Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #26939

Re: Teaching Java, teaching what?

Show all headers | View raw

On 12/15/2013 03:58 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 12/14/2013 07:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/10/2013 11:47 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2013 11:07 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>    Moreover, today, applications often read user input via a GUI
>>>>    but only very rarely from a console. (I do not deem command-line
>>>>    arguments to be reading from a console here).
>>>
>>> I agree that console input for general app users is now uncommon. I also
>>> agree that CLI args (CLI invocation for that matter) is not reading from
>>> a console.
>>>
>>> I'd say this though, are you trying to teach users of applications, or
>>> writers of applications? If someone who intends to be a software
>>> developer can't get console input, they are toast. For that matter, I've
>>> worked with corporate and government _user_ teams in just the last few
>>> years that were still quite comfortable with green-screen type console
>>> input apps, and with quite a few user teams that loathed - and were
>>> adversely impacted by - badly designed GUIs (whether smartphone, desktop
>>> or web app).
>>
>> Basic OS understanding, being able to navigate command line / shell,
>> install and troubleshoot server applications are necessary to become
>> good developers.
>>
>> But that is not the same as making it part of or a prerequisite for
>> a basic programming course.
>>
>> Basic course should focus on a specific topic and then later the
>> students can try and make a whole out of all the small fragments.
>>
>> Arne
>
> Basic OS understanding had best be part of a first programming course,
> IMO. As for command line/shell, I wouldn't belabour it - not much point
> in turning your novices into Powershell or bash experts in the first
> semester - but if it's simply pitched as a method of I/O, I can't see
> how it interferes more than teaching a GUI.
>
> AHS

I keep reading this thread and wondering where Stefan Ram and his
students fit into <http://www.acm.org/education/curricula-recommendations>.

Adult students. Perhaps they all have the core of _CSTA K-12 2011_
and are heading toward one of the "five defined sub-disciplines of 
computing" in _Computing Curricula 2005: The Overview Report_.

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-09 13:20 +0100
  Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-09 16:17 +0100
    Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-09 20:02 -0500
      Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-10 11:56 +0100
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-10 12:07 +0000
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-10 13:39 +0100
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-10 12:56 +0000
              Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-10 14:38 +0100
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 20:05 -0500
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 19:58 -0500
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-12-15 03:49 +0100
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-15 11:29 +0100
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-15 10:55 +0000
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-15 16:54 -0400
  Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-09 12:02 -0400
    Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-12-09 21:49 +0000
    Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-09 20:11 -0500
      Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-12-09 17:58 -0800
      Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-10 10:22 -0400
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-10 11:02 -0500
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-10 12:47 -0400
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 18:04 -0500
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-15 16:58 -0400
              Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-15 16:36 -0500
                Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-15 18:17 -0500
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 17:59 -0500
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2013-12-15 04:20 -0600
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-15 12:23 +0100
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-15 10:00 -0500
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-16 10:28 -0400
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-15 21:32 -0400

csiph-web