem with Chromebooks in the enterprise - when IBM, HP, eBay,
>Citi Bank, etc writes an email, internal document or spreadsheet they don't 
>want Google to see each and every word they write?

Didn't think you had the brains that God gave a cockroach, fsckwit.

How about encrypting things that they don't want others to see?

turdv "thinks" that encryption will magically provide privacy on the docs 
and spreadsheets you edit, calculate and spell-check online. Google can 
spell-check your document but if it's encrypted they won't be able to read 
what they're spell-checking.

Message-ID: <gh8rf81ca9gjjjrt1pghah4tc41t41068l@4ax.com>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347235

From	DFS <nospam@dfs.com>
Date	2016-03-22 21:03 -0400
Message-ID	<ncspqv$5ro$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347183

On 3/22/2016 12:59 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
> news:ncrt2d$l10$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 3/22/2016 8:25 AM, shitv wrote:
>>>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You worship a language that still has no String data type
>>>>>> (null-terminated array of chars...  heh!).  That didn't
>>>>>> have booleans until 25 years after it was introduced?
>>>
>>> VB "programmer" and all-around ignoramus Dumfsck is ridiculing C,
>>> the coolest programming language there is?
>
> LOL - turdv knows absolutely nothing about C and unlikely knows
> anything about programming. He's a sorry ass poser calling C the
> "coolest programing language there is."
>
>
>> C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability
>> and it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
>>
>> To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.
>
> I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be
> Java.

Yes, it's also very good.

Here's a detailed comparison of Java and C++:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Java_and_C%2B%2B




>>> What a shitwit.
>>
>> That you are, with your nutcase Zeke obsession.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hey, Dumfsck, you should ask your pal Ezekreep if I ever really
>>> thought that compile time warnings will tell you if your program
>>> will work as intended.
>>
>>
>> You claimed it was stupid to rely on testing to know if the program
>> works:
>>
>> =====================================================================
>>
>>
"This reminds me of a Relf classic.
>>
>> "Testing is how you know if the code works or not, not compile-time
>> warnings." -  Jeff Relf
>>
>> Heh.  One doesn't need to be a pro, to know how stupid that is..."
>> =====================================================================
>>
>>
shitv, Jun 2014
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/Zyqzyntxo-k/uJQf6Epp5aAJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
Your quote is unambiguous, and unambiguously stupid.  A truly /classic/
>> bit of "advocate" idiocy.
>
> Like I said before, if turdv said that in a normal post it would be
> stupid beyond belief.
>
> What truly makes this hilarious is that turdv decided to start a new
> thread with that post.

Actually, it was part of the 'Beware of GCC warnings' thread.  If you
click the link, then hit the Google back button you'll see.


> And it was fun watching him crash and burn trying to ridicule Jeff
> Relf on something that turdv is clearly too ignorant to understand.

Relf usually defends his strange coding style, but about 10 years ago
he admitted:

"Despite all appearances to the contrary, I'd much rather that no one 
ran X.CPP, as it's a total embarrassment, and I've hardly touched it
for several weeks ( too busy trolling Cola )."

and

DFS: "What are you gonna do when someone inherits your program?  You're
not going to just let it die, are you?"

Relf: "Yes, absolutely, I'd tell the next poor fool to totally rewrite it."



> Now turdv is a sorry-ass poser who's calling "C" the coolest
> programming language there is. He wouldn't recognize C source code if
> he saw it.

C seems to be the best language for writing obfuscated code in.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#347284

From	"Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com>
Date	2016-03-23 10:38 -0400
Message-ID	<ncu9jr$hdt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347235

"DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message news:ncspqv$5ro$2@dont-email.me...
> On 3/22/2016 12:59 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
>> news:ncrt2d$l10$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 3/22/2016 8:25 AM, shitv wrote:
>>>>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You worship a language that still has no String data type
>>>>>>> (null-terminated array of chars...  heh!).  That didn't
>>>>>>> have booleans until 25 years after it was introduced?
>>>>
>>>> VB "programmer" and all-around ignoramus Dumfsck is ridiculing C,
>>>> the coolest programming language there is?
>>
>> LOL - turdv knows absolutely nothing about C and unlikely knows
>> anything about programming. He's a sorry ass poser calling C the
>> "coolest programing language there is."
>>
>>
>>> C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability
>>> and it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
>>>
>>> To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.
>>
>> I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be
>> Java.
>
> Yes, it's also very good.
>
> Here's a detailed comparison of Java and C++:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Java_and_C%2B%2B
>
>
> Actually, it was part of the 'Beware of GCC warnings' thread.  If you
> click the link, then hit the Google back button you'll see.
>

Thanks for the correction. Not sure why I thought it was a new thread.


>
>> And it was fun watching him crash and burn trying to ridicule Jeff
>> Relf on something that turdv is clearly too ignorant to understand.
>
> Relf usually defends his strange coding style, but about 10 years ago
> he admitted:
>
> "Despite all appearances to the contrary, I'd much rather that no one ran 
> X.CPP, as it's a total embarrassment, and I've hardly touched it
> for several weeks ( too busy trolling Cola )."
>

His "style" baffles me. Myself and people I know learned programming style 
from somewhere. Most of it coming from books or from code they see at work. 
For the most part it's pretty consistent. There are minor differences in 
style with how people place brackets, naming conventions and things like 
that but it's all minor stuff.

Jeff on the other hand has the strangest most obfuscated style I've ever 
seen so I can't help but wonder where in the world did he learn that from.


>
> DFS: "What are you gonna do when someone inherits your program?  You're
> not going to just let it die, are you?"
>
> Relf: "Yes, absolutely, I'd tell the next poor fool to totally rewrite 
> it."
>
>
>
>> Now turdv is a sorry-ass poser who's calling "C" the coolest
>> programming language there is. He wouldn't recognize C source code if
>> he saw it.
>
> C seems to be the best language for writing obfuscated code in.
>

Perhaps that's it. There are C/C++ "source code obfuscators"  and maybe he 
used the output of an obfuscator to learn his coding style.

To me, it's more difficult to code the way he does than to use the language 
the way it's normally used.

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#347237

From	Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com>
Date	2016-03-23 02:09 +0100
Message-ID	<20160323020910.68444ba7@maxa-pc>
In reply to	#347183

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:59:56 -0400
"Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:

> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
> 
> > C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability
> > and it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
> >
> > To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.  
> 
> I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be
> Java.
> 
> 
What's cool about Java? I thought Golang was good but they ruined
language with restrictions, eg cannot pass Go pointer to Go pointer to
C function. That is, one can't pass closures as callbacks ;(
This is because they want to make `moving GC` which ruins anything C.
They could solve this buy providing mechanism to `pin` pointer , but
alas no, they just prohibited it. Of course they broke every single GUI
library for Go...

So I look into D now. C++11+ borrowed a lot from it.

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#347249

From	Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date	2016-03-23 05:50 -0400
Message-ID	<nctouv$i9u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347237

Melzzzzz wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:59:56 -0400
> "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
>> 
>> > C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability
>> > and it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
>> >
>> > To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.  
>> 
>> I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be
>> Java.
>> 
> What's cool about Java?

I agree.  It's nearly as filled with gotchas and idiosyncracies as
C++.  It has its own dangers, and many people seem to think it totally
prevents memory leaks (it doesn't).

But it does support "middleware" better, and provides more debug output
out of the box.  It seems to have a lot more 3rd-party infrastructure.

> I thought Golang was good but they ruined
> language with restrictions, eg cannot pass Go pointer to Go pointer to
> C function. That is, one can't pass closures as callbacks ;(
> This is because they want to make `moving GC` which ruins anything C.
> They could solve this buy providing mechanism to `pin` pointer , but
> alas no, they just prohibited it. Of course they broke every single GUI
> library for Go...
>
> So I look into D now. C++11+ borrowed a lot from it.

C++11?  Old news.

<voice name="Dick Vitale"> It's C++14 now, baby! </voice>

-- 
You're at the end of the road again.

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#347252

From	Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com>
Date	2016-03-23 11:33 +0100
Message-ID	<20160323113307.277b4304@maxa-pc>
In reply to	#347249

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 05:50:56 -0400
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

> >
> > So I look into D now. C++11+ borrowed a lot from it.  
> 
> C++11?  Old news.
> 
> <voice name="Dick Vitale"> It's C++14 now, baby! </voice>

You missed + after 11 ;)
>

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#347255

From	chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-03-23 07:04 -0500
Message-ID	<7r05fb926f8qvm4sj2p0oob566n9u74s7j@4ax.com>
In reply to	#347237

> "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
>> 
>> > C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability
>> > and it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
>> >
>> > To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.  
>> 
>> I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be
>> Java.

Wow, no snot, from these two?  I thought for sure that there would be
foaming of the mouth, accompanied by demands to document my experience
and justify my opinion.  

Indeed my experience is limited, but I do like C, mostly because of
its "low-level functionality", as Dumfsck said.

Python is pretty cool, too.  It's nice to have an interpreted
language, easily available and accessible to novices.  A modern
replacement for BASIC.

-- 
"(chrisv) claims (Relf's) code is shitty. Let's see him substantiate
it with some facts and a code analysis."  -  Ezekreep, regarding this
mess:  http://jeff-relf.me/X.CPP

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#347258

From	Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date	2016-03-23 08:49 -0400
Message-ID	<ncu3ed$ncn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347255

chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

>> "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in message
>>> 
>>> > C is cool because of low-level functionality, speed, portability
>>> > and it's *nix heritage.  But the coolest?  That's a stretch.
>>> >
>>> > To me, Haskell or Python or Julia look the most cool right now.  
>>> 
>>> I primarily work in C/C++ but my vote for coolest right now would be
>>> Java.
>
> Wow, no snot, from these two?  I thought for sure that there would be
> foaming of the mouth, accompanied by demands to document my experience
> and justify my opinion.  
>
> Indeed my experience is limited, but I do like C, mostly because of
> its "low-level functionality", as Dumfsck said.
>
> Python is pretty cool, too.  It's nice to have an interpreted
> language, easily available and accessible to novices.  A modern
> replacement for BASIC.

Apparently it is also becoming a replacement for MatLab.

-- 
Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.
		-- Shakespeare

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#347261

From	chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-03-23 09:50 -0500
Message-ID	<p7a5fb9uartp7kck6usso1ntv2m7p9882n@4ax.com>
In reply to	#347258

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> Indeed my experience is limited, but I do like C, mostly because of
>> its "low-level functionality", as Dumfsck said.
>>
>> Python is pretty cool, too.  It's nice to have an interpreted
>> language, easily available and accessible to novices.  A modern
>> replacement for BASIC.
>
> Apparently it is also becoming a replacement for MatLab.

Gosh, so many different programming languages, with no consensus on
which one is "best".  New ones keep coming out, winning converts from
the more-established products.  Just like every other healthy market
on the planet, with lots of choices being offered to satisfy the
diverse needs of customers.  

No "culling committee".  No clambering for reduced choice for the sake
of "consistency" and reduced "confusion".

-- 
'It's so true and this is so sad. The "community" is ruining what
promised to be a great platform.'  -  "Hadron" arguing that
"Freetards" were "forcing a halt in quality Android SW development."

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#347356

From	Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info>
Date	2016-03-24 21:48 +0000
Message-ID	<nd1nam02mq5@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to	#347261

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:50:28 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> 
> Gosh, so many different programming languages, with no consensus on
> which one is "best".  New ones keep coming out, winning converts from
> the more-established products.  Just like every other healthy market
> on the planet, with lots of choices being offered to satisfy the
> diverse needs of customers.  
> 

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

You do disappoint me.  You have no idea what is happening.

In the Microsoft world, which is probably the dominant developmental platform
in terms of numbers if not quality, everything is being deliberately converged
into .NET using what is called, by Microsoft only, the Common Language Infrastructure
(CLI).

Microsoft's idea with the .NET framework and CLI is to obliterate the differences between
all programming languages.  In the .NET framework, C#, VB, C++, F# are all the fucking
same because the net result (no pun intended) of any code is the identical CIL, or Common
Intermediate Language, assembly.

For example, in any Visual Studio project it is quite possible to have portions
written in VB and other portions written in C# and yet other portions written
in any other fucking language that Microsoft has ported to .NET.  Such casual mixing
would be impossible in any other developmental environment.

Microsoft basically sees different languages as a nuisance rather than a blessing.

The Microsoft .NET framework, to any programming purist, is disgusting and irritating
shit-junk.

But there are hordes of prissy queer fops that embrace .NET with a smug joy and
actually see themselves as serious programmers in the traditional sense, but,
as any keen mind will know, they just play paint-by-numbers games with Microsoft's
cheap toys.

Microsoft wants there to be only ONE programming language that they will control.

Fuck all that goddamned CLI, CIL assemblies, and queer-fop .NET "developers."

I will embrace only GNU/Linux.

So get a clue.  Find out what is happening.

Microsoft is the egregious enemy of all true programming and all true computing.

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#347448

From	DFS <nospam@dfs.com>
Date	2016-03-25 11:11 -0400
Message-ID	<nd3k89$tmt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347356

On 3/24/2016 5:48 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:50:28 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>
>>
>> Gosh, so many different programming languages, with no consensus on
>> which one is "best".  New ones keep coming out, winning converts from
>> the more-established products.  Just like every other healthy market
>> on the planet, with lots of choices being offered to satisfy the
>> diverse needs of customers.
>>
>
> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
> You do disappoint me.  You have no idea what is happening.
>
> In the Microsoft world, which is probably the dominant developmental platform
> in terms of numbers if not quality,

What do you mean by this?


> everything is being deliberately converged
> into .NET using what is called, by Microsoft only, the Common Language Infrastructure
> (CLI).
>
> Microsoft's idea with the .NET framework and CLI is to obliterate the differences between
> all programming languages.  In the .NET framework, C#, VB, C++, F# are all the fucking
> same because the net result (no pun intended) of any code is the identical CIL, or Common
> Intermediate Language, assembly.


Apparently there are now 36 CLI languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CLI_languages#CLI_languages


> For example, in any Visual Studio project it is quite possible to have portions
> written in VB and other portions written in C# and yet other portions written
> in any other fucking language that Microsoft has ported to .NET.  Such casual mixing
> would be impossible in any other developmental environment.
>
> Microsoft basically sees different languages as a nuisance rather than a blessing.

Bozo


> The Microsoft .NET framework, to any programming purist, is disgusting and irritating
> shit-junk.
>
> But there are hordes of prissy queer fops that embrace .NET with a smug joy and
> actually see themselves as serious programmers in the traditional sense, but,
> as any keen mind will know, they just play paint-by-numbers games with Microsoft's
> cheap toys.
>
> Microsoft wants there to be only ONE programming language that they will control.
>
> Fuck all that goddamned CLI, CIL assemblies, and queer-fop .NET "developers."

You need to learn the "use the right tool for the job" axiom.


> I will embrace only GNU/Linux.

You will embrace whatever pays the bills, like any good Linux "advocate" 
hypocrite sellout who whines about MS and Windows by night, but uses 
their products to make a living by day.


> So get a clue.  Find out what is happening.
>
> Microsoft is the egregious enemy of all true programming and all true computing.

Fabian Russell:  Programming Purist. Drama queen. Virgin.

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#348005

From	DFS <nospam@dfs.com>
Date	2016-03-29 10:17 -0400
Message-ID	<nde2j8$bid$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#347255

On 3/23/2016 8:04 AM, shitv wrote:

> "(chrisv) claims (Relf's) code is shitty. Let's see him substantiate
> it with some facts and a code analysis."  -  Ezekreep, regarding this
> mess:http://jeff-relf.me/X.CPP


Why was/is it "shitty", turd?  You claimed that, but ran away when asked 
to explain why.

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csiph-web

Developers Not Programmers

Contents

#347699

#347794

#347650

#347670

#347691

#347550

#347153

#347181

#347183

#347235

#347284

#347237

#347249

#347252

#347255

#347258

#347261

#347356

#347448

#348005