Re: Text Files

From	GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Text Files
Date	2018-02-16 17:06 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20180216170630.ea69ac811c84f94b952cf2bc@gmail.com> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <p64qnr$b5q$1@dont-email.me> <zRmhC.24616$Dt.19656@fx18.am4> <p6673c$7j6$1@dont-email.me> <nyAhC.85999$Ii5.20344@fx19.am4> <p66r3l$dt4$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 15:50:29 +0100
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> Real programming languages are made by groups - or at least one or two
> language designers that talk to others.  When you sit by yourself and
> make your own language, you can be sure it is a language primarily for
> /you/.

No, real programming languages are implemented in conformance to the
specification. A programming language doesn't need to be popular to be
real, but only used to build a solution.

> No, they usually start out as individual efforts or a collaboration of
> two or three people.  But they need a group effort and group input
> before they have a chance of becoming popular - that needs to happen
> before the details start getting too fixed.  I favour programming
> languages that are designed to fit the needs of many people, not just
> one or his idea of what other people should be wanting.  That does not
> mean designed by committee, or maintained by committee, but it means a
> collaborative effort.

No, the programming language only needs to provide a convenient solution
for some users. A collaborative effort is only needed to split the
effort to reach the goal rapidly. If the goal is to merge several
dialects into one (i.e. building a unique standard), then the working
group needs a diversified expertize to find a consensus but it doesn't
mean the working group can't be a unique person.

> I have experience of using a language designed and implemented by one
> person.  When that one person's goals diverged from other users, the
> language collapsed into oblivion.

No, diverging goals won't break the accomplished work.

> And if your customers are left with code that is unmaintainable
> because you have retired and there is no one else who can update or
> fix the code (never mind the tools behind it), then they have bought
> a cat in a bag. Maybe it was good enough at the time - far from all
> software projects are expected to last forever, or be maintained.
> But the reality is that any use of a single-person or single-company
> language has a far shorter shelf life than standard languages.  It
> might still be the right business decision, especially many years ago
> when the alternative choices might not have been as good, and code
> with source in a weird language is more maintainable than a
> binary-only solution.

Privative languages can provide a competitive advantage against
standard solutions. Guess why people do programs in C# for Windows? It
locks your users in your programming environment. AFAIK C# is still
alive...

> I am sure they have done real work.  That does not stop them being
> languages specifically designed to suit /you/, the way /you/ think,
> and the problems /you/ are trying to solve.  There is no
> contradiction there.

If his way met some user's need then it is his user's way too. You
shouldn't be so jealous of his success...

-- 
GOTHIER Nathan

Thread

Text Files G B <gb@gb.com> - 2018-02-14 11:47 -0400
  Re: Text Files Ed Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-02-14 08:45 -0800
  Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-14 08:47 -0800
    Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-15 01:17 -0800
  Re: Text Files gordonb.ea2mq@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2018-02-14 11:10 -0600
  Re: Text Files "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2018-02-14 12:28 -0500
  Re: Text Files jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2018-02-14 21:07 +0000
  Re: Text Files Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-14 15:31 -0700
    Re: Text Files Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-15 06:59 +0000
      Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 10:20 +0000
  Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-14 22:51 +0000
    Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-15 11:04 +0100
      Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 06:16 -0800
        Re: Text Files "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 22:22 +0800
        Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-15 15:58 +0100
          Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 16:31 +0000
            Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-15 21:31 +0100
              Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 21:21 +0000
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 22:17 +0000
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 23:36 +0000
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 23:48 +0000
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 10:09 +0100
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 12:57 +0000
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 15:50 +0100
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 15:50 +0000
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 17:07 +0100
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 20:44 +0000
                Re: Text Files Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-17 11:22 +1300
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 17:48 +0000
                Re: Text Files GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 17:06 +0100
                Re: Text Files Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-17 11:10 +1300
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-16 14:48 -0800
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-16 15:14 -0800
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 23:25 +0000
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-16 15:50 -0800
          Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-16 07:19 -0800
            Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 17:13 +0100
              Re: Text Files Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-19 17:55 +0000
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-19 19:14 +0100
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-19 11:48 -0800
            Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 08:14 -0800
              Re: Text Files Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-17 18:32 -0600
    Re: Text Files jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2018-02-15 22:57 +0100
      Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 22:58 +0000
        Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 00:19 +0000
          Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 02:26 +0000
            Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 02:57 +0000
              Re: Text Files asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2018-02-16 00:21 -0800
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 11:30 +0000
          Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 10:36 +0100
            Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 11:36 +0000
              Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 13:10 +0100
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 12:25 +0000
                Re: Text Files Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2018-03-06 19:33 +0000
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-06 20:55 +0000
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 04:42 -0800
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 16:58 +0100
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 20:02 +0000
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 21:43 +0100
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-17 04:01 -0800
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-17 13:10 +0000
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-17 05:27 -0800
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-17 14:20 +0000
                Re: Text Files Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-16 09:04 -0700
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 14:31 +0000
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 06:42 -0800
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-16 14:58 +0000
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 07:23 -0800
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-16 15:24 +0000
              Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 04:13 -0800
                Re: Text Files Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-16 04:29 -0800
                Re: Text Files Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-20 16:41 +0000
                Re: Text Files Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-20 09:39 -0800
                Re: Text Files Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-20 19:16 +0000
  Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 12:46 +0000
    Re: Text Files GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 14:52 +0100
    Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-02-15 17:07 +0300
      Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 14:23 +0000
        Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-02-15 18:52 +0300
    Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 14:39 +0000
      Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 15:43 +0000
        Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 20:32 +0000
          Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 22:06 +0000
            Re: Text Files GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 23:12 +0100
            Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-15 15:12 -0800
              Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 23:43 +0000
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 23:54 +0000
            Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 23:35 +0000
          Re: Text Files Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-02-16 17:07 -0800
            Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-17 02:38 +0000
              Re: Text Files Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-17 17:26 +1300
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-17 11:22 +0000
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-17 12:07 +0000
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-17 04:17 -0800
                Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-02-17 16:25 +0300
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-17 07:35 -0800
                Re: Text Files GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-17 15:24 +0100
                Re: Text Files Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-18 11:10 +1300
              Re: Text Files Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-02-19 12:05 -0800
                Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-19 15:32 -0800
                Re: Text Files Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-02-21 10:34 -0800
                Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-21 15:35 -0800
                Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-22 00:11 +0000
                Re: Text Files Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-21 18:26 -0600
                Re: Text Files Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-02-21 21:39 -0800
                Re: Text Files Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-23 03:08 -0600
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-23 16:16 -0800
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-23 16:46 -0800
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-24 02:49 -0800
                Re: Text Files asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2018-02-24 05:16 -0800
                Re: Text Files "F. Russell" <fr@random.info> - 2018-02-24 14:35 +0000
                Re: Text Files Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-24 08:48 -0700
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-25 15:09 -0800
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-25 15:54 -0800
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-26 11:04 -0800
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-26 11:52 -0800
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-26 14:12 -0800
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-26 14:40 -0800
                Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-22 04:58 -0800
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 05:33 -0800
                Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-22 13:59 +0000
                Re: Text Files Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 07:24 -0800
              Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-20 12:14 -0800
        Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-15 21:37 +0100
          Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 21:34 +0000
            Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-15 14:15 -0800
            Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-16 10:47 +0100
  Re: Text Files "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-02-15 22:20 +0800
  Re: Text Files "F. Russell" <fr@random.info> - 2018-02-15 15:24 +0000
    Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-15 16:05 +0000
    Re: Text Files "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-02-16 00:22 +0800
    Re: Text Files Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-15 13:35 -0700
  Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-02-25 00:13 +0300
    Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-24 21:24 +0000
      Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-02-25 14:55 +0300
        Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-25 13:00 +0000
    Re: Text Files Real Troll <Real.Troll@Trolls.com> - 2018-02-24 17:35 -0400
    Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-24 21:36 +0000
      Re: Text Files Real Troll <Real.Troll@Trolls.com> - 2018-02-24 17:45 -0400
      Re: Text Files Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-24 22:51 +0000
        Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-24 23:56 +0000
          Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-25 00:14 +0000
            Re: Text Files bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-25 00:22 +0000
            Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-02-25 15:16 +0300
              Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-25 15:20 -0800
                Re: Text Files Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-25 20:27 -0700
                Re: Text Files gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-02-26 06:19 +0000
                Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-02-26 15:35 +0300
                Re: Text Files Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2018-02-26 20:53 +0800
                Grammar Patrol (Was: Text Files) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-02-26 17:54 +0000
                Re: Text Files Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-26 15:27 +0000
                Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-02-26 18:50 +0300
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-26 09:26 -0800
                Re: Text Files scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-02-26 19:46 +0000
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-27 09:04 +0100
                Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-27 00:56 -0800
                Re: Text Files Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-27 22:07 +1300
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-27 14:37 +0100
                Re: Text Files already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-27 07:38 -0800
                Re: Text Files supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-27 09:18 -0800
                Re: Text Files David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-27 10:15 +0100
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-27 08:53 -0800
                Re: Text Files Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-02-26 23:14 -0800
                Re: Text Files Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-26 08:32 -0700
                Re: Text Files Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-26 09:17 -0800
                Re: Text Files Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-02-26 22:55 -0800
      Re: Text Files Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-02-25 15:02 +0300
        Re: Text Files Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-25 20:12 +0000

csiph-web