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Re: Teaching Java, teaching what?

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On 12/10/2013 11:07 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> writes:
>>                              I think most students would get that I/O
>> to/from a console, or to/from a file, is just as much first class as I/O
>> through a GUI.
>
>    I am teaching using a Windows console in Germany.
>
> java.lang.System.out.println( "müßig" )
>
>    will print something like
>
> mn¯ig
>
>    with the default settings in place, while
>
> new javax.swing.JTextField( "müßig" )
>
>    will show the correct word.
>
>    Moreover, today, applications often read user input via a GUI
>    but only very rarely from a console. (I do not deem command-line
>    arguments to be reading from a console here).

I agree that console input for general app users is now uncommon. I also 
agree that CLI args (CLI invocation for that matter) is not reading from 
a console.

I'd say this though, are you trying to teach users of applications, or 
writers of applications? If someone who intends to be a software 
developer can't get console input, they are toast. For that matter, I've 
worked with corporate and government _user_ teams in just the last few 
years that were still quite comfortable with green-screen type console 
input apps, and with quite a few user teams that loathed - and were 
adversely impacted by - badly designed GUIs (whether smartphone, desktop 
or web app).

So I wouldn't focus too much on the methodology of input.

>    After many modifications to my syllabus, I now /can/ arrive
>    at the first Swing programs within 30 hours. I posted the OP
>    here just to get to know whether this still makes sense.
>
Let me ask this, Stefan. You "arrive" at the first Swing programs within 
30 hours. Leaving aside the 5-10 percent of natural programmers, and the 
bottom 25 percent that maybe shouldn't have been there, are you content 
that the middle group is benefiting from a cursory exposure to Swing?

AHS

-- 
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign:
that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-09 13:20 +0100
  Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-09 16:17 +0100
    Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-09 20:02 -0500
      Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-10 11:56 +0100
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-10 12:07 +0000
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-10 13:39 +0100
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-10 12:56 +0000
              Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-10 14:38 +0100
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 20:05 -0500
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 19:58 -0500
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-12-15 03:49 +0100
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-15 11:29 +0100
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-15 10:55 +0000
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-15 16:54 -0400
  Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-09 12:02 -0400
    Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-12-09 21:49 +0000
    Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-09 20:11 -0500
      Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-12-09 17:58 -0800
      Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-10 10:22 -0400
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-10 11:02 -0500
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-10 12:47 -0400
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 18:04 -0500
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-15 16:58 -0400
              Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-15 16:36 -0500
                Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-15 18:17 -0500
        Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-14 17:59 -0500
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2013-12-15 04:20 -0600
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-15 12:23 +0100
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-15 10:00 -0500
            Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-16 10:28 -0400
          Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-15 21:32 -0400

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