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wipe and reinstall

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  wipe and reinstall RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-13 16:16 -0500
    Re: wipe and reinstall Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2019-01-14 00:17 +0000
      Re: wipe and reinstall RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-14 00:51 +0000
        Re: wipe and reinstall Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2019-01-13 22:08 -0500
          Re: wipe and reinstall Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2019-01-14 09:24 +0000
          Re: wipe and reinstall RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-17 18:44 +0300
            Re: wipe and reinstall Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2019-01-17 11:19 -0500
            Re: wipe and reinstall Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-01-17 17:09 +0000
        Re: wipe and reinstall Kerry Imming <kcimming@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 11:52 -0600
        digital hoarding Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2019-01-15 18:25 +0000
          Re: digital hoarding Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-15 19:32 +0000
            Re: digital hoarding Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2019-01-15 19:57 +0000
              Re: digital hoarding Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-15 20:05 +0000
                Re: digital hoarding Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2019-01-15 20:20 +0000
            Re: digital hoarding not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-01-15 22:25 +0000
              Re: digital hoarding Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-15 22:45 +0000
                Re: digital hoarding Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2019-01-16 04:03 +0000
                  Re: digital hoarding Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-16 22:15 +0000
                    Re: digital hoarding not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-01-17 22:11 +0000
                      Re: digital hoarding Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-17 22:54 +0000
                        Re: digital hoarding Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2019-01-18 15:32 +0200
                      Re: digital hoarding Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-01-18 01:56 -0400
                      Re: digital hoarding Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2019-01-26 07:35 +0000
                        Re: digital hoarding Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-28 05:10 +0000
    Re: wipe and reinstall "Dirk T. Verbeek" <dverbeek@xs4all.nl> - 2019-01-14 11:36 +0100
    Re: wipe and reinstall "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2019-01-14 12:07 +0100
      Re: wipe and reinstall Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-14 13:01 +0000
        Re: wipe and reinstall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-14 15:32 +0000
          Re: wipe and reinstall Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-14 15:36 +0000
        Re: wipe and reinstall "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2019-01-15 10:22 +0100
          Re: wipe and reinstall Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-15 09:47 +0000
            Re: wipe and reinstall "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2019-01-15 11:13 +0100
          Re: wipe and reinstall Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-01-15 19:42 +0000
    Re: wipe and reinstall Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-14 11:31 +0000
      Re: wipe and reinstall scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2019-01-14 21:52 +0000
        Re: wipe and reinstall gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-01-15 00:33 +0000
    Re: wipe and reinstall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-14 12:23 +0000
    Re: wipe and reinstall kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-01-14 17:21 -0500
    Re: wipe and reinstall J <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-16 12:55 +0000
      Re: wipe and reinstall Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-16 14:24 +0000
    Re: wipe and reinstall Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-17 12:55 +1100

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#17240 — wipe and reinstall

It's not as easy to wipe a Linux partition and restore these days, though
ostensibly with Linux that should be one of the advantages.  I had a Linux
Mint box I wanted to upgrade, so I backed everything up to my FreeNAS, wiped
the machine, and then began restoring from my backup, only to find not
everything worked as I thought it should, and now I've got a chore trying to
figure out what went wrong.

The things I most want to avoid having to reconfigure are: Firefox
bookmarks, passwords, and history; Evolution IMAP, CardDAV and CALDAV
configs, and Cinnamon desktop configs, but those are the exact things that
gave me trouble.  I think one of the issues is actually security: passwords
are hashed using a salt that doesn't carry over to the new machine, so
you've got to manually reconnect all the IMAP and DAV configs.

Then, Firefox helpfully starts you out with a "fresh" profile, which takes a
while to reconfigure (I think they want you to use their Firefox sync
service, which in truth would've saved me some hassle - I've begun using it
now - but introduces security questions of its own).

Lastly, it might've been a permissions problem - looking into that now - but
little of my cinnamon install transferred correctly.  Very annoying!

I remember in the days of fluxbox, mutt, and sylpheed you could very easily
backup $HOME to a USB key, wipe your Linux install, and then reinstall $HOME
from your USB key.  Those days seem to be well and over.  Too bad! Don't
think FreeBSD would've saved me any time either, it seems to be the way
modern Linux apps are configured. 

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#17241

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:16:48 -0500, RS Wood wrote:

> Then, Firefox helpfully starts you out with a "fresh" profile, which
> takes a while to reconfigure (I think they want you to use their Firefox
> sync service, which in truth would've saved me some hassle - I've begun
> using it now - but introduces security questions of its own).
> 
> Lastly, it might've been a permissions problem - looking into that now -
> but little of my cinnamon install transferred correctly.  Very annoying!
> 
> I remember in the days of fluxbox, mutt, and sylpheed you could very
> easily backup $HOME to a USB key, wipe your Linux install, and then
> reinstall $HOME from your USB key.  Those days seem to be well and over.
>  Too bad! Don't think FreeBSD would've saved me any time either, it
> seems to be the way modern Linux apps are configured.

I use FreeBSD, and I wipe and reinstall on each upgrade (but I leave the 
partition with home directories alone).

After system installation, I restore $HOME for root, and anything 
relevant in /usr/local. Everything seems to work fine and has done for 
years.

I use Xfce and claws-mail (so, sylpheed essentially).



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#17242

On 2019-01-14, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:16:48 -0500, RS Wood wrote:
> I use FreeBSD, and I wipe and reinstall on each upgrade (but I leave the 
> partition with home directories alone).
>
> After system installation, I restore $HOME for root, and anything 
> relevant in /usr/local. Everything seems to work fine and has done for 
> years.
>
> I use Xfce and claws-mail (so, sylpheed essentially).


Three cheers for text file configs.  I'm realizing one of my errors was a
permissions error on the NAS - so that one's user error.  I'm half annoyed,
half chagrined.

This stuff isn't easy, even for the experienced, or the over-confident
amateur. You can almost see the allure of 'cloud only' - it's someone else's
problem now, and your problem becomes one of paying monthly.  I prefer
reducing monthly recurring bills, and keeping all my stuff at home,
especially because the generous storage on my NAS allows me to keep just
about everything I want/need.  Not a digital hoarder, but I like hanging
onto stuff I'm not sure will be around the next time I search for it.

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#17244

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:

> On 2019-01-14, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:16:48 -0500, RS Wood wrote:
>> I use FreeBSD, and I wipe and reinstall on each upgrade (but I leave the 
>> partition with home directories alone).
>>
>> After system installation, I restore $HOME for root, and anything 
>> relevant in /usr/local. Everything seems to work fine and has done for 
>> years.
>>
>> I use Xfce and claws-mail (so, sylpheed essentially).
>
>
> Three cheers for text file configs.  I'm realizing one of my errors was a
> permissions error on the NAS - so that one's user error.  I'm half annoyed,
> half chagrined.

Yes, you didn't tell us how you did the backup or restore.
You need to preserve the root file system permissions and owners.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#17246

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:08:47 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
> 
>> On 2019-01-14, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:16:48 -0500, RS Wood wrote:
>>> I use FreeBSD, and I wipe and reinstall on each upgrade (but I leave
>>> the partition with home directories alone).
>>>
>>> After system installation, I restore $HOME for root, and anything
>>> relevant in /usr/local. Everything seems to work fine and has done for
>>> years.
>>>
>>> I use Xfce and claws-mail (so, sylpheed essentially).
>>
>>
>> Three cheers for text file configs.  I'm realizing one of my errors was
>> a permissions error on the NAS - so that one's user error.  I'm half
>> annoyed,
>> half chagrined.
> 
> Yes, you didn't tell us how you did the backup or restore.
> You need to preserve the root file system permissions and owners.

Not sure who you are addressing, but...

The root file system is 'fresh' with the new install. I do have a list of 
any changes I made (mainly mount points). The /root directory is done 
with dump and restore, which just works; in fact, all of it's done with 
that.

I also have a log book for each machine in which I record details of 
anything done to it.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#17282

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:08:47 -0500
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
> Yes, you didn't tell us how you did the backup or restore.
> You need to preserve the root file system permissions and owners.

Yes, you've correctly identified my mistake.

Some family members had different userids on the two machines.  That
led to some files not transferring correctly.  Stupid mistake, but I've
learned my lesson (the hard way).  I've since ensured users on both
boxes are the same.

I used rsync to go between the two boxes, but called the rsync script
using sudo, which meant that some stuff got stored on the NAS as owner
root, which made a mess of things for me.

As for the mozilla stuff, I'd gotten tired of watching hundreds of
stupid mozilla cache files get backed up only to be deleted on the next
round, so I conveniently sped up my script my omitting the .mozilla
directory from being backed up.  Oops.

Fortunately, as an amateur sysadmin at home I fully earn the salary I'm
paid for doing the work ...

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#17284

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:

> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:08:47 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
>> Yes, you didn't tell us how you did the backup or restore.
>> You need to preserve the root file system permissions and owners.
>
> Yes, you've correctly identified my mistake.
>
> Some family members had different userids on the two machines.  That
> led to some files not transferring correctly.  Stupid mistake, but I've
> learned my lesson (the hard way).  I've since ensured users on both
> boxes are the same.
>
> I used rsync to go between the two boxes, but called the rsync script
> using sudo, which meant that some stuff got stored on the NAS as owner
> root, which made a mess of things for me.
>
> As for the mozilla stuff, I'd gotten tired of watching hundreds of
> stupid mozilla cache files get backed up only to be deleted on the next
> round, so I conveniently sped up my script my omitting the .mozilla
> directory from being backed up.  Oops.
>
> Fortunately, as an amateur sysadmin at home I fully earn the salary I'm
> paid for doing the work ...

I get tired of seeing all that .mozilla stuff go by too.
There are only a few files in .mozilla that you really need,
a couple of web searches can identify them.

But I think adding a few of the .mozilla subdirectories to the
rsync exclude list will work pretty well.  I currently have:

 --exclude .mozilla/firefox/ockgphw6.default/Cache
 --exclude .mozilla/firefox/ockgphw6.default/extensions/staged
 --exclude .mozilla/firefox/ockgphw6.default/Cache.Trash

but I still see a lot of firefox stuff in rsync.  I guess I'll wait for this
weeks backup email and take another pass at it.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#17287

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:08:47 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
>> Yes, you didn't tell us how you did the backup or restore.
>> You need to preserve the root file system permissions and owners.
> 
> Yes, you've correctly identified my mistake.
> 
> Some family members had different userids on the two machines.  That
> led to some files not transferring correctly.  Stupid mistake, but I've
> learned my lesson (the hard way).  I've since ensured users on both
> boxes are the same.

More convient this way, but not strictly required.

> I used rsync to go between the two boxes, but called the rsync script
> using sudo, which meant that some stuff got stored on the NAS as owner
> root, which made a mess of things for me.

Did you omit these options from your rsync CLI?:

        -p, --perms                 preserve permissions
        -o, --owner                 preserve owner (super-user only)

Some of the other options to rsync, such as "-a --archive" also turn on 
"-p" and "-o".  But you need "-p" and "-o" on (either explicitly or 
implicitly) and you need either to run rsync as root and the 
permissions and owners will be preserved or you can try the 
"--fake-super store/recover privileged attrs using xattrs" option if 
not running as root.  But this second option requires the destination 
to support xattrs, which some NAS's do, and some do not.

> As for the mozilla stuff, I'd gotten tired of watching hundreds of
> stupid mozilla cache files get backed up only to be deleted on the next
> round, so I conveniently sped up my script my omitting the .mozilla
> directory from being backed up.  Oops.

Yes, just exclude the cache, not the entire .mozilla hierarchy.  The 
rest of your browser state (as you've learned the hard way) is in there 
too.

> Fortunately, as an amateur sysadmin at home I fully earn the salary 
> I'm paid for doing the work ...

:)

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#17254

On 1/13/2019 6:51 PM, RS Wood wrote:
>   but I like hanging
> onto stuff I'm not sure will be around the next time I search for it.

You too, huh?  I wish there was the equivalent of the Library of 
Congress for digital files.  That is, any file they index would be 
guaranteed available and I could delete my local version.  I don't
trust the Internet Archive enough.
- Kerry

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#17268 — digital hoarding

>>>>> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:

[...]

 > Not a digital hoarder, but I like hanging onto stuff I'm not sure
 > will be around the next time I search for it.

	My first Internet link at home was via a V.32bis modem, paid
	per-minute, so it made every sense to batch-download items of
	interest for offline reading.  Some of the local ISPs had reduced
	nighttime rates as well, making it all the more practical.

	Although I've moved to "broadband" (128 kbit/s at first, I
	think) when it become affordable around here c. 2007, and the
	data rate available to me has increased considerably (but then,
	so is the disk space), the old habit remains.

	So, for me, the question is not whether to "hoard" or not, but
	how to contribute back to the effort of distributing whatever
	information I find valuable.  So far, BitTorrent seems the best
	option.  For instance, over the last 26 days, my BitTorrent
	agent served 34.5 GiB of data of 19 GiB worth of collections
	(mainly from http://remix.kwed.org/ and http://modarchive.org/)
	currently available at my home system.

	Were such torrents available, I would've considered joining ones
	for http://commons.wikimedia.org/, http://scene.org/, and Debian
	"pool."  (Though I guess I can still get the latter via Devuan.
	Also, I see that Internet Archive also makes .torrent files
	available, but I haven't investigated that option as of yet.)

	When it comes to Web, I've found that Lynx first saves everything
	it downloads into its "disk" cache, implemented as a temporary
	per-process directory, from where I can Rsync it (see below)
	to a more "persistent" location whenever I feel needed.  An
	agent-independent solution would be to use a caching HTTP proxy,
	yet the proliferation of "HTTPS for everything" made that
	somewhat infeasible.  (No-HTTPS code notwithstanding.)

$ rsync -cb -rOtH --suffix=.~"$(date +%s)"~ \
      -- /tmp/lynxXXXX?????? ~/private/hist/lynx/ 

	For Usenet, my idea was, similarly, to implement an NNTP proxy,
	which would transparently cache (or archive) data retrieved from
	the upstream (such as the responses to, first and foremost, the
	ARTICLE, HEAD and BODY commands; but also likely LIST and XOVER.)
	I'm yet to get to that point, though.  For now, I use a
	dedicated archiver (5677 newsgroups from nntp://nntp.aioe.org/,
	including all the comp /except/ c.o.l.advocacy and c.binaries.cbm),
	and given that it uses a custom format that still requires some
	work (and also that the archiver does not currently honor
	X-No-Archive:), I'm rather reluctant to make my Usenet archives
	available to the wider audience.

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://am-1.org/~ivan/

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#17269 — Re: digital hoarding

In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov  <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
> 	So, for me, the question is not whether to "hoard" or not, but
> 	how to contribute back to the effort of distributing whatever
> 	information I find valuable.  So far, BitTorrent seems the best
> 	option. 
...
> 	Were such torrents available, I would've considered joining ones
> 	for http://commons.wikimedia.org/, http://scene.org/, and Debian

I don't know what scene.org is, and it is apparently offline now.

I've tried to use the torrent links at archive.org sometimes, and never
found them to be working. Regular downloads it has to be. There's a ton
of interesting stuff there. Yesterday I grabbed _Shame_, from Roger
Corman and staring Shatner. Also titled _The Intruder_:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055019/
https://archive.org/details/shame_

(Yes, the link ends in an underscore.)

> 	When it comes to Web, I've found that Lynx first saves everything
> 	it downloads into its "disk" cache, implemented as a temporary
> 	per-process directory, from where I can Rsync it (see below)
> 	to a more "persistent" location whenever I feel needed.  An
> 	agent-independent solution would be to use a caching HTTP proxy,
> 	yet the proliferation of "HTTPS for everything" made that
> 	somewhat infeasible.  (No-HTTPS code notwithstanding.)

I'd really like a good caching proxy again. I wrote one close to two
decades ago, which was slow but workable for HTTP. It has not adjusted
well to HTTPS and ajax and streaming. I tried to hack the Python
mitmproxy for that purpose, but I'm not great with Python and found
video components particularly difficult to deal with.

Today, I don't try too hard, but I also don't watch video in the
browser, preferring to download with youtube-dl and then watch (and
decide what to keep or discard after that).

Elijah
------
mplayer is video watching tool of choice

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#17271 — Re: digital hoarding

>>>>> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> writes:
>>>>> In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:

 >> So, for me, the question is not whether to "hoard" or not, but how
 >> to contribute back to the effort of distributing whatever
 >> information I find valuable.  So far, BitTorrent seems the best
 >> option.

 >> Were such torrents available, I would've considered joining ones for
 >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/, http://scene.org/, and Debian "pool."

 > I don't know what scene.org is, and it is apparently offline now.

	So it seems.  Then again, I'm more interested in
	rsync://archive.scene.org/ anyway.

 > I've tried to use the torrent links at archive.org sometimes, and
 > never found them to be working.  Regular downloads it has to be.

	That's a "problem" with BitTorrent: when no one downloads the
	data, no one "seeds" it back, either.

	AIUI, Internet Archive .torrent files list HTTP URIs as alternative
	data sources, which a compatible BitTorrent agent is ought to use
	when no peers are available to provide the data.  AIUI, Aria2
	(which is the agent I use) supports such an option; not sure for
	others out there.

[...]

 > Today, I don't try too hard, but I also don't watch video in the
 > browser, preferring to download with youtube-dl and then watch (and
 > decide what to keep or discard after that).

	Very much seconded.

	But then again, virtually the only thing I run a user agent
	compatible with YouTube et al. for is "financial transactions."
	(And somewhat less frequently, producing PDFs.)  For casual Web
	reading I use Lynx, and given its "disk cache" behavior, it's no
	trouble to save what I want when I need it.

	I hope to at some point implement a similar behavior for Libcurl,
	so that I can use Edbrowse as an alternative.

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://am-1.org/~ivan/

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#17272 — Re: digital hoarding

In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov  <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
> 	But then again, virtually the only thing I run a user agent
> 	compatible with YouTube et al. for is "financial transactions."

I have employment related requirements for much more sophisticated web
use than Lynx allows. Jira, etc.

> 	I hope to at some point implement a similar behavior for Libcurl,
> 	so that I can use Edbrowse as an alternative.

I've tried Edbrowse, and used it regularly for Twitter for a couple of
months. It's very hardcore.

Elijah
------
has looked at the edbrowse source, but never tried modifications

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#17273 — Re: digital hoarding

>>>>> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> writes:
>>>>> In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:

 >> But then again, virtually the only thing I run a user agent
 >> compatible with YouTube et al. for is "financial transactions."

 > I have employment related requirements for much more sophisticated
 > web use than Lynx allows.  Jira, etc.

	Oh, right; while not a (strictly speaking) "requirement" per se,
	there's a "public" system at work that I use from time to time
	to write and run whatever JavaScript hacks I need to get the
	job done.

[...]

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://am-1.org/~ivan/

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#17274 — Re: digital hoarding

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> In comp.misc, Ivan Shmakov  <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
>>       So, for me, the question is not whether to "hoard" or not, but
>>       how to contribute back to the effort of distributing whatever
>>       information I find valuable.  So far, BitTorrent seems the best
>>       option. 
> ...
>>       Were such torrents available, I would've considered joining ones
>>       for http://commons.wikimedia.org/, http://scene.org/, and Debian
> 
> I don't know what scene.org is, and it is apparently offline now.

files.scene.org is the main point. It's basically an FTP site with a
fancier web interface than most (as such I'd use ftp.scene.org).

> I've tried to use the torrent links at archive.org sometimes, and never
> found them to be working. Regular downloads it has to be. There's a ton
> of interesting stuff there. Yesterday I grabbed _Shame_, from Roger
> Corman and staring Shatner. Also titled _The Intruder_:
> 
> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055019/
> https://archive.org/details/shame_
> 
> (Yes, the link ends in an underscore.)

I didn't know that they had full movies there. I've got to wonder
about whether it really is public domain though. Lots of stuff there
is uploaded as public domain and otherwise freely distributable when
in reality it isn't. I think IA just trust in the message on the
upload page that states that you should have permission to upload the
files, and only take things down if asked.

In practice I just assume that everything there that's in copyright
(a narrower set in Australia than in the US) is there illegally. For
movies, that means I won't download them. For obscure documentaries
and instructional films, it's pretty clear that the copyright holders
wouldn't really care about something they made in the 1950s. Lately
I've been downloading hoards of videos from the Perrisope Films
collection and slowly working my way though.

Some newer documentaries are actually kept, but hidden on the main
site and available via another website that appears to the casual
viewer to be unrelated. thoughtmaybe.com has all of its download
URLs (in the HTML) redirect to archive.org download servers.

> Today, I don't try too hard, but I also don't watch video in the
> browser, preferring to download with youtube-dl and then watch (and
> decide what to keep or discard after that).
> 
> Elijah
> ------
> mplayer is video watching tool of choice

I collect a batch in a folder on my laptop, then convert them all
to Xvid format and copy them over to a USB HDD connected to a hacked
Playstation 2 with an Xvid video player installed. From there I
slowly work my way though them and when I've seen them all, sort them
onto relevant categories before starting the conversion of the next
batch.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#17275 — Re: digital hoarding

In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> There's a ton
>> of interesting stuff there. Yesterday I grabbed _Shame_, from Roger
>> Corman and staring Shatner. Also titled _The Intruder_:
>> 
>> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055019/
>> https://archive.org/details/shame_
> I didn't know that they had full movies there. I've got to wonder
> about whether it really is public domain though. Lots of stuff there
> is uploaded as public domain and otherwise freely distributable when
> in reality it isn't. I think IA just trust in the message on the
> upload page that states that you should have permission to upload the
> files, and only take things down if asked.

I'm pretty sure it falls under the same copyright gotcha as the original
_Night of the Living Dead_ (also available at archive.org). Quoting from
wikipedia to explain the issue:

    Night of the Living Dead entered the public domain in the United
    States because the original theatrical distributor, the Walter Reade
    Organization, neglected to place a copyright indication on the
    prints. In 1968, United States copyright law required a proper
    notice for a work to maintain a copyright. Image Ten displayed such
    a notice on the title frames of the film beneath the original title,
    _Night of the Flesh Eaters_. The distributor erroneously
    removed the statement when it changed the title.

I think there are some 300 - 350 movies at IA, most much older, but a
smattering of 1960s works. _Shame_ was a US re-release title of _The
Intruder_, and I'm guessing the copyright notice was left out in the
renaming. Corman frequently release slightly different edits under
different titles until a movie became successful. This one is famously
the only movie of Corman's that he claims didn't turn a profit.

Elijah
------
the race message might have been too raw in the early 1960s

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#17276 — Re: digital hoarding

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> I didn't know that they had full movies there. I've got to wonder
>> about whether it really is public domain though. Lots of stuff there
>> is uploaded as public domain and otherwise freely distributable when
>> in reality it isn't. I think IA just trust in the message on the
>> upload page that states that you should have permission to upload the
>> files, and only take things down if asked.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it falls under the same copyright gotcha as the original
> _Night of the Living Dead_ (also available at archive.org). Quoting from
> wikipedia to explain the issue:
> 
>    Night of the Living Dead entered the public domain in the United
>    States because the original theatrical distributor, the Walter Reade
>    Organization, neglected to place a copyright indication on the
>    prints. In 1968, United States copyright law required a proper
>    notice for a work to maintain a copyright. Image Ten displayed such
>    a notice on the title frames of the film beneath the original title,
>    _Night of the Flesh Eaters_. The distributor erroneously
>    removed the statement when it changed the title.

Ah, so that makes it public domain in the US, but it'll still illegal
for me to download in Australia where copyright it automatic for any
published work and does not require copyright notices to be included
(though they can be used as evidence of the date and ownership[1]).

On the other hand US films that follow the rules are out of copyright
there only if they were published before 1923 (according to a
generalisation on Wikipedia - reading one country's legal documents
is more than enough to keep me busy, and grumpy). In Australia
they're in the clear 70 years after publication[2], so whoopie I can
download most of Alfred Hitchcock's movies[3] for free! Except from
where? The Internet Archive is American so not there... well to cut
it short the whole web is pretty much american, at least where
servers able to dish out the sort of data that videos require are
involved, so nowhere except the places set up to serve movies to
americans illegally (and they're also blocked by our increasingly
internet-repressive government, albeit so poorly that they can still
be easily accessed).

In the end I don't like using services designed to break the rules
in order to follow the rules (nor have to use VPNs etc. just to
prevent myself from being mistaken for someone breaking the rules),
so I don't download them. Ironically I'm also reluctant to buy them
on DVD because in principle it's a bit of a defeat.

There is a Project Gutenberg Australia for books out of copyright
in Australia. Due to a quirk of history, this actually covers
authors who died in or before 1954[4].

[1] http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s131.html
[2] http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s94.html
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_hitchcock_filmography
[4] http://gutenberg.net.au/newsandreviews.html

PS. A lot of old classic Soviet films have also been officially made
    available for free download. I have to sort out how to get
    subtitles working with my playstation 2 set-up before I get to
    watch some though:
    http://cinema.mosfilm.ru/films/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEK3tT7DcfWGWJpNEDBdWog

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#17280 — Re: digital hoarding

In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev  <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> There is a Project Gutenberg Australia for books out of copyright
> in Australia. Due to a quirk of history, this actually covers
> authors who died in or before 1954[4].

Hmmm. Checking for three books I have interest in, that would be
yes on on _Blinky Bill_ (Dorothy Wall, died 1942); and no on
_Snugglepot and Cuddlepie_ (May Gibbs, died 1969) and _The Magic
Pudding_ (Norman Lindsay, died 1969). _Blinky Bill_ is my least
favorite of the three.

> PS. A lot of old classic Soviet films have also been officially made
>     available for free download. I have to sort out how to get
>     subtitles working with my playstation 2 set-up before I get to
>     watch some though:
>     http://cinema.mosfilm.ru/films/
>     https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEK3tT7DcfWGWJpNEDBdWog

Oh, thanks. I'll have to look at that. I'd be particularly interested in
science and technology stuff. I found some archive.org Soviet stuff but
it was largely kids / general entertainment.

Elijah
------
had some _Snugglepot and Cuddlepie_ merch shipped from .au last year

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#17289 — Re: digital hoarding

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev  <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> There is a Project Gutenberg Australia for books out of copyright
>> in Australia. Due to a quirk of history, this actually covers
>> authors who died in or before 1954[4].
> 
> Hmmm. Checking for three books I have interest in, that would be
> yes on on _Blinky Bill_ (Dorothy Wall, died 1942); and no on
> _Snugglepot and Cuddlepie_ (May Gibbs, died 1969) and _The Magic
> Pudding_ (Norman Lindsay, died 1969). _Blinky Bill_ is my least
> favorite of the three.

You might be thinking that copyright terms are set by the laws of the
country where the work was first published. Actually it's set by the
laws of the country that you're in, counted from the time when it was
first published in whatever country (planet, etc.). Otherwise I
imagine that everyone would first publish all their work in whatever
country had the longest copyright duration.

For example, that Project Gutenberg Australia website offers the
works of George Orwell even though he was British and his works
are still under copyright protection in America (probably in the
UK as well, I can't be bothered looking their laws up as well).

>> PS. A lot of old classic Soviet films have also been officially made
>>     available for free download. I have to sort out how to get
>>     subtitles working with my playstation 2 set-up before I get to
>>     watch some though:
>>     http://cinema.mosfilm.ru/films/
>>     https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEK3tT7DcfWGWJpNEDBdWog
> 
> Oh, thanks. I'll have to look at that. I'd be particularly interested in
> science and technology stuff. I found some archive.org Soviet stuff but
> it was largely kids / general entertainment.

Well those are movies for general entertainment. Most of the Soviet
films that I've found haven't had translations. However some were
originally translated to Engligh for propaganda, I'll post links to
a small few later when I'm near the bookmarks.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#17291 — Re: digital hoarding

In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> You might be thinking that copyright terms are set by the laws of the
> country where the work was first published.

No, I understand that. But I have a very limited number of Australian
books I can think of off the top of my head. And all of those were
posted well before 1954, so it made an interesting example for me to
see what would be covered.

> For example, that Project Gutenberg Australia website offers the
> works of George Orwell even though he was British and his works
> are still under copyright protection in America (probably in the
> UK as well, I can't be bothered looking their laws up as well).

Orwell is a good example:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html

   On Friday, it was "1984" and another Orwell book, "Animal Farm," that
   were dropped down the memory hole -- by Amazon.com.
   ...
   An Amazon spokesman, Drew Herdener, said in an e-mail message that
   the books were added to the Kindle store by a company that did not
   have rights to them, using a self-service function. "When we were
   notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies
   from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded
   customers," he said.
   ...
   While the copyright on "1984" will not expire until 2044 in the
   United States, it has already expired in other countries, including
   Canada, Australia and Russia. 

> Well those are movies for general entertainment. Most of the Soviet
> films that I've found haven't had translations. However some were
> originally translated to Engligh for propaganda, I'll post links to
> a small few later when I'm near the bookmarks.

Hmmm.  I recall once seeing a subtitled Russian animation of _There
Will Come Soft Rains_, a Ray Bradbury story. (Which story is probably
not out of copyright anywhere.)

Checking Wikipedia, it looks like that may be available elsewhere:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Will_Come_Soft_Rains_(short_story)
    In 1984, Soviet studio Uzbekfilm produced "There Will Come Soft Rains"
    as a short animated film.[7]
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	 links to http://www.dailymotion.com/DublinBen/video/5452202

Just as an example of a Soviet film probably of more general interest.

Elijah
------
US copyright terms are unreasonably long

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