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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #450345 > unrolled thread

Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims?

Started bySnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
First post2018-05-03 20:56 -0700
Last post2018-05-04 17:41 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 64 — 7 participants

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Contents

  Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-03 20:56 -0700
    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-05-04 04:07 +0000
      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-03 21:10 -0700
        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-05-04 04:33 +0000
          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 05:39 +0000
      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> - 2018-05-04 09:12 -0400
        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-04 09:00 -0500
          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> - 2018-05-04 10:11 -0400
          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:19 -0700
            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 14:30 +0000
              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:43 -0600
                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 14:54 +0000
                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:00 -0700
        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 14:28 +0000
      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> - 2018-05-04 09:19 -0400
        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 14:28 +0000
          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:45 -0600
            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 14:54 +0000
              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 09:20 -0600
                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 15:27 +0000
                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 09:30 -0600
                    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 08:37 -0700
                      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:51 -0700
                        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 09:03 -0700
                          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:18 -0600
                            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 09:32 -0700
                              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-05-04 16:40 +0000
                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:41 -0600
                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 10:01 -0700
                                    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 11:05 -0600
                                      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 12:36 -0700
                                        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 13:08 -0700
                                          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 14:13 -0700
                                            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 14:40 -0700
                                              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 16:50 -0700
                                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 18:53 -0700
                                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 10:21 -0600
                                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 10:37 -0700
                                                    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 11:19 -0700
                                                      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 11:31 -0700
                                                        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 12:03 -0700
                                                          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 12:58 -0700
                                                            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 13:15 -0700
                                                              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 13:19 -0700
                                                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 13:25 -0700
                                                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 13:42 -0700
                                                                    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 13:56 -0700
                                                                      Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 15:40 -0600
                                                                        Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-05 17:27 -0700
                                                                          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 14:22 -0700
                                                                            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-07 14:29 -0700
                                                                              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 14:38 -0700
                                                                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-07 14:42 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 14:54 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 04:33 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 02:46 -0700
                                                                            Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-07 14:30 -0700
                                                                              Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 15:20 -0700
                                          Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 16:31 -0700
                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 10:06 -0700
                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 11:16 -0600
                                    Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-04 12:34 -0700
                                  Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:48 -0700
                                Re: Who wants to control people more: American Christians or Muslims? Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> - 2018-05-04 17:41 -0400

Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4  Next page →


#450411

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 09:30 -0600
Message-ID<pchub3$gtt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#450410
On 2018-05-04 15:27:07 +0000, Snit said:

> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-05-04 14:54:28 +0000, Snit said:
>> 
>>> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-05-04 14:28:52 +0000, Snit said:
>>>> 
>>>>> Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 04:07:50 +0000 (UTC), owl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <http://www.newsweek.com/muslim-white-evangelical-gay-marriage-907627>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Seems the Christians do, at least in this case.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ask the folks at Pulse Nightclub.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Are there any counter
>>>>>>>> examples where American Muslims, in general, want to push their religion
>>>>>>>> or otherwise control the lives of others more than do American Christians?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> LOL!  Wait until they exceed the 7 percent threshold!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just want to add that it's not a coincidence Montreal is filled with
>>>>>> Lebanese and Armenian people. Both were systematically wiped out by
>>>>>> Muslims and whoever could made it to Canada in the hope of having a
>>>>>> chance at life. The religion brings absolute death wherever it is
>>>>>> accepted and only historical dimwits like Michael Glasser believe that
>>>>>> there is no harm in them coming despite the countless examples of
>>>>>> their murderous ways. One need only look at how India was changed as a
>>>>>> result of the hundreds of wars Muslims waged against the innocent
>>>>>> Hindus over a course of hunndreds of years. You'd have to be a fool to
>>>>>> believe that it was merely a "misunderstanding."
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you think, historically, Christians have been better?
>>>> 
>>>> How big a factor would history be if the number was 77% in your
>>>> neighborhood? You have daughters, right?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your religion is fine. Just don’t push it onto others. I do not care beyond
>>> that.
>> 
>> I don't practice one, but the point is, *who* is doing the pushing.
>> You're able to say what you are about Christians because they
>> are the dominant religion in this country. I suspect if the Muslim
>> religion was the dominant one, you'd be begging for the return
>> of Christianity.
>> 
>> 
> 
> I don’t want either pushing their religion. In the US a higher percentage
> of Christians push there special entitlements for heterosexual view.

You don't get a choice on whether or not a group pushes their 
religiion. All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal 
perspective; for the rest it's out of your control. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450414

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 08:37 -0700
Message-ID<fl3d1rF4benU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450411
On 5/4/18 8:30 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
...
>> I don’t want either pushing their religion. In the US a higher percentage
>> of Christians push there special entitlements for heterosexual view.
> 
> You don't get a choice on whether or not a group pushes their religiion. 

Well, I get to vote but, sure, some will always push. Right now 
conservative Christians are pushing against equal rights in not just 
higher numbers but higher percentages than are Muslims, at least in the 
area of marriage.

> All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective; for 
> the rest it's out of your control.

Water is wet.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450415

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 08:51 -0700
Message-ID<bfdfc504-bb74-4e62-99a2-3c444d3015fa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#450414
On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:37:34 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/4/18 8:30 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> ...
> >> I don’t want either pushing their religion. In the US a higher percentage
> >> of Christians push there special entitlements for heterosexual view.
> > 
> > You don't get a choice on whether or not a group pushes their religiion. 
> 
> Well, I get to vote

Of course, which is *why* I immediately followed it with:

"All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective"

> but, sure, some will always push. Right now 
> conservative Christians are pushing against equal rights in not just 
> higher numbers but higher percentages than are Muslims, at least in the 
> area of marriage.
> 
> > All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective; for 
> > the rest it's out of your control.
> 
> Water is wet.

I don't understand why you've broken the text up here like you 
have, but If you're trying to say your vote would be worthless 
against large groups, I'd tend to agree. Or maybe you were just
commenting solely on "the rest it's out of your control"? In any 
event, the remaining questions include: 

Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the 
population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it 
(whatever your answer is)?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450417

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 09:03 -0700
Message-ID<fl3ehtF4kjtU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450415
On 5/4/18 8:51 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:37:34 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/4/18 8:30 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> ...
>>>> I don’t want either pushing their religion. In the US a higher percentage
>>>> of Christians push there special entitlements for heterosexual view.
>>>
>>> You don't get a choice on whether or not a group pushes their religiion..
>>
>> Well, I get to vote
> 
> Of course, which is *why* I immediately followed it with:
> 
> "All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective"
> 
>> but, sure, some will always push. Right now
>> conservative Christians are pushing against equal rights in not just
>> higher numbers but higher percentages than are Muslims, at least in the
>> area of marriage.
>>
>>> All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective; for
>>> the rest it's out of your control.
>>
>> Water is wet.
> 
> I don't understand why you've broken the text up here like you
> have, but If you're trying to say your vote would be worthless
> against large groups, I'd tend to agree. Or maybe you were just
> commenting solely on "the rest it's out of your control"? In any
> event, the remaining questions include:
> 
> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
> (whatever your answer is)?
> 
Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears that, 
currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages) than are 
Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and NOT Muslims. 
If you look at many of their Christian groups they are also fairly open 
to equal rights (in this area).

Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative 
(pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements). I 
would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450421

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 10:18 -0600
Message-ID<pci156$614$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#450417
On 2018-05-04 16:03:09 +0000, Snit said:

> On 5/4/18 8:51 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:37:34 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>> On 5/4/18 8:30 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>> I don’t want either pushing their religion. In the US a higher percentage
>>>>> of Christians push there special entitlements for heterosexual view.
>>>> 
>>>> You don't get a choice on whether or not a group pushes their religiion..
>>> 
>>> Well, I get to vote
>> 
>> Of course, which is *why* I immediately followed it with:
>> 
>> "All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective"
>> 
>>> but, sure, some will always push. Right now
>>> conservative Christians are pushing against equal rights in not just
>>> higher numbers but higher percentages than are Muslims, at least in the
>>> area of marriage.
>>> 
>>>> All you get is a say is on how they do it from a legal perspective; for
>>>> the rest it's out of your control.
>>> 
>>> Water is wet.
>> 
>> I don't understand why you've broken the text up here like you
>> have, but If you're trying to say your vote would be worthless
>> against large groups, I'd tend to agree. Or maybe you were just
>> commenting solely on "the rest it's out of your control"? In any
>> event, the remaining questions include:
>> 
>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>> (whatever your answer is)?
>> 
> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears that, 
> currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages) than are 
> Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and NOT Muslims. 
> If you look at many of their Christian groups they are also fairly open 
> to equal rights (in this area).
> 
> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative 
> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements). 
> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.

We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will decide 
the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to 
become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway. The 
question is really geared more towards how your offspring are affected 
and how you feel about that, given Muslims are, as you say, "more 
conservative".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450424

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 09:32 -0700
Message-ID<fl3g9qF53dsU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450421
On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>>> (whatever your answer is)?
>>>
>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears 
>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages) 
>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and 
>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are 
>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
>>
>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative 
>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements). 
>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
> 
> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will decide 
> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to 
> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.

What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the one we 
already have with Christians?

Really the bigger issue we have is growing income inequality tied to 
redistribution of money to the very rich. When you have that you get 
hopelessness, civil unrest, fear, and conservationism grows. Equal 
rights are restricted and large numbers of people blame each other for 
their problems. We see that already with people blaming immigrants 
(legal or not), blacks, the poor, Jews, gays, etc. They fail to see they 
have a lot more in common with these groups than they do the 1% who 
siphons off most of the new wealth in the nation.

> The 
> question is really geared more towards how your offspring are affected 
> and how you feel about that, given Muslims are, as you say, "more 
> conservative".

I am far more worried about the abuses from the corporations and the 
very wealthy than I am any religion... if we have liberal financial 
policy (pushing a stronger tie between hard work / productivity and 
financial gain) and strong safety nets for those who need them (while 
maintaining our low levels of abuse) then we will see prosperity.

We also need to fund infrastructure and investments in the future 
(something Obama and Trump promised but Obama did little for, even with 
the massive stimulus packages) and Trump likely will also not do.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450426

Fromowl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Date2018-05-04 16:40 +0000
Message-ID<sazb908793g.u@rooftop.invalid>
In reply to#450424
Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>>>> (whatever your answer is)?
>>>>
>>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears 
>>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages) 
>>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and 
>>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are 
>>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
>>>
>>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative 
>>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements). 
>>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
>> 
>> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will decide 
>> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to 
>> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.
> 
> What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the one we 
> already have with Christians?
> 

OMG.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450427

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 10:41 -0600
Message-ID<pci2gn$f5f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#450426
On 2018-05-04 16:40:57 +0000, owl said:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>>>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>>>>> (whatever your answer is)?
>>>>> 
>>>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears
>>>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages)
>>>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and
>>>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are
>>>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
>>>> 
>>>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative
>>>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements).
>>>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
>>> 
>>> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will decide
>>> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to
>>> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.
>> 
>> What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the one we
>> already have with Christians?
>> 
> 
> OMG.

He's overflowing with propganda ;)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450429

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 10:01 -0700
Message-ID<fl3i03F5fdfU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450427
On 5/4/18 9:41 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On 2018-05-04 16:40:57 +0000, owl said:
> 
>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>>>>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>>>>>> (whatever your answer is)?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears
>>>>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages)
>>>>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and
>>>>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are
>>>>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
>>>>>
>>>>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative
>>>>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements).
>>>>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
>>>>
>>>> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will decide
>>>> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to
>>>> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.
>>>
>>> What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the one we
>>> already have with Christians?
>>>
>>
>> OMG.
> 
> He's overflowing with propganda ;)
> 
> 
I am overflowing with equal rights. I know, this is completely contrary 
to common conservative thought (though I want to be clear, not all... I 
do know some conservatives who are very much into equal rights).

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450431

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 11:05 -0600
Message-ID<pci3s1$oq9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#450429
On 2018-05-04 17:01:55 +0000, Snit said:

> On 5/4/18 9:41 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On 2018-05-04 16:40:57 +0000, owl said:
>> 
>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>>>>>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>>>>>>> (whatever your answer is)?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears
>>>>>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages)
>>>>>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and
>>>>>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are
>>>>>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative
>>>>>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special entitlements).
>>>>>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will decide
>>>>> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to
>>>>> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the one we
>>>> already have with Christians?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> OMG.
>> 
>> He's overflowing with propganda ;)
>> 
>> 
> I am overflowing with equal rights.

If there's one thing Muslim countries are known for, even the ones that 
are doing relatively well, it's equal rights ;)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450438

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 12:36 -0700
Message-ID<fl3r1bF7ee9U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450431
On 5/4/18 10:05 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On 2018-05-04 17:01:55 +0000, Snit said:
> 
>> On 5/4/18 9:41 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On 2018-05-04 16:40:57 +0000, owl said:
>>>
>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
>>>>>>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
>>>>>>>> (whatever your answer is)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears
>>>>>>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages)
>>>>>>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and
>>>>>>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are
>>>>>>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative
>>>>>>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special 
>>>>>>> entitlements).
>>>>>>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will 
>>>>>> decide
>>>>>> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to
>>>>>> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the 
>>>>> one we
>>>>> already have with Christians?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OMG.
>>>
>>> He's overflowing with propganda ;)
>>>
>>>
>> I am overflowing with equal rights.
> 
> If there's one thing Muslim countries are known for, even the ones that 
> are doing relatively well, it's equal rights ;)
> 
> 
Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think (which 
is not to say it is of no concern):

<http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/25/ben-carson/ben-carson-do-any-muslim-countries-have-womens-rig/> 
OR <https://goo.gl/yu7eCP>

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450439

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 13:08 -0700
Message-ID<78199341-5734-4f91-a7bb-86b339a24029@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#450438
On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 1:36:15 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/4/18 10:05 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On 2018-05-04 17:01:55 +0000, Snit said:
> > 
> >> On 5/4/18 9:41 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>> On 2018-05-04 16:40:57 +0000, owl said:
> >>>
> >>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 5/4/18 9:18 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Do you believe you'd like it more or less if the majority of the
> >>>>>>>> population were Muslim?  And why do you believe it
> >>>>>>>> (whatever your answer is)?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Depends on the people involved. With the poll I showed it appears
> >>>>>>> that, currently, Christians are pushing more (in higher percentages)
> >>>>>>> than are Muslims. BUT that is breaking down Christians by group and
> >>>>>>> NOT Muslims. If you look at many of their Christian groups they are
> >>>>>>> also fairly open to equal rights (in this area).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Overall, worldwide, I believe Muslims tend to be more conservative
> >>>>>>> (pushing against equal rights and for their own special 
> >>>>>>> entitlements).
> >>>>>>> I would not want to see that growing in the US... from ANY group.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We're not going to get a choice there, Muslims birth rates will 
> >>>>>> decide
> >>>>>> the issue. By the time the percentage becomes large enough for it to
> >>>>>> become any kind of major problem you'll probably be dead anyway.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What makes you think it will be any bigger of a problem than the 
> >>>>> one we
> >>>>> already have with Christians?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> OMG.
> >>>
> >>> He's overflowing with propganda ;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I am overflowing with equal rights.
> > 
> > If there's one thing Muslim countries are known for, even the ones that 
> > are doing relatively well, it's equal rights ;)
> > 
> > 
> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think 

As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:

<https://telegraphtravel.carto.com/viz/08983a43-b45c-4a28-b4a2-680b7441eea0/public_map>

To explain that blue in SA:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_South_Africa>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450448

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 14:13 -0700
Message-ID<fl40omF8leeU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450439
On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:

I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450449

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 14:40 -0700
Message-ID<7dad015f-e176-4410-bcdc-f50a9770400d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#450448
On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
> > As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
> 
> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".

LOL!

The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They 
rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS 
in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450459

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-04 16:50 -0700
Message-ID<fl49v0Fahm7U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450449
On 5/4/18 2:40 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
>>> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
>>
>> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".
> 
> LOL!
> 
> The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
> You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They
> rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS
> in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.
> 
Where do they rate ANY politician as honest or not? They rate STATEMENTS 
as honest or not, but as far as I know not politicians.

As far as Clinton, she is deeply dishonest... but she does so with 
innuendo and  distraction and conveniently "forgetting" things. Trump is 
not nearly as good of a liar so he is found to have many more lies. He, 
though, is not trained as a lawyer... and really is not as smart as 
Clinton. As evil as she is she is a very smart person.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450488

FromSteven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-04 18:53 -0700
Message-ID<a923c310-0f96-4730-8ede-9dfb11b50ed4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#450459
On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 4:51:00 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> On 5/4/18 2:40 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> >> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
> >>> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
> >>
> >> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".
> > 
> > LOL!
> > 
> > The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
> > You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They
> > rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS
> > in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.
> > 
> Where do they rate ANY politician as honest or not? They rate STATEMENTS 
> as honest or not, but as far as I know not politicians.
> 
> As far as Clinton, she is deeply dishonest... but she does so with 
> innuendo and  distraction and conveniently "forgetting" things. Trump is 
> not nearly as good of a liar so he is found to have many more lies. He, 
> though, is not trained as a lawyer... and really is not as smart as 
> Clinton. As evil as she is she is a very smart person.
> 
> -- 
> Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
> cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
> somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
> 
> They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
> 
> <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>



Can you get over it? I think it is already over. It's his problem and he has to want to deal with it. Obviously he would rather blame Calum than face reality. 

Just absurd trolling. And I am rewarding that trolling. THAT is what the "Jonas Eklundh Communication circus" is. 

Jonas Eklundh Communication is trying ("very" hard) to project their crap onto Calum. For some time Jonas Eklundh Communication has pressed the belief that Calum needs 'witnesses' to point out all his deception. The fact is that nobody needs any documentation to do that. So Jonas Eklundh Communication pulls this bizarre ad hominem poppycock in a feeble effort to 'sell' the idea that Calum is like him. 



-- 
E-commerce Simplified
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.system/6m_7Z7rQ6Hg
https://youtu.be/E3m_i-x92D0
http://www.5z8.info/how-to-build-a-bomb_h2o1be_peepshow
Jonas Eklundh

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450513

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-05 10:21 -0600
Message-ID<pcklmj$jsr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#450459
On 2018-05-04 23:50:56 +0000, Snit said:

> On 5/4/18 2:40 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
>>>> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
>>> 
>>> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".
>> 
>> LOL!
>> 
>> The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
>> You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They
>> rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS
>> in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.
>> 
> Where do they rate ANY politician as honest or not? They rate 
> STATEMENTS as honest or not, but as far as I know not politicians.

There are 3rd parties that analyze their conclusions on the whole. When 
you look at the whole a pattern emerges.

In a famous example of how they do what they do, the Ron Paul 1913 
income tax claim was labeled as "Half true". Some democrat made the 
same claim and it was rated "Mostly true". Politifact was even forced 
to walk it back when this was pointed out... and they weren't even 
forthcoming in *why* they 'reconsidered' it:

<https://me.me/i/half-true-ron-paul-pol-act-says-the-u-s-federal-3128238>

From Politifact:
"Correction (Dec. 20, 2016): This fact-check initially published on 
Aug. 24, 2015, and was rated Mostly True. Upon reconsideration, we are 
changing our ruling to Half True. The text of the fact-check is 
unchanged."

<http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/aug/24/jim-webb/jim-webb-says-us-didnt-have-income-taxes-until-191/> 


The idea they're playing fair and square is bogus.

> As far as Clinton, she is deeply dishonest...

Yet, when looking at Politifact claims on the whole, she comes out above Obama.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450522

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-05 10:37 -0700
Message-ID<fl68eqFnn39U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450513
On 5/5/18 9:21 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On 2018-05-04 23:50:56 +0000, Snit said:
> 
>> On 5/4/18 2:40 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
>>>>> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
>>>>
>>>> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".
>>>
>>> LOL!
>>>
>>> The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
>>> You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They
>>> rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS
>>> in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.
>>>
>> Where do they rate ANY politician as honest or not? They rate 
>> STATEMENTS as honest or not, but as far as I know not politicians.
> 
> There are 3rd parties that analyze their conclusions on the whole.

Yes: I have seen people saying so-and-so is X% honest. This is a 
misreading of what Politifact claims. I will even go so far as to say 
Politfact sometimes encourages such misreadings, such as on this page:

<http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/> 
OR <https://goo.gl/VM5dN7>

Still, if you look at their methodology page there is nothing to suggest 
they are rating any given person on their level of honesty OVERALL:

<http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/feb/12/principles-truth-o-meter-politifacts-methodology-i/> 
OR <https://goo.gl/fTuK4s>

> When you look at the whole a pattern emerges.
> 
> In a famous example of how they do what they do, the Ron Paul 1913 
> income tax claim was labeled as "Half true". Some democrat made the same 
> claim and it was rated "Mostly true". Politifact was even forced to walk 
> it back when this was pointed out... and they weren't even forthcoming 
> in *why* they 'reconsidered' it:
> 
> <https://me.me/i/half-true-ron-paul-pol-act-says-the-u-s-federal-3128238>
> 
>  From Politifact:
> "Correction (Dec. 20, 2016): This fact-check initially published on Aug. 
> 24, 2015, and was rated Mostly True. Upon reconsideration, we are 
> changing our ruling to Half True. The text of the fact-check is unchanged."
> 
> <http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/aug/24/jim-webb/jim-webb-says-us-didnt-have-income-taxes-until-191/> 

I certainly do not claim they are perfect. Heck, my "favorite" (though 
unsupportable") example of this is how they rated a Sanders' comment as 
not true when he was asked some question and started his response by 
saying he did not know but would guess whatever. His guess, clearly 
stated as a guess, was incorrect. Perhaps he should have know the actual 
answer (cannot even recall what it was) but they rated his comment as 
untrue... as if he lied.

They later removed that page -- and there is no mention of it anywhere I 
can find so I cannot prove it or get more details.

> The idea they're playing fair and square is bogus.
> 
>> As far as Clinton, she is deeply dishonest...
> 
> Yet, when looking at Politifact claims on the whole, she comes out above 
> Obama.

Based on a misreading of their comments, sure. But that is on the 
reader, not them (though it might be good for them to have content 
better explaining this... and maybe they do... but I do not see it on a 
quick look).


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450528

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2018-05-05 11:19 -0700
Message-ID<9add7842-8ceb-4b39-ae3d-43f685cb65d8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#450522
On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 11:37:35 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/5/18 9:21 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On 2018-05-04 23:50:56 +0000, Snit said:
> > 
> >> On 5/4/18 2:40 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> >>>> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>>>>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
> >>>>> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
> >>>>
> >>>> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".
> >>>
> >>> LOL!
> >>>
> >>> The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
> >>> You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They
> >>> rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS
> >>> in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.
> >>>
> >> Where do they rate ANY politician as honest or not? They rate 
> >> STATEMENTS as honest or not, but as far as I know not politicians.
> > 
> > There are 3rd parties that analyze their conclusions on the whole.
> 
> Yes: I have seen people saying so-and-so is X% honest. This is a 
> misreading of what Politifact claims. I will even go so far as to say 
> Politfact sometimes encourages such misreadings, such as on this page:
> 
> <http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/> 
> OR <https://goo.gl/VM5dN7>
> 
> Still, if you look at their methodology page there is nothing to suggest 
> they are rating any given person on their level of honesty OVERALL:
> 
> <http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/feb/12/principles-truth-o-meter-politifacts-methodology-i/> 
> OR <https://goo.gl/fTuK4s>
> 
> > When you look at the whole a pattern emerges.
> > 
> > In a famous example of how they do what they do, the Ron Paul 1913 
> > income tax claim was labeled as "Half true". Some democrat made the same 
> > claim and it was rated "Mostly true". Politifact was even forced to walk 
> > it back when this was pointed out... and they weren't even forthcoming 
> > in *why* they 'reconsidered' it:
> > 
> > <https://me.me/i/half-true-ron-paul-pol-act-says-the-u-s-federal-3128238>
> > 
> >  From Politifact:
> > "Correction (Dec. 20, 2016): This fact-check initially published on Aug. 
> > 24, 2015, and was rated Mostly True. Upon reconsideration, we are 
> > changing our ruling to Half True. The text of the fact-check is unchanged."
> > 
> > <http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/aug/24/jim-webb/jim-webb-says-us-didnt-have-income-taxes-until-191/> 
> 
> I certainly do not claim they are perfect. Heck, my "favorite" (though 
> unsupportable") example of this is how they rated a Sanders' comment as 
> not true when he was asked some question and started his response by 
> saying he did not know but would guess whatever. 

Sanders was actually ahead of Hillary in one of the 3rd party 
analyzations I saw.

> His guess, clearly 
> stated as a guess, was incorrect. Perhaps he should have know the actual 
> answer (cannot even recall what it was) but they rated his comment as 
> untrue... as if he lied.
> 
> They later removed that page

This is exactly the kind of crap they do, which is why they
are not a reliable source.

> -- and there is no mention of it anywhere I 
> can find so I cannot prove it or get more details.
> 
> > The idea they're playing fair and square is bogus.
> > 
> >> As far as Clinton, she is deeply dishonest...
> > 
> > Yet, when looking at Politifact claims on the whole, she comes out above 
> > Obama.
> 
> Based on a misreading of their comments, sure. 

The ones I've seen are based on how Politifact rates the comments.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#450529

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2018-05-05 11:31 -0700
Message-ID<fl6bkbFodl0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#450528
On 5/5/18 11:19 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 11:37:35 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/5/18 9:21 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On 2018-05-04 23:50:56 +0000, Snit said:
>>>
>>>> On 5/4/18 2:40 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/4/18 1:08 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>>>> Which Muslim countries? It is not as cut and dried as many think
>>>>>>> As not as peachy as liberal propaganda would have one think:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I pointed to Politifact... not any "liberal propaganda".
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>> The way they amass data to produce what they do is goofy.
>>>>> You actually believe that bizarre method is on the level? They
>>>>> rated HRC as the most honest politician to run for POTUS
>>>>> in the last decade, which is *off the chart* ridiculous.
>>>>>
>>>> Where do they rate ANY politician as honest or not? They rate
>>>> STATEMENTS as honest or not, but as far as I know not politicians.
>>>
>>> There are 3rd parties that analyze their conclusions on the whole.
>>
>> Yes: I have seen people saying so-and-so is X% honest. This is a
>> misreading of what Politifact claims. I will even go so far as to say
>> Politfact sometimes encourages such misreadings, such as on this page:
>>
>> <http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/>
>> OR <https://goo.gl/VM5dN7>
>>
>> Still, if you look at their methodology page there is nothing to suggest
>> they are rating any given person on their level of honesty OVERALL:
>>
>> <http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/feb/12/principles-truth-o-meter-politifacts-methodology-i/>
>> OR <https://goo.gl/fTuK4s>
>>
>>> When you look at the whole a pattern emerges.
>>>
>>> In a famous example of how they do what they do, the Ron Paul 1913
>>> income tax claim was labeled as "Half true". Some democrat made the same
>>> claim and it was rated "Mostly true". Politifact was even forced to walk
>>> it back when this was pointed out... and they weren't even forthcoming
>>> in *why* they 'reconsidered' it:
>>>
>>> <https://me.me/i/half-true-ron-paul-pol-act-says-the-u-s-federal-3128238>
>>>
>>>   From Politifact:
>>> "Correction (Dec. 20, 2016): This fact-check initially published on Aug.
>>> 24, 2015, and was rated Mostly True. Upon reconsideration, we are
>>> changing our ruling to Half True. The text of the fact-check is unchanged."
>>>
>>> <http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/aug/24/jim-webb/jim-webb-says-us-didnt-have-income-taxes-until-191/>
>>
>> I certainly do not claim they are perfect. Heck, my "favorite" (though
>> unsupportable") example of this is how they rated a Sanders' comment as
>> not true when he was asked some question and started his response by
>> saying he did not know but would guess whatever.
> 
> Sanders was actually ahead of Hillary in one of the 3rd party
> analyzations I saw.

If just one I would not take it to mean that much... but given how the 
DNC and the media pushed Clinton he did unbelievably well... and is 
still the most popular politician in the country (or was with the last 
polls I saw). Given how both Clinton and Trump were the two least liked, 
I think there is little doubt he would have beaten Trump.

>> His guess, clearly
>> stated as a guess, was incorrect. Perhaps he should have know the actual
>> answer (cannot even recall what it was) but they rated his comment as
>> untrue... as if he lied.
>>
>> They later removed that page
> 
> This is exactly the kind of crap they do, which is why they
> are not a reliable source.

I am OK with them removing pages... but I think it is a mistake to have 
no mention of it. Maybe they do and I just have not seen it... but I 
have looked. Wish I had a screenshot of the page or whatever but not 
knowing it was going to go away I never thought to get it.

I did reference it, I think, on some old Facebook posts, so I *might* be 
able to find more info on it. That is assuming you can find anything on 
Facebook's insane system.

>> -- and there is no mention of it anywhere I
>> can find so I cannot prove it or get more details.
>>
>>> The idea they're playing fair and square is bogus.
>>>
>>>> As far as Clinton, she is deeply dishonest...
>>>
>>> Yet, when looking at Politifact claims on the whole, she comes out above
>>> Obama.
>>
>> Based on a misreading of their comments, sure.
> 
> The ones I've seen are based on how Politifact rates the comments.

Do you have examples.

Keep in mind I am not saying they, or Snopes, or FaceCheck, are 
perfect... but all are well respected fact checking sites and I do not 
think they should be discounted.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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