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Re: New to the group

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From "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: New to the group
Date Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:30:26 -0400
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On Thu, 01 Oct 2015 08:31:21 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/1/2015 2:47 AM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:34:27 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:

>>> Generally, one shouldn't get fussed when reading that a certain
>>> condition is "ambiguous." Just take the message as, "don't do that" and
>>> (if you care) look at the documentation for the system in question to
>>> see what it does.
>>
>> So, this explains why ticking IF causes gForth to abort --- I should
>> have known: "don't do that!"
>>
>> Perhaps you are explaining why IF does have an xt in VFX, but the xt
>> will abort when executed (no matter what STATE is at the time) --- it
>> is a non-executable execution-token.
>>
>> Maybe you are explaining why FIND in gForth returns different xt
>> values for IF depending upon what STATE is at the time that FIND executes.
>>
>> All of this is allowed by the ANS-Forth document --- the bad thing about
>> ambiguity is that anything can happen, but whatever happens is legal ANS-Forth.
>
> I'm sure I'm not the only one who is tired of Hugh's rantings on this
> issue.  IF does not have defined execution semantics.  So why would
> anyone expect IF to have an XT and if a value were returned by tick, why
> would they expect it to do anything useful when executed?
>

I only like Hugh's rants when I can make fun of him ...
Of course, I also bring up important points which he ignores also.

But, all of that still doesn't mean his point was unimportant.

ISTM that older Forth standards would return the XT or equivalent
(PFA) for ' (tick) if the word was found in the dictionary and/or
vocabulary regardless of any execution semantics or immediacy etc.
Therefore, *NOT* returning an XT for a word that's in the dictionary
because it doesn't have any execution or interpration semantics would
seem to be a departure from the prior Forth standards and/or historical
Forth behavior.  As Hugh noted, code which expects historical behaviors
may break with ANS since ANS apparently made little to no effort to
preserve such behaviors.  I.e., his apparent claim that ANS code is
non-portable would seem to be valid in the sense that the code would
break on pre-ANS Forths.  Although, I don't think he mentioned pre-ANS
Forths anywhere in his claims.


Rod Pemberton


-- 
Just how many texting and calendar apps does humanity need?
Just how many food articles from neurotic millenials do we need?

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New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 15:17 -0700
  Re: New to the group mentificium@gmail.com - 2015-09-26 17:35 -0700
  Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-26 21:16 -0700
    Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 07:27 -0700
      Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 14:43 -0400
        Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 13:05 -0700
        Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-27 12:57 -1000
        Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-27 17:00 -0700
          Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 17:16 -0700
            Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 20:31 -0400
            Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-27 18:57 -0700
              Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 19:37 -0700
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 20:53 -0700
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-27 19:02 -1000
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 23:33 -0700
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 04:51 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 12:39 -0400
                Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 14:29 +0200
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 07:18 -0700
                Re: New to the group foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2015-09-28 08:07 -0700
                Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 17:23 +0200
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 11:16 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 14:25 -0400
                Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-29 09:05 +0000
                Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 20:31 +0200
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 13:20 -0700
                Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 22:52 +0200
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 16:40 -0700
                Re: New to the group Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 08:41 -0700
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-28 11:41 -1000
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-28 21:33 -0700
                Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-28 19:13 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 00:51 -0400
                Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-29 18:26 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 21:55 -0400
                Re: New to the group Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-09-30 08:29 +0100
                Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-29 18:52 -0700
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 00:29 -0700
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 04:40 -0700
                Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 05:24 -0700
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 07:33 -0700
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 14:11 -0700
                Re: New to the group "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-29 16:46 +0000
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 14:15 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:34 -0400
                Re: New to the group "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-30 00:07 +0000
    Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 10:54 -0700
  Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-26 22:37 -0700
    Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 10:51 -0700
  Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:15 -0700
    Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 21:58 -0400
      Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 22:03 -0700
        Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-29 21:32 -1000
          Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-09-30 09:06 +0100
            Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 08:58 -1000
              Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-30 23:55 -0700
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 21:28 -1000
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 08:25 -0400
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-01 09:33 -0700
            Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 16:21 -0700
              Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 21:03 -0400
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 19:34 -1000
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 23:47 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 08:31 -0400
                Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 00:30 -0400
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-01 19:22 -1000
                Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-01 23:52 -0700
                Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 01:52 -0700
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 08:36 -1000
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 17:00 -0400
                Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 14:46 -0700
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 18:10 -0400
                Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-02 16:08 -0700
                Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 20:44 -0400
                Re: New to the group David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-10-31 06:54 -0400
                Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <too@zxcvfeqad.cdm> - 2015-11-02 02:34 -0500
                Re: New to the group David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-12-22 06:45 -0500
                Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <too@zxcvfeqad.cdm> - 2015-11-02 02:34 -0500
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 15:16 -1000
                Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-02 18:21 -0700
                Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 15:38 -1000
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:13 -0400
                Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-03 22:24 +0100
                Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 17:33 -0400
          Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 17:00 -0700
            Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 20:38 -0400
            Re: New to the group Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-02 14:37 -0400
              Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 17:01 -0400
              Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-02 23:35 -0700
        Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 18:11 -0400
          Re: New to the group Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-01 02:13 +0200
    Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-09-30 08:38 +0100
      Re: New to the group Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-30 10:58 -0400
  Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 06:04 -0700
    Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 09:46 -0400
    Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:07 +0000
      Re: New to the group Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 04:04 -0700
        Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 10:29 -0400
        Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-09 15:30 +0000
  Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 00:19 -0700
    Re: New to the group visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-10-03 17:01 -0700
    Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:38 +0000
      Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-07 21:15 -1000
        Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 13:39 +0000
          Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-08 08:13 -0700
            Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 00:55 -0700
              Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 10:43 +0200
                Re: Minimal wordset Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 06:56 -0700
                Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 19:44 +0200
                Re: Minimal wordset Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-09 14:02 -0700
                Re: Minimal wordset Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-10-10 09:44 +0100
                Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-10 11:36 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 08:40 -0700
                Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 19:53 +0200
                Re: Minimal wordset lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 11:22 -0700
                Re: Minimal wordset JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-09 11:33 -0700
                Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 20:38 +0200
                Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-09 20:56 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 20:10 -0500
                Re: Minimal wordset Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-11-02 03:05 +0100
                Re: Minimal wordset "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-01 16:08 -1000
                Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-02 09:35 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 12:42 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 23:22 -0800
                Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 11:25 -0500
                Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-03 19:36 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-11-08 12:56 +1100
                Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-08 16:14 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-11-09 11:55 +1100
                Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 09:41 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 11:29 -0500
                Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 17:01 +0000
                Re: Minimal wordset JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-09 11:27 -0700
            Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-09 23:11 -0400
              Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-10-10 08:38 +0100
      Re: New to the group dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-10-14 23:14 +0000
        Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-14 16:21 -1000
        Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-15 08:46 +0000
  Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 09:23 -0700
    Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-03 09:19 -1000
  Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-08 05:24 -0700
    Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-08 08:22 -1000
      Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 08:37 -0700
  Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 10:44 -0700

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