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Re: The real cost of net zero

From "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups aus.cars, aus.computers, aus.legal
Subject Re: The real cost of net zero
Date 2024-12-25 09:37 +1100
Message-ID <op.2za2gmcbbyq249@pvr2.lan> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <lss1tmFcgjlU1@mid.individual.net> <lss6gtFd56jU1@mid.individual.net> <lsusukFqhl9U3@mid.individual.net> <lsv6rnFrrvnU5@mid.individual.net> <676b30db@news.ausics.net>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote

>> BTW, if you want to understand the war in Ukraine, I recommend this  
>> book.

>> https://www.amazon.com.au/Accidental-Superpower-Generation-American-Preeminence/dp/1455583685/

> Reading reviews:
> https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/peter-zeihan/the-accidental-superpower/
> https://thegeopolity.com/2024/05/08/book-review-the-accidental-superpower-10-years-on/

> It sounds like he chooses a perspective that caters most
> specifically to the ego of an American audience.

> If the USA is so
> wonderful then why do Aussies average living five years longer than
> people there?

Because we have a vastly better heath care funding system
here and nothing like the same level of the morbidly obese
or the absolute dregs of drug abusing street parasites.

> https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy

> It might be an interesting read but it doesn't sound that reliable.
> But I do wonder now how he reckons Germany, Japan, and Turkey will
> become aggressive, as well as Russia. I've got too many books to
> work through already though.

> He obviously doesn't think net zero emissions are close since he
> has America's superpower status tied to its rising domestic oil
> supply.

>> It's a hard read, a veritable slog, geopolitics is like that, but it
>> provides the only reasonable explanation for the Ukraine Conflict and
>> more. In fact the author predicted in 2014 that Russia would invade
>> Ukraine by 2022 at the very latest. History proved him correct and he
>> has produced a followup book as a recap of past events discussed in the
>> first book.

> Although it certainly hasn't demonstrated the USA turning back to
> pre-WWII isolationism, which was apparantly one of his other (many)
> predictions. They're pouring record amounts into propping up that
> nutcase in Ukraine,

It remains to be seen what Trump will do and
what effect that will have on that particular war.

> Israel at the same time, and still had energy
> to do some late meddling in Syria. Compared with the Saudi oil
> crisis in the 70s, increased American energy independence seems to
> have made the USA more capable of meddling in distant foreign
> countries than before, and clearly no less willing so far.

But Trump is claiming that he will stop doing that now

But yes, he did get involved with russia with wiping out IS in Syria

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Thread

The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-21 11:50 +1100
  Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 14:15 +1100
    Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 17:43 +1100
    Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-21 17:59 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 18:48 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 19:33 +1100
        Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 20:46 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 08:09 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 09:41 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 00:08 +0000
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 11:39 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 12:09 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 12:45 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 16:13 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 16:22 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 17:15 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 16:42 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:34 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:02 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 12:35 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:29 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:41 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 15:27 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-22 18:31 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 18:33 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:43 +1100
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:38 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:13 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:40 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 14:08 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:25 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 14:08 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:26 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:40 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 16:30 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 17:14 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 19:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 20:25 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-23 21:00 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 05:35 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 22:58 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 23:13 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:31 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:28 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:23 +1000
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:22 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 11:21 +1000
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 13:57 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:16 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 18:07 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:41 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 19:48 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:07 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:00 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:38 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 21:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 04:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 19:40 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:17 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 05:47 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 13:18 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 14:35 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 16:06 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 15:14 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 19:48 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 07:07 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:40 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 19:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 19:42 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:29 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 20:57 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:38 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-25 08:08 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 09:37 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 12:41 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 13:34 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-23 21:27 +1100
  Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:16 +1000
    Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:17 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 11:32 +1000
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 13:59 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:17 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:46 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:29 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 18:23 +1000
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:48 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 15:40 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 20:00 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 19:11 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:16 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 21:07 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:40 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:16 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 22:02 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 04:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 19:55 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:19 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 21:11 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 04:39 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-27 19:36 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 20:07 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 05:51 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 11:42 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 13:22 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 13:39 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:34 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:46 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 21:55 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 23:09 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Lindsay <lindsay00@nunnya.biz> - 2024-12-24 23:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:20 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 18:50 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-26 16:29 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 18:25 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 18:00 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 19:08 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 21:05 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:26 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 23:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-26 19:44 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 21:08 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:40 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 22:08 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 23:26 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 23:46 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-27 19:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 18:33 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:20 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:43 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:03 +1100
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 14:00 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 14:58 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:26 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:44 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 16:32 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 17:19 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 12:29 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 13:10 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 15:32 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:42 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:37 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 21:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 21:34 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:21 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:43 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 00:09 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:27 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 09:15 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:18 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 22:25 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 04:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 20:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 04:44 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:35 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:26 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 20:05 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 18:37 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 20:06 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:41 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 09:27 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 06:03 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 13:25 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 14:16 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 15:18 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 16:31 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 17:40 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 18:58 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 18:32 +1000
              Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-23 21:34 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:34 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:26 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:20 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:35 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:41 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:28 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:02 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:17 +1100

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