Re: Why Johnny can?t code

From	Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx>
Newsgroups	comp.misc
Subject	Re: Why Johnny can?t code
Date	2014-09-04 11:17 +0000
Message-ID	<c6r01uF1r0bU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <wtpNv.60359$Y4.11270@fx24.iad> <c6mpiqF1eqaU25@mid.individual.net> <lmxNv.210456$4%3.175442@fx10.iad> <c6quu4F1r0bU2@mid.individual.net> <lu9h9s$847$2@dont-email.me>

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On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:09:48 +0000, Rich wrote:

> Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:07:25 -0600, Will Honea wrote:
> 
>> > I convinced the wife to retire before this latest hair-brained scheme
>> > to implement a national "common core" with money support to the
>> > schools doing best on a set of standardized tests is implemented.
>> > Somehow, the notion that education can accomplish nothing more than
>> > teaching the skills necessary to producing a student with the tools
>> > to learn what interests him/her has been lost.  That skill I can
>> > teach; I've never "learned" a student anything.
> 
>> Exactly. This obsession with 'coding' seems to be the equivalent of
>> teaching someone to lay bricks without teaching them where or in what
>> configuration they need to lay them...
> 
> The obsession with "coding" is likely coming from the folks who couldn't
> create a program to do something they needed done to save their life. 
> Even creating a simple spreadsheet that performs calculations (a "form"
> of programming) would be beyond their abilities.

Exactly.

> It's the same obsession with teaching the answer key to the standardized
> tests so the students can score high marks vs. teaching the students
> real problem solving skills so they can score high marks no matter the
> questions on the tests.  They see the output result, and teach towards
> the output result, when the true point isn't to teach the output result,
> but how to walk the path to derive the output result.

Quite right. I run admissions for CS courses, and some of the applicants 
have GCSE maths (taught to age 16) and some have gone on to A-level 
(taught to age 18). We normally admit at 18.

In many cases we can't tell whether someone has done the A-level or not 
from their actual ability. Some schools teach it well, but many do what 
you say. So we don't *require* A level maths - we teach the parts of it 
we need (and other stuff such as discrete maths) ourselves in the first 
year. What they get covers what they need in the first and second years 
(compulsory modules all) and then anything else is picked up by the 
optional modules in the final year.

Further confused by different syllabi and the existence of choices (made 
by each school) about which parts to cover; very often the teacher can 
only do parts of it anyway.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
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Thread

Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 10:02 +0000
  Re: Why Johnny can?t code Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-02 12:23 +0100
    Re: Why Johnny can?t code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-09-02 14:43 +0100
      Re: Why Johnny can?t code Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-02 16:40 +0200
        Re: Why Johnny can?t code Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-03 12:43 +1000
      Re: Why Johnny can?t code scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-09-02 15:17 +0000
        Re: Why Johnny can?t code RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-09-02 18:24 +0000
          Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 21:01 +0000
          Re: Why Johnny can?t code greymaus <greymausg@mail.com> - 2014-09-03 14:55 +0000
            Re: Why Johnny can?t code Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-03 18:04 +0100
            Re: Why Johnny can?t code Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-09-03 14:38 -0400
              Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-03 19:55 +0000
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-09-03 17:33 -0400
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-03 21:35 +0000
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-09-04 15:24 +0000
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-04 20:17 +0000
        Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 18:56 +0000
        Re: Why Johnny can?t code Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-03 20:59 +0200
      Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 18:45 +0000
        Re: Why Johnny can?t code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-09-02 20:50 +0100
          Re: Why Johnny can?t code Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-03 21:05 +0200
    Re: Why Johnny can?t code Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-02 16:56 +0200
      Re: Why Johnny can?t code Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-02 16:09 +0100
    Re: Why Johnny can?t code Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-09-04 14:57 +0000
      Re: Why Johnny can?t code Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-09-04 15:24 +0000
        Re: Why Johnny can't code Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2014-09-05 02:33 -0300
  Re: Why Johnny can?t code Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-02 14:08 -0600
    Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 20:55 +0000
    Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-02 21:02 +0000
      Re: Why Johnny can?t code Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-02 23:07 -0600
        Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-04 10:58 +0000
          Re: Why Johnny can?t code Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-04 11:09 +0000
            Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-04 11:17 +0000
              Re: Why Johnny can?t code Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-04 22:58 -0600
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-05 11:38 +0000
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-05 13:55 -0600
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-05 20:02 +0000
          Re: Why Johnny can?t code Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-09-04 14:28 +0300
          Re: Why Johnny can?t code RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2014-09-04 20:27 +0100
            Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-04 19:55 +0000
              Re: Why Johnny can?t code Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-04 22:50 -0600
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-05 11:37 +0000
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-05 13:05 +0100
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-05 15:22 +0000
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-05 13:48 -0600
                Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-05 20:09 +0000
  Re: Why Johnny can?t code Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-03 12:26 +1000
  Re: Why Johnny can?t code Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2014-09-04 00:34 +0100
  Re: Why Johnny can?t code Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-09-04 15:01 +0000

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