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Groups > aus.computers > #71519

Re: The real cost of net zero

From Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>
Newsgroups aus.cars, aus.computers, aus.legal
Subject Re: The real cost of net zero
Date 2024-12-22 08:09 +1100
Message-ID <lsop3uFquvuU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <lsmhm0Fg400U1@mid.individual.net> <lsmq74Fh6lnU3@mid.individual.net> <lsn7acFjbi2U1@mid.individual.net> <lsncpsFk4feU1@mid.individual.net> <lsnh3gFkp3uU1@mid.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 21/12/2024 8:46 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 21/12/2024 7:33 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 21/12/2024 5:59 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 21/12/2024 11:50 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Get the facts. radio interview I recorded with Chris Uhlmann, award 
>>>>> winning journalist and Sky News Political Contributor
>>>>>
>>>>> https://auslink.info/audio/netzero.mp4  (20Kb)
>>>>>
>>>>> or watch the documentary ..
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbxpieEQ7bc
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Sky News? Are you fucking serious, you fucking moron?
>>>
>>> in ancient times it was customary to kill a messenger who brought a 
>>> King news he didn't want to hear. I see you're following that example.
>>
>> **Nope. I am merely pointing out that Sky is a mouthpiece for 
>> denialists. NOTHING Sky reports can be trusted. Ever. Sky is not a 
>> scientific source of note.
>>
>>   deal
>>> with the facts. it's not about not reducing carbon emissions, but how 
>>> it's done, and setting realistic targets.
>>
>> **The target is zero net emissions. Simple. It must be done as rapidly 
>> as possible and then we must aim to reverse net emissions. IOW: We 
>> must begin to remove CO2 from the atmosphere to bring it back to 
>> approximately 300ppm. Failure means that the human race will incur 
>> costs that are so high that we cannot ever pay for the costs. As has 
>> been said for at least 25 years: Acting sooner is cheaper than acting 
>> later. 
> 
> Try 40 years.

**Thanks for the correction.

> 
> http://nap.nationalacademies.org/18714
> 
> At first the above report was scoffed at. Then it began to look real. 
> Now it looks like they might have been a tad optimistic, maybe they 
> didn't account for accelerative effects - like permafrost thawing.

**Indeed. Methane is a big problem.



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Thread

The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-21 11:50 +1100
  Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 14:15 +1100
    Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-21 17:43 +1100
    Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-21 17:59 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 18:48 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-21 19:33 +1100
        Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-21 20:46 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 08:09 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 09:41 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 00:08 +0000
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 11:39 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 12:09 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 12:45 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 16:13 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 16:22 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-22 17:15 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 16:42 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:34 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:02 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 12:35 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:29 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 13:41 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-22 15:27 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-22 18:31 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-22 18:33 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:43 +1100
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:38 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:13 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:40 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 14:08 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:25 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-23 14:08 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:26 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:40 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 16:30 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 17:14 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 19:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 20:25 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-23 21:00 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 05:35 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 22:58 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 23:13 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:31 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:28 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:23 +1000
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:22 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 11:21 +1000
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 13:57 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:16 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 18:07 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:41 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 19:48 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:07 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:00 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:38 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 21:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 04:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 19:40 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:17 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 05:47 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 13:18 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 14:35 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 16:06 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 15:14 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 19:48 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 07:07 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:40 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 19:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 19:42 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:29 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 20:57 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:38 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-25 08:08 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 09:37 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 12:41 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 13:34 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-23 21:27 +1100
  Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:16 +1000
    Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 11:17 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 11:32 +1000
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 13:59 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:17 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:46 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:29 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 18:23 +1000
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:48 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 15:40 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 20:00 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 19:11 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:16 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 21:07 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:40 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:16 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 22:02 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 04:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 19:55 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:19 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 21:11 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 04:39 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-27 19:36 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 20:07 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 05:51 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 11:42 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 13:22 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 13:39 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:34 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:46 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-24 21:55 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 23:09 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Lindsay <lindsay00@nunnya.biz> - 2024-12-24 23:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:20 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:51 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 18:50 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2024-12-26 16:29 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 18:25 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 18:00 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 19:08 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 21:05 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:26 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 23:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Noddy <me@home.com> - 2024-12-26 19:44 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 21:08 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 20:40 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 22:08 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 23:26 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 23:46 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-27 19:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 18:33 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:20 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:43 +1100
      Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 13:03 +1100
        Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-23 14:00 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 14:58 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:26 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:44 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 16:32 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 17:19 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-24 12:29 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 13:10 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 15:32 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:42 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:37 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 21:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-24 21:34 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:21 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 21:43 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 00:09 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:27 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2024-12-25 08:24 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 09:15 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-25 10:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:18 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-25 22:25 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 04:53 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-26 20:52 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 04:44 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:35 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:26 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 20:05 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 18:37 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 20:06 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 07:41 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 09:27 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Hans.Andnees@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 06:03 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 13:25 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 14:16 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 15:18 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-26 16:31 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 17:40 +1000
                Re: The real cost of net zero MightyMouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-26 18:58 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero alvey <Factman@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 18:32 +1000
              Re: The real cost of net zero Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-12-23 21:34 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:34 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:26 +1100
          Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:20 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-23 15:35 +1100
            Re: The real cost of net zero Mighty Mouse <"squeak!"@thecheesefactory.com> - 2024-12-24 15:41 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 18:28 +1100
              Re: The real cost of net zero Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:02 +1100
                Re: The real cost of net zero Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2024-12-24 20:17 +1100

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