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Stupid Question

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  Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-04 21:32 -0700
    off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-08-05 06:33 +0000
      Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-05 21:31 -0700
        Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-05 21:56 -0700
          Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-08-06 09:21 +0200
            Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-06 01:44 -0700
              Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-08-06 13:29 +0200
                Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-06 11:01 -0700
                  Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-08-06 21:03 +0200
                    Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-06 20:12 +0100
                      Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-08-06 21:18 +0200
                      Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-07 00:14 -0700
                        Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-07 09:28 +0100
                          Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-07 15:17 -0700
                    Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-07 00:11 -0700
                      Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-08-07 10:06 +0200
                        Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-07 13:20 +0200
                    Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-11 15:38 -0700
        Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question SAM <stephanemoriaux.NoAdmin@wanadoo.fr.invalid> - 2012-08-09 15:56 +0200
    Re: Stupid Question SAM <stephanemoriaux.NoAdmin@wanadoo.fr.invalid> - 2012-08-09 15:51 +0200
      Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-11 15:53 -0700
        Re: Stupid Question Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2012-08-12 00:34 +0000
          Re: Stupid Question Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2012-08-14 16:43 -0700

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#15272 — Stupid Question

   Out of context code snippet first:
** QUOTE **
     <div class="clear"></div>
     <div class="slider">
      <div class="flexslider">
       <ul class="slides">
        <li class="sl1">
<!--[if lt IE 11]>
         <img src="images/SLIDER1.JPG" alt="Codatron&trade;">
<![else]
         <img src="images/Codatron.png" alt="Codatron&trade;">
<![endif]-->
         <div class="caption">
          <div class="text1"></div>
          <div class="text2">Codatron&trade; Regulator</div>
          <p>Our regulator is so quiet that the charge amplifiers used 
with the photomultipliers need no shielding during bench testing.</p>
          <a href="index-3.html">Read More</a>
         </div>
        </li>
<!--[if lt IE 11]>
        <li class="sl2">
         <img src="images/SLIDER2.JPG" alt="RoHS">
         <div class="caption">
          <div class="text1">Reduction of</div>
          <div class="text2">Hazardous Substances</div>
          <p>All of our high voltage regulators were
** END QUOTE **
   If i edit out all of the IF..ENDIF code and use only one of the <img 
src="images/etc lines, it "works" reasonably well.
   That is to say most browsers more-or-less renders the code as on 
might like (am ignoring that the width goes from the desired 800DPI to 
as much as 1000DPI and shuffles image and text blocks around).
   Q:
   Why does that added code alter how the browser renders things (by 
hiding the top image and related text)?

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#15274 — off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Robert Baer wrote on 05 aug 2012 in comp.lang.javascript:

>    Out of context code snippet first:
> ** QUOTE **
>      <div class="clear"></div>
>      <div class="slider">
>       <div class="flexslider">
>        <ul class="slides">
>         <li class="sl1">
> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>          <img src="images/SLIDER1.JPG" alt="Codatron&trade;">
> <![else]
>          <img src="images/Codatron.png" alt="Codatron&trade;">
> <![endif]-->
>          <div class="caption">
>           <div class="text1"></div>
>           <div class="text2">Codatron&trade; Regulator</div>
>           <p>Our regulator is so quiet that the charge amplifiers used 
> with the photomultipliers need no shielding during bench testing.</p>
>           <a href="index-3.html">Read More</a>
>          </div>
>         </li>
> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>         <li class="sl2">
>          <img src="images/SLIDER2.JPG" alt="RoHS">
>          <div class="caption">
>           <div class="text1">Reduction of</div>
>           <div class="text2">Hazardous Substances</div>
>           <p>All of our high voltage regulators were
> ** END QUOTE **
>    If i edit out all of the IF..ENDIF code and use only one of the <img 
> src="images/etc lines, it "works" reasonably well.
>    That is to say most browsers more-or-less renders the code as on 
> might like (am ignoring that the width goes from the desired 800DPI to 
> as much as 1000DPI and shuffles image and text blocks around).
>    Q:
>    Why does that added code alter how the browser renders things (by 
> hiding the top image and related text)?

Wrong NG.

This NH is about Javascript, both in browsers and in other places, like 
servers, editors, cscript, wscript.

This NG is not about html and the way you use that in specific browsers.

BTW, if you think yours is a "Stupid Question" why ask? I don't think 
this or any Q is stupid, this one is just off topic, so better search for 
a more apropriate NG. 

BTW2, the subject line in Usenet should be used to clearly identify your 
Q, not to air your frustrations on the quality of such Q.


-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#15278 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Evertjan. wrote:
> Robert Baer wrote on 05 aug 2012 in comp.lang.javascript:
>
>>     Out of context code snippet first:
>> ** QUOTE **
>>       <div class="clear"></div>
>>       <div class="slider">
>>        <div class="flexslider">
>>         <ul class="slides">
>>          <li class="sl1">
>> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>>           <img src="images/SLIDER1.JPG" alt="Codatron&trade;">
>> <![else]
>>           <img src="images/Codatron.png" alt="Codatron&trade;">
>> <![endif]-->
>>           <div class="caption">
>>            <div class="text1"></div>
>>            <div class="text2">Codatron&trade; Regulator</div>
>>            <p>Our regulator is so quiet that the charge amplifiers used
>> with the photomultipliers need no shielding during bench testing.</p>
>>            <a href="index-3.html">Read More</a>
>>           </div>
>>          </li>
>> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>>          <li class="sl2">
>>           <img src="images/SLIDER2.JPG" alt="RoHS">
>>           <div class="caption">
>>            <div class="text1">Reduction of</div>
>>            <div class="text2">Hazardous Substances</div>
>>            <p>All of our high voltage regulators were
>> ** END QUOTE **
>>     If i edit out all of the IF..ENDIF code and use only one of the<img
>> src="images/etc lines, it "works" reasonably well.
>>     That is to say most browsers more-or-less renders the code as on
>> might like (am ignoring that the width goes from the desired 800DPI to
>> as much as 1000DPI and shuffles image and text blocks around).
>>     Q:
>>     Why does that added code alter how the browser renders things (by
>> hiding the top image and related text)?
>
> Wrong NG.
>
> This NH is about Javascript, both in browsers and in other places, like
> servers, editors, cscript, wscript.
>
> This NG is not about html and the way you use that in specific browsers.
>
> BTW, if you think yours is a "Stupid Question" why ask? I don't think
> this or any Q is stupid, this one is just off topic, so better search for
> a more apropriate NG.
>
> BTW2, the subject line in Usenet should be used to clearly identify your
> Q, not to air your frustrations on the quality of such Q.
>
>
   So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements 
are NOT javascript.
   May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?

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#15279 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Robert Baer wrote:
> Evertjan. wrote:
>> Robert Baer wrote on 05 aug 2012 in comp.lang.javascript:
>>
>>> Out of context code snippet first:
>>> ** QUOTE **
>>> <div class="clear"></div>
>>> <div class="slider">
>>> <div class="flexslider">
>>> <ul class="slides">
>>> <li class="sl1">
>>> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>>> <img src="images/SLIDER1.JPG" alt="Codatron&trade;">
>>> <![else]
>>> <img src="images/Codatron.png" alt="Codatron&trade;">
>>> <![endif]-->
>>> <div class="caption">
>>> <div class="text1"></div>
>>> <div class="text2">Codatron&trade; Regulator</div>
>>> <p>Our regulator is so quiet that the charge amplifiers used
>>> with the photomultipliers need no shielding during bench testing.</p>
>>> <a href="index-3.html">Read More</a>
>>> </div>
>>> </li>
>>> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>>> <li class="sl2">
>>> <img src="images/SLIDER2.JPG" alt="RoHS">
>>> <div class="caption">
>>> <div class="text1">Reduction of</div>
>>> <div class="text2">Hazardous Substances</div>
>>> <p>All of our high voltage regulators were
>>> ** END QUOTE **
>>> If i edit out all of the IF..ENDIF code and use only one of the<img
>>> src="images/etc lines, it "works" reasonably well.
>>> That is to say most browsers more-or-less renders the code as on
>>> might like (am ignoring that the width goes from the desired 800DPI to
>>> as much as 1000DPI and shuffles image and text blocks around).
>>> Q:
>>> Why does that added code alter how the browser renders things (by
>>> hiding the top image and related text)?
>>
>> Wrong NG.
>>
>> This NH is about Javascript, both in browsers and in other places, like
>> servers, editors, cscript, wscript.
>>
>> This NG is not about html and the way you use that in specific browsers.
>>
>> BTW, if you think yours is a "Stupid Question" why ask? I don't think
>> this or any Q is stupid, this one is just off topic, so better search for
>> a more apropriate NG.
>>
>> BTW2, the subject line in Usenet should be used to clearly identify your
>> Q, not to air your frustrations on the quality of such Q.
>>
>>
> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements are
> NOT javascript.
> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>
   Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?

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#15280 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
> Robert Baer wrote:

>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements are
>> NOT javascript.
>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?

Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional comments"[1].

>    Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?

Did (or how did) you search?

How about

comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html


Gregor

[1]
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512%28v=vs.85%29.aspx>

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#15281 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Gregor Kofler wrote:
> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>> Robert Baer wrote:
>
>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements are
>>> NOT javascript.
>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>
> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional comments"[1].
>
>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>
> Did (or how did) you search?
>
> How about
>
> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
* Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about 
"authoring".

>
>
> Gregor
>
> [1]
> <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512%28v=vs.85%29.aspx>

   However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS 
like it would do what i want.
   BUT.
   Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to 
click on.
   Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
   So, at this point it is totally useless.
   Useful comments?

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#15282 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>
>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
>>>> are
>>>> NOT javascript.
>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>>
>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional comments"[1].
>>
>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>>
>> Did (or how did) you search?
>>
>> How about
>>
>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
> "authoring".

"html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when 
subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or "javascript" - 
no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.

>    However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
> like it would do what i want.
>    BUT.
>    Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
> click on.
>    Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>    So, at this point it is totally useless.
>    Useful comments?

Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you 
restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any 
problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use 
Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar 
(and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.

Gregor

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#15283 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Gregor Kofler wrote:
> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>>
>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
>>>>> are
>>>>> NOT javascript.
>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>>>
>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional comments"[1].
>>>
>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>>>
>>> Did (or how did) you search?
>>>
>>> How about
>>>
>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
>> "authoring".
>
> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or "javascript" -
> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
>
>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
>> like it would do what i want.
>> BUT.
>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
>> click on.
>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
>> Useful comments?
>
> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
>
> Gregor
   OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
   BUT.
   Absolutely zero instructions or help.
   I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
   I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and 
the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like to do.
   Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free, 
what can i expect?

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#15284 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Am 2012-08-06 20:01, Robert Baer meinte:
> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
>>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> NOT javascript.
>>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>>>>
>>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional comments"[1].
>>>>
>>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> Did (or how did) you search?
>>>>
>>>> How about
>>>>
>>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
>>> "authoring".
>>
>> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
>> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or "javascript" -
>> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
>>
>>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
>>> like it would do what i want.
>>> BUT.
>>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
>>> click on.
>>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
>>> Useful comments?
>>
>> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
>> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
>> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
>> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
>> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
>>
>> Gregor
>    OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
>    BUT.
>    Absolutely zero instructions or help.
>    I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
>    I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and
> the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like to do.
>    Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free,
> what can i expect?

I've used Firebug for years now, I can't remember finding it 
particularly difficult to get grips with it.

Browsing through
https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

should give you more than sufficient help.

For a start

- activate the script tab
- reload page
- locate the script in question from the dropdown
- find code you want to debug
- set breakpoint by clicking on left margin (green line numbers)
- trigger events to reach break point or - in case of some load listener 
code - reload page


The debugger in WebKit flavored browsers works quite similar, as does 
Opera's DragonFly (invoked with Ctrl-Alt-I).

Gregor



-- 
http://vxweb.net

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#15285 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

In article <jvp4e6$ku5$1@dont-email.me>,
 Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> wrote:

> Am 2012-08-06 20:01, Robert Baer meinte:
> > Gregor Kofler wrote:
> >> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
> >>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
> >>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
> >>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>> NOT javascript.
> >>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
> >>>>
> >>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional comments"[1].
> >>>>
> >>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
> >>>>
> >>>> Did (or how did) you search?
> >>>>
> >>>> How about
> >>>>
> >>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
> >>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
> >>> "authoring".
> >>
> >> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
> >> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or "javascript" -
> >> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
> >>
> >>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
> >>> like it would do what i want.
> >>> BUT.
> >>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
> >>> click on.
> >>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
> >>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
> >>> Useful comments?
> >>
> >> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
> >> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
> >> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
> >> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
> >> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
> >>
> >> Gregor
> >    OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
> >    BUT.
> >    Absolutely zero instructions or help.
> >    I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
> >    I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and
> > the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like to do.
> >    Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free,
> > what can i expect?
> 
> I've used Firebug for years now, I can't remember finding it 
> particularly difficult to get grips with it.
> 
> Browsing through
> https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> 
> should give you more than sufficient help.
> 
> For a start
> 
> - activate the script tab
> - reload page
> - locate the script in question from the dropdown
> - find code you want to debug

He doesn't *have* any code. He appears to be largely clueless.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#15286 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Am 2012-08-06 21:12, Tim Streater meinte:
> In article <jvp4e6$ku5$1@dont-email.me>,
> Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> wrote:

[snip]

> He doesn't *have* any code. He appears to be largely clueless.


LOL, indeed. Yes, I lost sight of that as the "discussion" went on...

Gregor

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#15291 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <jvp4e6$ku5$1@dont-email.me>,
> Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> wrote:
>
>> Am 2012-08-06 20:01, Robert Baer meinte:
>> > Gregor Kofler wrote:
>> >> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
>> >>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>> >>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>> >>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF
>> statements
>> >>>>>> are
>> >>>>>> NOT javascript.
>> >>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional
>> comments"[1].
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Did (or how did) you search?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How about
>> >>>>
>> >>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>> >>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
>> >>> "authoring".
>> >>
>> >> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
>> >> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or
>> "javascript" -
>> >> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
>> >>
>> >>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
>> >>> like it would do what i want.
>> >>> BUT.
>> >>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
>> >>> click on.
>> >>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>> >>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
>> >>> Useful comments?
>> >>
>> >> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
>> >> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
>> >> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
>> >> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
>> >> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
>> >>
>> >> Gregor
>> > OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
>> > BUT.
>> > Absolutely zero instructions or help.
>> > I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
>> > I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and
>> > the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like
>> to do.
>> > Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free,
>> > what can i expect?
>>
>> I've used Firebug for years now, I can't remember finding it
>> particularly difficult to get grips with it.
>>
>> Browsing through
>> https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>>
>> should give you more than sufficient help.
>>
>> For a start
>>
>> - activate the script tab
>> - reload page
>> - locate the script in question from the dropdown
>> - find code you want to debug
>
> He doesn't *have* any code. He appears to be largely clueless.
>
   The code is on my website, and that is where i must check out WTF is 
happening and try, in my abysmal ignorance, figure out what is causing 
one or more problems.
   So, keeping that in mind, a) incorrect - have code; b) correct.

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#15293 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

In article <N_6dnftXj-KgXb3NnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@posted.localnet>,
 Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>    The code is on my website, and that is where i must check out WTF is 
> happening and try, in my abysmal ignorance, figure out what is causing 
> one or more problems.
>    So, keeping that in mind, a) incorrect - have code; b) correct.

What code are you talking about? I haven't seen any yet.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#15295 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <N_6dnftXj-KgXb3NnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@posted.localnet>,
> Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>> The code is on my website, and that is where i must check out WTF is
>> happening and try, in my abysmal ignorance, figure out what is causing
>> one or more problems.
>> So, keeping that in mind, a) incorrect - have code; b) correct.
>
> What code are you talking about? I haven't seen any yet.
>
   Like i said, on my site: http://www.oil4lessllc.com/.

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#15290 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Gregor Kofler wrote:
> Am 2012-08-06 20:01, Robert Baer meinte:
>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> NOT javascript.
>>>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional
>>>>> comments"[1].
>>>>>
>>>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Did (or how did) you search?
>>>>>
>>>>> How about
>>>>>
>>>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>>>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
>>>> "authoring".
>>>
>>> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
>>> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or "javascript" -
>>> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
>>>
>>>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
>>>> like it would do what i want.
>>>> BUT.
>>>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
>>>> click on.
>>>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>>>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
>>>> Useful comments?
>>>
>>> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
>>> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
>>> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
>>> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
>>> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
>>>
>>> Gregor
>> OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
>> BUT.
>> Absolutely zero instructions or help.
>> I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
>> I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and
>> the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like to
>> do.
>> Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free,
>> what can i expect?
>
> I've used Firebug for years now, I can't remember finding it
> particularly difficult to get grips with it.
>
> Browsing through
> https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>
> should give you more than sufficient help.
>
> For a start
>
> - activate the script tab
> - reload page
> - locate the script in question from the dropdown
> - find code you want to debug
> - set breakpoint by clicking on left margin (green line numbers)
> - trigger events to reach break point or - in case of some load listener
> code - reload page
>
>
> The debugger in WebKit flavored browsers works quite similar, as does
> Opera's DragonFly (invoked with Ctrl-Alt-I).
>
> Gregor
>
>
>
   I do not want breakpoints; it may take daze to set every code line as 
a breakpoint.
   Ideally, i want to start with a blank screen with the URL set and 
ready to run.
   Then switch over and tell Firebug to step thru all code at some 
user-controllable rate - and maybe stop stepping on some user action 
(Ctrl-Alt-F12?).
   As Firebug is stepping,i will watch the other screen be "painted" 
with images and text; when i see something i need more info OR do not 
like, i then press the magic combo (Ctrl-Alt-F12?) to stop stepping, 
then switch back to Firebug to get that info.
**
   As-is, with zero help info, i loaded my website and scrolled thru the 
HTML code line-by-line and found one apparent mis-coding; hopefully the 
correction i applied will work in real life.
   Will have the individual (temporarily) managing the site apply the 
update, and we shall see.
   Browsers tend to render the code differently with regard to where the 
code resides: URL root, URL folder, HD root, HD folder.
   And every browser is different as to rendering consistency across 
sources.
   Add more complexity in rendering "efficiency" between browsers and 
"platforms" (desktop, palmtop, etc).
   Also, consider different versions of a browser a a TOTALLY DIFFERENT 
browser.
   It is a huge array of "howwzit work" that can easily change with a 
minor code change.

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#15292 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Am 2012-08-07 09:11, schrieb Robert Baer:
> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>> Am 2012-08-06 20:01, Robert Baer meinte:
>>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>>> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>>>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF
>>>>>>>> statements
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> NOT javascript.
>>>>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional
>>>>>> comments"[1].
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did (or how did) you search?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about
>>>>>>
>>>>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>>>>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
>>>>> "authoring".
>>>>
>>>> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
>>>> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or
>>>> "javascript" -
>>>> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
>>>>> like it would do what i want.
>>>>> BUT.
>>>>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
>>>>> click on.
>>>>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>>>>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
>>>>> Useful comments?
>>>>
>>>> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
>>>> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
>>>> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
>>>> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
>>>> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
>>>>
>>>> Gregor
>>> OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
>>> BUT.
>>> Absolutely zero instructions or help.
>>> I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
>>> I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and
>>> the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like to
>>> do.
>>> Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free,
>>> what can i expect?
>>
>> I've used Firebug for years now, I can't remember finding it
>> particularly difficult to get grips with it.
>>
>> Browsing through
>> https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>>
>> should give you more than sufficient help.
>>
>> For a start
>>
>> - activate the script tab
>> - reload page
>> - locate the script in question from the dropdown
>> - find code you want to debug
>> - set breakpoint by clicking on left margin (green line numbers)
>> - trigger events to reach break point or - in case of some load listener
>> code - reload page
>>
>>
>> The debugger in WebKit flavored browsers works quite similar, as does
>> Opera's DragonFly (invoked with Ctrl-Alt-I).
>>
>> Gregor
>>
>>
>>
>    I do not want breakpoints; it may take daze to set every code line as
> a breakpoint.

Sigh. Set a breakpoint at the beginning, then single-step with F10 or F11.

>    Ideally, i want to start with a blank screen with the URL set and
> ready to run.
>    Then switch over and tell Firebug to step thru all code at some
> user-controllable rate - and maybe stop stepping on some user action
> (Ctrl-Alt-F12?).

Add breakpoints to your listener. There might be some auto-debugging of 
event listener code, but I'd have to check on that.

>    As Firebug is stepping,i will watch the other screen be "painted"
> with images and text; when i see something i need more info OR do not
> like, i then press the magic combo (Ctrl-Alt-F12?) to stop stepping,
> then switch back to Firebug to get that info.

That's how it works. With Firebug.

> **
>    As-is, with zero help info, i loaded my website and scrolled thru the
> HTML code line-by-line and found one apparent mis-coding; hopefully the
> correction i applied will work in real life.
>    Will have the individual (temporarily) managing the site apply the
> update, and we shall see.
>    Browsers tend to render the code differently with regard to where the
> code resides: URL root, URL folder, HD root, HD folder.
>    And every browser is different as to rendering consistency across
> sources.
>    Add more complexity in rendering "efficiency" between browsers and
> "platforms" (desktop, palmtop, etc).
>    Also, consider different versions of a browser a a TOTALLY DIFFERENT
> browser.
>    It is a huge array of "howwzit work" that can easily change with a
> minor code change.

I've been doing client-side cross-browser scripting (and authoring) for 
several years now. I'm completely aware of these problems. c.l.js is the 
wrong place to whine about that.

Gregor


-- 
http://vxweb.net

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#15294 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Gregor Kofler wrote:

> I've been doing client-side cross-browser scripting (and authoring) for
> several years now. I'm completely aware of these problems. c.l.js is the
> wrong place to whine about that.

He's a certified luser (I have killfiled him a long time ago).  Please do 
not feed.  TIA.


PointedEars
-- 
Danny Goodman's books are out of date and teach practices that are
positively harmful for cross-browser scripting.
  -- Richard Cornford, cljs, <cife6q$253$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk> (2004)

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#15311 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Gregor Kofler wrote:
> Am 2012-08-06 20:01, Robert Baer meinte:
>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>> Am 2012-08-06 10:44, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>> Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>>>> Am 2012-08-06 06:56, Robert Baer meinte:
>>>>>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> NOT javascript.
>>>>>>> May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither (well, sort of the latter). They are "conditional
>>>>> comments"[1].
>>>>>
>>>>>> Could not find any active NG covering HTML..suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Did (or how did) you search?
>>>>>
>>>>> How about
>>>>>
>>>>> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
>>>> * Here we go again; nomenclature. Would never have thought about
>>>> "authoring".
>>>
>>> "html" should suffice. I use Thunderbird as newsreader and when
>>> subscribing to newsgroups I can just search for "html" or "javascript" -
>>> no need to know the precise name of a newsgroup.
>>>
>>>> However,using the baby bird (goo-gull) i found Firebug which LOOKS
>>>> like it would do what i want.
>>>> BUT.
>>>> Cannot follow the damn directions as there is NO grey firebug to
>>>> click on.
>>>> Have no clue as to if it actually installed, etc.
>>>> So, at this point it is totally useless.
>>>> Useful comments?
>>>
>>> Dunno. Is Firebug listet under your installed extensions? Have you
>>> restarted FF? Firebug has been working here for years without any
>>> problems. Hit F12 this should also trigger Firebug. Or use
>>> Chrome/Chromium and use the developer tools there - they do a similar
>>> (and in rare occassions better) job as Firebug.
>>>
>>> Gregor
>> OK; the "tricks" of restart and F12 worked.
>> BUT.
>> Absolutely zero instructions or help.
>> I would like to step thru the code and then see what the result is.
>> I noticed that one can have two windows: the site being debugged, and
>> the control window; making it handy to do exactly what i would like to
>> do.
>> Firebug site is not exactly helpful to say the least; but for free,
>> what can i expect?
>
> I've used Firebug for years now, I can't remember finding it
> particularly difficult to get grips with it.
>
> Browsing through
> https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>
> should give you more than sufficient help.
>
> For a start
>
> - activate the script tab
> - reload page
> - locate the script in question from the dropdown
> - find code you want to debug
> - set breakpoint by clicking on left margin (green line numbers)
> - trigger events to reach break point or - in case of some load listener
> code - reload page
>
>
> The debugger in WebKit flavored browsers works quite similar, as does
> Opera's DragonFly (invoked with Ctrl-Alt-I).
>
> Gregor
>
>
>
   What would be extremely helpful now is something similar that works 
for all versions of (may i swear) IE.
   But it would have to "automatically" go EXACTLY step-by-step to see 
WTF happens; my code is supposed to render on an 800x600 screen and IE8 
(for starters) makes a roughly 1000dpi wide page.
   I would dearly like to know how that garbage can be fixed.

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#15298 — Re: off topic, was: Re: Stupid Question

Le 06/08/12 06:31, Robert Baer a écrit :
>>
>    So, if i interpret your answer correctly, those IF..ENDIF statements
> are NOT javascript.

no, they aren't !

indices :
- no tag "script"
- html conditional comment : "<!--"

>    May i then correctly assume that they are HTML?

just a M$ fantasy using html comment to make dhtml

source :
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512%28VS.85%29.aspx>


-- 
Stéphane Moriaux avec/with iMac-intel

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#15297

Le 05/08/12 06:32, Robert Baer a écrit :
>    Out of context code snippet first:
> ** QUOTE **
> <!--[if lt IE 11]>
>          <img src="images/SLIDER1.JPG" alt="Codatron&trade;">
> <![else]
>          <img src="images/Codatron.png" alt="Codatron&trade;">
> <![endif]-->

>    Q:
>    Why does that added code alter how the browser renders things (by
> hiding the top image and related text)?


How --> see
google : conditional comment
and : <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512%28VS.85%29.aspx>

Why --> maybe because IE of version before the 11th can't read correctly 
the *.png ?

More --> and what about navigators that aren't IE ?

-- 
Stéphane Moriaux avec/with iMac-intel

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