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Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently

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On 11/6/2015 3:02 PM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 11:35:27 AM UTC-5, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>> Based on my recent job hunt, I'd say Java is holding steady as an older 
>> language.  It's not going away but nobody is rushing for the latest 
>> Oracle upgrades either.  It still has a bad reputation for easily 
>> becoming bloated with libraries and add-ons.
>>
>> Python is the hot new language where PHP and Ruby once ruled.  Some 
>> powerful scientific and data analysis packages use it too.  These 
>> languages aren't well suited for large apps so they're not competing 
>> with all types of Java uses.
>>
>> C++11 is what's growing in the large apps category.  Problems of "who 
>> owns this pointer" have been addressed so it's a little less prone to 
>> memory leaks and mysterious runtime crashes.  A few legacy WTFs are 
>> cleaned up too.
> 
> I think Java is only as bloated as you make it and I believe Project Jigsaw slated for Java 9 is supposed to reduce bloat.  I'm not sure what you mean about the Oracle upgrades.  I haven't had any issues with upgrades.  If anything my code seems to run better on the newer Java, though you don't need to rush to the latest if you're not concerned with the changes they've made for security.  Everyone makes security changes, Windows pushes those out every week.
>

True to a certain extent.  However, Java is by its design more bloated
than languages which compile to native code.  OTOH, Java is more
portable across platforms, where that is important.

> All I know about Python is there's a little script required for our Blender software.  What else is it good for?  I thought it did web stuff but I thought everyone was using HTML5/CSS/Javascript/PHP for web now.  It's hard to keep up with web.  I know at least one site still running Java Applets, and at least one site still running ActiveX.
> 
> Does Python run local applications?  Does it do anything Java can't?  Do people still use C++ for local business applications?  I thought most were going to Java, with some still running C#.  I haven't found much Java can't do.  I can name a dozen or two programming languages off the top of my head, it's hard to keep up with what the languages are much less what they're good for.  python.org says Google uses Python, but we use Google Apps with the Google Java API, and we recently started writing Google Script.  How many languages do you suppose they use at Google?
> 
Yes, Python can run local applications.  Whether it can do things Java
can't is really immaterial.  Each language has its advantages and
disadvantages; Python may just be able to do something *more
efficiently* than Java.

> It's always something.  You have to know framework code like Java or C#, and you have to know application code like Microsoft Dynamics or PeopleSoft, and they want to go mobile so you learn Android Java and Objective C.  How many companies still run JCL and COBOL?
> 

COBOL is still the most commonly used language in the world, with an
estimated > 2B LOC created annually.  While it is not used for web
applications, it is used extensively in financial applications such as
government, banking and insurance.

And JCL is the most commonly used language on IBM-compatible mainframes,
used by most large companies in the world.

> To build a successful resume, learn Java, Android Java, JUnit, Objective C, C, C++, C#, BASIC, VB, VB.NET, Python, Jython, VBScript, Javascript, jQuery, PHP, HTML, CSS, JSP, ASP, ASP.NET, XML, XSL, XSLT, SQL, PL/SQL, Unix shell, Powershell, AJAX, JSON, SVG, Ruby, Ruby on Rails, GRails, Groovy, Spring, JCL, COBOL, BASIC, FORTRAN, CICS, DB2, RPG, Perl, SOAP, Tomcat, and more.  This is just most of the languages/framewords/buzzwords I've heard of and know anything about.  Of course you're not likely to know all of these much less be an expert in them, but I've seen many ads looking for programmers who know a specific combination of at least 4 of them, and generally it's a combination no other company is likely using so good luck with that.  The tricky part is not only knowing at least the basics in every language but knowing what the best language is for every application.  I say Java is currently #1 because it is cross platform and I haven't found much if anything it can't do.
> 

Not realistic in the real world.  Better is to become an expert at one
language.  Smart potential employers/clients know one person cannot be
an expert in all of these.

It all depends on what your target audience is.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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Thread

Things have 'moved on' apparently Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-11-06 12:32 +0000
  Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2015-11-06 08:25 -0800
    Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-06 12:02 -0800
      Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-06 19:46 -0500
        Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-07 17:21 +0000
          Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-07 12:50 -0500
        Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 05:37 -0800
          Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 09:00 -0500
          Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-09 14:56 +0000
          Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-09 19:25 +0000
      Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-07 21:57 -0500
    Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-07 22:02 -0500
      Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-11-08 02:00 -0600
        Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-08 08:44 -0500
          Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-11-08 13:08 -0600
        Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2015-11-08 18:54 +0100
          Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-08 21:12 +0000
            Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-08 17:05 -0500
              Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-08 23:24 +0000
                Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-08 19:40 -0500
                Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-08 21:32 -0500
                Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-11-09 15:15 +0000
      Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2015-11-08 12:10 -0800
        Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-08 16:00 -0500
        Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-08 16:51 -0500
  Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2015-11-08 00:55 +0100
  Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-07 21:28 -0500
    Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-07 21:36 -0500
  Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-11-08 02:12 -0600
  Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently askfor <askfor@nowhere.net> - 2015-11-09 18:02 +0100
  Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2015-11-10 22:32 -0800
    Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:52 +0000
      Re: Things have 'moved on' apparently ross.finlayson@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 23:28 -0800

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