Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #151246 > unrolled thread

New hard drive

Started byphilo <philo@privacy.net>
First post2015-09-10 20:33 -0500
Last post2015-09-14 14:45 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 69 — 22 participants

Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers


Contents

  New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-10 20:33 -0500
    Re: New hard drive Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-09-10 23:23 -0400
      Re: New hard drive Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-09-11 07:07 +0100
      Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 10:20 -0500
        Re: New hard drive Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-09-14 13:53 -0400
          Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 13:05 -0500
            Re: New hard drive Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-09-14 15:09 -0400
              Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 14:18 -0500
        Re: New hard drive Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-09-15 10:08 +0100
          Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-15 05:28 -0500
            Re: New hard drive Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2015-09-15 13:43 +0200
              Re: New hard drive Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-15 16:19 +0000
                Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-15 13:15 -0500
                  Re: New hard drive Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-09-16 07:04 +0000
                    Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-16 08:39 -0500
                      Re: New hard drive Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-16 14:52 +0000
                        Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-17 15:37 -0500
                    Re: New hard drive scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-09-16 13:42 +0000
                Re: New hard drive Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-15 15:34 -0400
                  Re: New hard drive Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-09-15 17:29 -0400
                  Re: New hard drive Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-16 22:00 +0000
                    Re: New hard drive Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-09-17 03:58 +0000
                      Re: New hard drive "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-17 00:43 -0500
                        Re: New hard drive Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-09-17 05:59 +0000
                        Re: New hard drive Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-17 11:51 +0000
                          Re: New hard drive hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-09-17 13:18 -0700
                            Re: New hard drive Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-17 19:15 -0400
                            Re: New hard drive "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-20 17:27 +1000
                        Re: New hard drive hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-09-17 13:13 -0700
                    Re: New hard drive Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-17 06:24 -0400
                      Re: New hard drive Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-17 11:51 +0000
                      Re: New hard drive Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-09-17 18:02 +0000
              Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-15 13:12 -0500
                Re: New hard drive Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-16 22:00 +0000
                  Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-17 19:29 -0500
                Re: New hard drive "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2015-09-17 10:29 +0100
                  Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-17 19:31 -0500
          Re: New hard drive Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-15 16:19 +0000
            Re: New hard drive Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-09-15 17:48 +0000
            Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-15 13:17 -0500
    Re: New hard drive "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-09-11 09:28 -0500
      Re: New hard drive scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-09-11 14:59 +0000
        Re: New hard drive Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-09-11 11:32 -0400
          Re: New hard drive Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-09-11 16:06 +0000
          Re: New hard drive scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-09-11 16:06 +0000
            Re: New hard drive "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-12 05:21 +1000
          Re: New hard drive "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-12 05:16 +1000
        Re: New hard drive "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-09-11 10:42 -0500
          Re: New hard drive scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-09-11 16:09 +0000
            Re: New hard drive Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-09-11 12:20 -0400
          Re: New hard drive "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-12 05:18 +1000
        Re: New hard drive "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-12 05:08 +1000
      Re: New hard drive "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:34 -0500
        Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-15 05:29 -0500
      Re: New hard drive terry+googleblog@tmk.com - 2015-09-11 16:05 -0700
    Re: New hard drive Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-11 11:55 -0400
      Re: New hard drive Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2015-09-11 14:42 -0300
        Re: New hard drive Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-09-11 16:10 -0400
          Re: New hard drive Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-09-11 15:07 -0700
            Re: New hard drive sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2015-09-12 15:34 -0400
              Re: New hard drive Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-09-12 12:56 -0700
                Re: New hard drive Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-09-12 13:02 -0700
      Re: New hard drive "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:39 -0500
        Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 10:25 -0500
      Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 10:22 -0500
        Re: New hard drive Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-09-14 13:49 -0400
          Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 13:07 -0500
    Re: New hard drive hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-09-14 11:10 -0700
      Re: New hard drive philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-09-14 14:45 -0500

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →


#151253

From"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net>
Date2015-09-11 09:28 -0500
Message-ID<d5g6nnFf5u4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151246
"philo" wrote:

> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>
>
> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850 meg 
> drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did it and 
> when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I felt like I 
> was in a huge empty canyon.

Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a 
current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is applied 
to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151255

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2015-09-11 14:59 +0000
Message-ID<1%BIx.48652$lq4.42332@fx10.iad>
In reply to#151253
"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>"philo" wrote:
>
>> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
>> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>>
>>
>> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850 meg 
>> drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did it and 
>> when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I felt like I 
>> was in a huge empty canyon.
>
>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a 
>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is applied 
>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts. 
>

# smartctl --all /dev/sdc
smartctl 6.2 2014-07-16 r3952 [x86_64-linux-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Seagate Desktop HDD.15
Device Model:     ST4000DM000-1F2168
Serial Number:    S300HH9N
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 06dd7aa97
Firmware Version: CC54
User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    5900 rpm
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Fri Sep 11 07:56:38 2015 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever 
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection:                (  107) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 507) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x1085) SCT Status supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       19125192
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       24
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       1897873
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   090   090   000    Old_age   Always       -       9478
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       24
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0 0 0
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   056   045    Old_age   Always       -       31 (Min/Max 22/44)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   077   077   000    Old_age   Always       -       47740
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   044   000    Old_age   Always       -       31 (0 19 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       5250h+48m+45.560s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       2814136976
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       3700421168

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]


SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151256

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-09-11 11:32 -0400
Message-ID<msus31$v06$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#151255
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a 
>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is applied 
>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts. 
>
> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       19125192
>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       1897873
...
> SMART Error Log Version: 1
> No Errors Logged

These numbers have never been clear to me.
How can the worst be 99, but the value 108?

I would have thought 108 is cumulative since the last clear, but
there's no evidence of any time period that I can see.
Also, the "raw" value is in the millions.

I have 2 1TB hard drives and 1 128G SDD.

The SSD shows some pretty good numbers:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       48
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       32
160 Uncorrectable_Error_Cnt 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
161 Valid_Spare_Block_Cnt   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       45
163 Initial_Bad_Block_Count 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       24
164 Total_Erase_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       1425
165 Max_Erase_Count         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       6
166 Min_Erase_Count         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
167 Average_Erase_Count     0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       1
168 Max_Erase_Count_of_Spec 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       3000
169 Remaining_Lifetime_Perc 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       100
175 Program_Fail_Count_Chip 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
176 Erase_Fail_Count_Chip   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
177 Wear_Leveling_Count     0x0000   100   100   050    Old_age   Offline      -       0
178 Runtime_Invalid_Blk_Cnt 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       15
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       23
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0000   100   100   016    Old_age   Offline      -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0000   100   100   050    Old_age   Offline      -       639
232 Available_Reservd_Space 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       100
241 Host_Writes_32MiB       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       3328
242 Host_Reads_32MiB        0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       2900
245 Unkn_SiliconMotion_Attr 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       5700

But now I know I don't understand the output.

The 2 1TB drives get remounted read only all summer long.
They don't like the heat in my office.
Still, smart doesn't give me any hints.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151259

FromBob Eager <news0005@eager.cx>
Date2015-09-11 16:06 +0000
Message-ID<d5gcfcF98ltU25@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151256
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:32:29 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> 
>> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is
>>>applied to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>>
>> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE
>> WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail 
>>   Always       -       19125192 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100 
>>    100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0 7 Seek_Error_Rate     
>>      0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       1897873
> ...
>> SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged
> 
> These numbers have never been clear to me.
> How can the worst be 99, but the value 108?
> 
> I would have thought 108 is cumulative since the last clear, but there's
> no evidence of any time period that I can see.
> Also, the "raw" value is in the millions.

The VALUE and WORST columns contain normalised values for all of the 
attributes, between 0 and 255.

The VALUE part is the current normalised rate, over time. The WORST part 
is the normalised value of the worst rate there has been in the history 
of the device.

The THRESH value is the point at which the device is likely to fail.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151260

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2015-09-11 16:06 +0000
Message-ID<s_CIx.48654$lq4.41579@fx10.iad>
In reply to#151256
Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a 
>>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is applied 
>>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts. 
>>
>> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       19125192
>>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
>>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       1897873
>...
>> SMART Error Log Version: 1
>> No Errors Logged
>
>These numbers have never been clear to me.

$ man smartctl
 ...

Each Attribute has a "Raw" value, printed under the heading "RAW_VALUE",
and a "Normalized" value printed under the heading "VALUE".  [Note:
smartctl prints these values  in  base-10.]   In  the example
just given, the "Raw Value" for Attribute 12 would be the actual number
of times that the disk has been power-cycled, for example 365 if the
disk has been turned  on  once  per  day  for exactly one year.
Each vendor uses their own algorithm to convert this "Raw" value to a
"Normalized" value in the range from 1 to 254.  Please keep in mind
that smartctl only reports the different  Attribute types,
values, and thresholds as read from the device.  It does not carry out
the conversion between "Raw" and "Normalized" values: this is done by
the disk's firmware.
 ...
Each  Attribute  also  has a Threshold value (whose range is 0 to 255) 
which is printed under the heading "THRESH". If the Normalized value is
less than or equal to the Threshold value, then the Attribute is said
to have failed. If the Attribute is a pre-failure Attribute, then disk
failure is imminent.
 ...
So to summarize: the Raw Attribute values are the ones that might have 
a real physical interpretation, such as "Temperature Celsius", "Hours",
or "Start-Stop Cycles".  Each  manufacturer  converts  these,  using
their detailed knowledge of the disk's operations and failure modes, to
Normalized Attribute values in the range 1-254.  The current and worst
(lowest  measured)  of  these Normalized  Attribute  values are stored
on the disk, along with a Threshold value that the manufacturer has
determined will indicate that the disk is going to fail, or that it has
exceeded its design  age or aging limit.  smartctl does not calculate
any of the Attribute values, thresholds, or types, it merely reports
them from the SMART data on the device.


>How can the worst be 99, but the value 108?

Because failure is indicated by VALUE < THRESH.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151268

From"Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com>
Date2015-09-12 05:21 +1000
Message-ID<d5gnt9Fjhj8U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151260

"Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message 
news:s_CIx.48654$lq4.41579@fx10.iad...
> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>>>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is 
>>>>applied
>>>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>>>
>>> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
>>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE 
>>> UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>>>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail 
>>> s       -       19125192
>>>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
>>> s       -       0
>>>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail 
>>> s       -       1897873
>>...
>>> SMART Error Log Version: 1
>>> No Errors Logged
>>
>>These numbers have never been clear to me.
>
> $ man smartctl
> ...
>
> Each Attribute has a "Raw" value, printed under the heading "RAW_VALUE",

That isn't the case with that Raw_Read_Error_Rate field and Seagate drives.

> and a "Normalized" value printed under the heading "VALUE".  [Note:
> smartctl prints these values  in  base-10.]   In  the example
> just given, the "Raw Value" for Attribute 12 would be the actual number
> of times that the disk has been power-cycled, for example 365 if the
> disk has been turned  on  once  per  day  for exactly one year.
> Each vendor uses their own algorithm to convert this "Raw" value to a
> "Normalized" value in the range from 1 to 254.  Please keep in mind
> that smartctl only reports the different  Attribute types,
> values, and thresholds as read from the device.  It does not carry out
> the conversion between "Raw" and "Normalized" values: this is done by
> the disk's firmware.
> ...
> Each  Attribute  also  has a Threshold value (whose range is 0 to 255)
> which is printed under the heading "THRESH". If the Normalized value is
> less than or equal to the Threshold value, then the Attribute is said
> to have failed. If the Attribute is a pre-failure Attribute, then disk
> failure is imminent.
> ...
> So to summarize: the Raw Attribute values are the ones that might have
> a real physical interpretation, such as "Temperature Celsius", "Hours",
> or "Start-Stop Cycles".  Each  manufacturer  converts  these,  using
> their detailed knowledge of the disk's operations and failure modes, to
> Normalized Attribute values in the range 1-254.  The current and worst
> (lowest  measured)  of  these Normalized  Attribute  values are stored
> on the disk, along with a Threshold value that the manufacturer has
> determined will indicate that the disk is going to fail, or that it has
> exceeded its design  age or aging limit.  smartctl does not calculate
> any of the Attribute values, thresholds, or types, it merely reports
> them from the SMART data on the device.
>
>
>>How can the worst be 99, but the value 108?
>
> Because failure is indicated by VALUE < THRESH.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151266

From"Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com>
Date2015-09-12 05:16 +1000
Message-ID<d5gnjoFjei6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151256

"Dan Espen" <despen@verizon.net> wrote in message 
news:msus31$v06$1@dont-email.me...
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is 
>>>applied
>>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>>
>> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED 
>> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail 
>> s       -       19125192
>>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
>> s       -       0
>>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail 
>> s       -       1897873
> ...
>> SMART Error Log Version: 1
>> No Errors Logged

> These numbers have never been clear to me.

Yes, they are quite complex.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

> How can the worst be 99, but the value 108?

> I would have thought 108 is cumulative since the last clear,

No.

> but there's no evidence of any time period that I can see.
> Also, the "raw" value is in the millions.

The raw value is mostly what it says, the actual number of
occurrences of that field, but not with the Raw_Read_Error_Rate
with Seagate drives, that field is in fact an encoded field.

> I have 2 1TB hard drives and 1 128G SDD.
>
> The SSD shows some pretty good numbers:
>
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED 
> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0

And that shows that that field is done quite different in non Seagate 
drives.

>  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
>  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       48

That one isn't clock hours either.

> 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       32
> 160 Uncorrectable_Error_Cnt 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 161 Valid_Spare_Block_Cnt   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       45
> 163 Initial_Bad_Block_Count 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       24
> 164 Total_Erase_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       1425
> 165 Max_Erase_Count         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       6
> 166 Min_Erase_Count         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 167 Average_Erase_Count     0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       1
> 168 Max_Erase_Count_of_Spec 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       3000
> 169 Remaining_Lifetime_Perc 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       100
> 175 Program_Fail_Count_Chip 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 176 Erase_Fail_Count_Chip   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 177 Wear_Leveling_Count     0x0000   100   100   050    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 178 Runtime_Invalid_Blk_Cnt 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       15
> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       23
> 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0000   100   100   016    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0000   100   100   050    Old_age 
> line      -       639
> 232 Available_Reservd_Space 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       100
> 241 Host_Writes_32MiB       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       3328
> 242 Host_Reads_32MiB        0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       2900
> 245 Unkn_SiliconMotion_Attr 0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       5700
>
> But now I know I don't understand the output.
>
> The 2 1TB drives get remounted read only all summer long.
> They don't like the heat in my office.
> Still, smart doesn't give me any hints.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151257

From"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net>
Date2015-09-11 10:42 -0500
Message-ID<d5gb2cFg972U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151255
"Scott Lurndal" wrote:

> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>"philo" wrote:
>>
>>> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
>>> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850 
>>> meg
>>> drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did it and
>>> when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I felt like I
>>> was in a huge empty canyon.
>>
>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is 
>>applied
>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>>
>
> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
> smartctl 6.2 2014-07-16 r3952 [x86_64-linux-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64] (local 
> build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
> www.smartmontools.org
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family:     Seagate Desktop HDD.15
> Device Model:     ST4000DM000-1F2168
> Serial Number:    S300HH9N
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 06dd7aa97
> Firmware Version: CC54
> User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
> Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
> Rotation Rate:    5900 rpm
> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b
> SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
> Local Time is:    Fri Sep 11 07:56:38 2015 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
>                                        was never started.
>                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: 
> Disabled.
> Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine 
> completed
>                                        without error or no self-test has 
> ever
>                                        been run.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection:                (  107) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
>                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off 
> support.
>                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
>                                        command.
>                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
>                                        Self-test supported.
>                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
>                                        Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
>                                        power-saving mode.
>                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
>                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        ( 507) minutes.
> Conveyance self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:              (0x1085) SCT Status supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED 
> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail 
> s       -       19125192
>  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail 
> s       -       0
>  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age 
> ys       -       24
>  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
> s       -       0
>  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail 
> s       -       1897873
>  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   090   090   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       9478
> 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail 
> s       -       0
> 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age 
> ys       -       24
> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       1
> 184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0 0 0
> 189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   056   045    Old_age 
> ys       -       31 (Min/Max 22/44)
> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   077   077   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       47740
> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   044   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       31 (0 19 0 0 0)
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
> line      -       5250h+48m+45.560s
> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
> line      -       2814136976
> 242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
> line      -       3700421168
>
> SMART Error Log Version: 1
> No Errors Logged
>
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]
>
>
> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
> SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>    1        0        0  Not_testing
>    2        0        0  Not_testing
>    3        0        0  Not_testing
>    4        0        0  Not_testing
>    5        0        0  Not_testing
> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute 
> delay.

Thanks a lot!  As I understand it there were 19e6 errors in 5250 hours of 
use, so an error rate of 3.6e3 per hour or about one error per second.  Does 
that seem like I have done something terribly wrong? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151261

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2015-09-11 16:09 +0000
Message-ID<91DIx.48655$lq4.12414@fx10.iad>
In reply to#151257
"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>"Scott Lurndal" wrote:

>>  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail      -       19125192

>Thanks a lot!  As I understand it there were 19e6 errors in 5250 hours of 
>use, so an error rate of 3.6e3 per hour or about one error per second.  Does 
>that seem like I have done something terribly wrong? 
>

 The RAW values are manufacturer specific, there is no standard meaning
associated with them.   The VALUE/WORST/THRESH numbers are arbitrarily mapped
from the raw value by the drive firmware into an unsigned 8-bit field.  The higher
the VALUE w.r.t. THRESH, the healthier the drive.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151262

FromDan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
Date2015-09-11 12:20 -0400
Message-ID<msuutj$96i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#151261
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>"Scott Lurndal" wrote:
>
>>>  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail      -       19125192
>
>>Thanks a lot!  As I understand it there were 19e6 errors in 5250 hours of 
>>use, so an error rate of 3.6e3 per hour or about one error per second.  Does 
>>that seem like I have done something terribly wrong? 
>
>  The RAW values are manufacturer specific, there is no standard meaning
> associated with them.   The VALUE/WORST/THRESH numbers are arbitrarily mapped
> from the raw value by the drive firmware into an unsigned 8-bit field.  The higher
> the VALUE w.r.t. THRESH, the healthier the drive.

Thanks, think I have it too.
Bottom line, next time read the man page instead of doing Google searches.

-- 
Dan Espen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151267

From"Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com>
Date2015-09-12 05:18 +1000
Message-ID<d5gnocFjfjiU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151257

"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:d5gb2cFg972U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Scott Lurndal" wrote:
>
>> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>>"philo" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
>>>> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850 
>>>> meg
>>>> drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did it and
>>>> when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I felt like I
>>>> was in a huge empty canyon.
>>>
>>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is 
>>>applied
>>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>>>
>>
>> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
>> smartctl 6.2 2014-07-16 r3952 [x86_64-linux-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64] 
>> (local build)
>> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
>> www.smartmontools.org
>>
>> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
>> Model Family:     Seagate Desktop HDD.15
>> Device Model:     ST4000DM000-1F2168
>> Serial Number:    S300HH9N
>> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 06dd7aa97
>> Firmware Version: CC54
>> User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
>> Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
>> Rotation Rate:    5900 rpm
>> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
>> ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b
>> SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
>> Local Time is:    Fri Sep 11 07:56:38 2015 PDT
>> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
>> SMART support is: Enabled
>>
>> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
>> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>>
>> General SMART Values:
>> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
>>                                        was never started.
>>                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: 
>> Disabled.
>> Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine 
>> completed
>>                                        without error or no self-test has 
>> ever
>>                                        been run.
>> Total time to complete Offline
>> data collection:                (  107) seconds.
>> Offline data collection
>> capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
>>                                        Auto Offline data collection 
>> on/off support.
>>                                        Suspend Offline collection upon 
>> new
>>                                        command.
>>                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
>>                                        Self-test supported.
>>                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
>>                                        Selective Self-test supported.
>> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
>>                                        power-saving mode.
>>                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
>> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
>>                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
>> Short self-test routine
>> recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
>> Extended self-test routine
>> recommended polling time:        ( 507) minutes.
>> Conveyance self-test routine
>> recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
>> SCT capabilities:              (0x1085) SCT Status supported.
>>
>> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
>> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED 
>> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>>  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail s       - 
>> 19125192
>>  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail s       - 
>> 0
>>  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age ys       - 
>> 24
>>  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail s       - 
>> 0
>>  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail s       - 
>> 1897873
>>  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   090   090   000    Old_age ys       - 
>> 9478
>> 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail s       - 
>> 0
>> 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age ys       - 
>> 24
>> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age 
>>    -       1
>> 184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0 0 0
>> 189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   056   045    Old_age 
>>    -       31 (Min/Max 22/44)
>> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   077   077   000    Old_age 
>>    -       47740
>> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   044   000    Old_age 
>>    -       31 (0 19 0 0 0)
>> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age 
>>      -       0
>> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age 
>>    -       0
>> 240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
>>      -       5250h+48m+45.560s
>> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
>>      -       2814136976
>> 242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
>>      -       3700421168
>>
>> SMART Error Log Version: 1
>> No Errors Logged
>>
>> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
>> No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]
>>
>>
>> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
>> SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>>    1        0        0  Not_testing
>>    2        0        0  Not_testing
>>    3        0        0  Not_testing
>>    4        0        0  Not_testing
>>    5        0        0  Not_testing
>> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>>  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
>> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute 
>> delay.
>
> Thanks a lot!  As I understand it there were 19e6 errors in 5250 hours of 
> use,

No it does not.

> so an error rate of 3.6e3 per hour or about one error per second.  Does 
> that seem like I have done something terribly wrong?

Yes, Seagate drives handle that field quite differently.

That field is encoded, it isn't a count of the number of
data errors what have been handled by the CRC system
since the drive started to be used. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151265

From"Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com>
Date2015-09-12 05:08 +1000
Message-ID<d5gn5vFjaofU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#151255

"Scott Lurndal" <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote in message 
news:1%BIx.48652$lq4.42332@fx10.iad...
> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>>"philo" wrote:
>>
>>> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
>>> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850 
>>> meg
>>> drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did it and
>>> when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I felt like I
>>> was in a huge empty canyon.
>>
>>Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>>current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is 
>>applied
>>to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>>
>
> # smartctl --all /dev/sdc
> smartctl 6.2 2014-07-16 r3952 [x86_64-linux-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64] (local 
> build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
> www.smartmontools.org
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family:     Seagate Desktop HDD.15
> Device Model:     ST4000DM000-1F2168
> Serial Number:    S300HH9N
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 06dd7aa97
> Firmware Version: CC54
> User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
> Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
> Rotation Rate:    5900 rpm
> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b
> SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
> Local Time is:    Fri Sep 11 07:56:38 2015 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
>                                        was never started.
>                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: 
> Disabled.
> Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine 
> completed
>                                        without error or no self-test has 
> ever
>                                        been run.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection:                (  107) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
>                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off 
> support.
>                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
>                                        command.
>                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
>                                        Self-test supported.
>                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
>                                        Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
>                                        power-saving mode.
>                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
>                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        ( 507) minutes.
> Conveyance self-test routine
> recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:              (0x1085) SCT Status supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED 
> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   108   099   006    Pre-fail 
> s       -       19125192

That number is not in fact the raw read error rate with Seagate drives.

It's an encoded field which is much more complicated than that with Seagate
drives and you can see that by comparing that field with other non Seagate
drives of the same size.

>  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail 
> s       -       0
>  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age 
> ys       -       24
>  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
> s       -       0
>  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   063   060   030    Pre-fail 
> s       -       1897873
>  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   090   090   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       9478
> 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail 
> s       -       0
> 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age 
> ys       -       24
> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       1
> 184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0 0 0
> 189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   069   056   045    Old_age 
> ys       -       31 (Min/Max 22/44)
> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   077   077   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       47740
> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   031   044   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       31 (0 19 0 0 0)
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age 
> line      -       0
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age 
> ys       -       0
> 240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
> line      -       5250h+48m+45.560s
> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
> line      -       2814136976
> 242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age 
> line      -       3700421168
>
> SMART Error Log Version: 1
> No Errors Logged
>
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]
>
>
> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
> SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>    1        0        0  Not_testing
>    2        0        0  Not_testing
>    3        0        0  Not_testing
>    4        0        0  Not_testing
>    5        0        0  Not_testing
> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute 
> delay.
>
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151269

From"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com>
Date2015-09-11 14:34 -0500
Message-ID<msva86$o8m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#151253
"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:d5g6nnFf5u4U1@mid.individual.net...
> "philo" wrote:
>
>> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
>> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>>
>>
>> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850 meg 
>> drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did it and 
>> when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I felt like I 
>> was in a huge empty canyon.
>
> Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a 
> current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is 
> applied to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.

I read somewhere that a large percentage of the 3 TB drives have crashed, 
but that the 4 TB drives are much more reliable.

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151369

Fromphilo <philo@privacy.net>
Date2015-09-15 05:29 -0500
Message-ID<mt8rr7$asb$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#151269
On 09/11/2015 02:34 PM, Charles Richmond wrote:
> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:d5g6nnFf5u4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "philo" wrote:
>>
>>> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine...
>>> it went well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850
>>> meg drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did
>>> it and when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I
>>> felt like I was in a huge empty canyon.
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a
>> current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is
>> applied to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.
>
> I read somewhere that a large percentage of the 3 TB drives have
> crashed, but that the 4 TB drives are much more reliable.
>



Don't know about that but I've given the guy enough lectures about 
backing everything up.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151274

Fromterry+googleblog@tmk.com
Date2015-09-11 16:05 -0700
Message-ID<5ea0d495-a0d7-4d2d-837d-1e7280d3c445@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#151253
On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 10:28:08 AM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
> Does anyone have any idea at all as to what the raw error rate is on a 
> current 4 TB drive?  That is before ECC and whatever other magic is applied 
> to it. ISTM the signal must be meaured in nanovolts.

SAS drives are much better at revealing this information:

Error counter log:
           Errors Corrected by           Total   Correction     Gigabytes    Total
               ECC          rereads/    errors   algorithm      processed    uncorrected
           fast | delayed   rewrites  corrected  invocations   [10^9 bytes]  errors
read:   52515648        0         0  52515648   52515648       2100.253           0
write:         0        0         0         0          0       1383.062           0
verify: 41656319        0         0  41656319   41656319       1020.481           0

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151258

FromWalter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com>
Date2015-09-11 11:55 -0400
Message-ID<msuthk$7i3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#151246
On 10/09/2015 9:33 PM, philo wrote:
> Today I installed a 4Tb hard drive in a friend's machine... it went
> well and was a "no big deal" operation.
>
>
> Seems like only yesterday...with trembling hands...I replaced the 850
>  meg drive in my P-1 with a 2 Gb drive. I was sure nervous when I did
> it and when I got it installed and checked the drive's capacity, I
> felt like I was in a huge empty canyon.

The first 1G drive I bought I paid $1300 for bargain it was at the time.
Now I get 8G thumb drives at my local grocery store checkout for a small
handful of pocket change.

Someone sent me a advertisement for a 1T thumb drive. 20 Years from now
we will be keeping a permanent record of our (entire) lives in high
resolution 3D video:)

w..

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151263

FromShadow <Sh@dow.br>
Date2015-09-11 14:42 -0300
Message-ID<qg46vadslok62gv3rf15pf73k9mtc3usrc@4ax.com>
In reply to#151258
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:55:24 -0400, Walter Banks
<walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:

>20 Years from now
>we will be keeping a permanent record of our (entire) lives in high
>resolution 3D video:)

	Just ask for a copy, it's on a government site somewhere ...
	;)
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151271

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2015-09-11 16:10 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1509111609130.12210@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#151263
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015, Shadow wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:55:24 -0400, Walter Banks
> <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>
>> 20 Years from now
>> we will be keeping a permanent record of our (entire) lives in high
>> resolution 3D video:)
>
> 	Just ask for a copy, it's on a government site somewhere ...
> 	;)
> 	[]'s

YOu mean the government is now providing backup service?

No fee charged, until you want something, at which point it costs big 
bucks?

Or can you retrieve a missing file through the Freedom of Information Act?

   Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151272

FromAnne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date2015-09-11 15:07 -0700
Message-ID<87fv2kzk2u.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain>
In reply to#151271
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
> YOu mean the government is now providing backup service?

except from when they aren't

somebody's reference on Facebook

Never Forget - On 09/10/01, Sec Rumsfeld announced $2.3T
was missing from the pentagon operating budget. Hours
later, the Pentagon Accounting Offices were Destroyed.
https://www.facebook.com/End.AIPAC/photos/a.542024679212055.1073741825.379531218794736/903420069739179/
The War On Waste
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-war-on-waste/


some comments, backups?

where were the data backups or had it be outsourced to private-equity
subsidiary? aka enormous uptic last decade in outsourcing to for-profit
companies and private-equity has so perfected looting for-profit
gov. contractors ... they had the companies doing security clearances
just filling out paperwork and not bothering to actually do any checks
http://www.investingdaily.com/17693/spies-like-us/

Security clearances used to be a government function too, but are now a
profit center for various private-equity subsidiaries.

... snip ...

including company that did Snowden's security clearance.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article24750283.html
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/06/21/Heres-How-Edward-Snowden-Got-Top-Secret-Clearance

more recent instance

OPM Contractor's Parent Firm Has a Troubled History
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/24/opm-contractor-veritas/

Founded in 1992 by the late investment banker Robert McKeon, Veritas
Capital grew quickly by buying up government contractors and forming
close ties with former senior government officials. Of the many
defense-related investments made by the company, the most famous has
been the 2005 purchase of DynCorp International, a scandal-plagued
company that played a pivotal role in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

... snip ...

private equity posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity

The Pentagon Lost $8.5 TRILLION of Taxpayers' Money
http://ringoffireradio.com/2015/06/the-pentagon-lost-8-5-trillion-of-taxpayer-money/

DOD isn't the only way that the military industrial complex has of
sucking money .... congress also does "directed appropriation" foreign
aid .... where a foreign country can only use the foreign aid for the
purchase of specific american made military hardware (and of course
since 9/11 ... it also has DHS) ... corporate representatives approach
former eastern bloc countries and tell them if they vote for invasion of
Iraq in the UN, they will get approval to join NATO and directed
appropriation USAID (that can only be used to buy "modern" american made
military equipment)
http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-War-Lockheed-Military-Industrial-ebook/dp/B0047T86BA/

also
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/03/books/corrupt-from-top-to-bottom.html?pagewanted=1

HBO made a movie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars

son-in-law 1st tour in Iraq was foot-patrol Fallujah 2004-2005, 2nd tour
was "mounted", bradley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Bradley#M2A3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Fighting_Vehicle#M3_Bradley

2007-2008 (described as worse than Fallujah, but because administration
said things were better didn't get much attention).
http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Baqubah-Killing-Our-ebook/dp/B007VBBS9I/

they had boneyard size of three football fields full of destroyed
Bradleys and Abrams M1 tanks, they were loosing so many Bradleys that
they started getting mothballed Bradleys from Desert Storm (with
incompatible/obsolete communication)

... and some related

Pentagon remains stubbornly unable to account for its hundreds of
billions (multiple trillions over the years); A celebration by the
Marine Corps of its accounting prowess turns out to have been premature,
with a discrepancy in a key audit of $800 million
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/08/03/17735/pentagon-remains-stubbornly-unable-account-its-billions

The Pentagon Is Still Terrible at Accounting for Your Tax Dollars; A
celebration by the Marine Corps of its accounting prowess turns out to
have been premature, with a discrepancy in a key audit of $800 million.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/03/the-pentagon-is-still-terrible-at-accounting-for-taxpayer-dollars-marine-corps-800-million-gao/

Marine Corps Can't Account for $800 Million
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2015/08/04/marine-corps-cant-account-for-800-million/

It mentions that lower level objections were run over and higher ups
signed off as accurate despite objections. In theory if this was subject
to Sarbanes-Oxley and sign-off on financial audits despite objections
... it would call for the people doing the sign-offs doing jail time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act

2010 CBO report was that previous decade, DOD budget was increased by
over $2T compared to baseline, $1+T for the two wars ... and $1+T that
they couldn't find anything to show for.

How Private Contractors Have Created a Shadow NSA; A new cybersecurity
elite moves between government and private practice, taking state
secrets with them (also references oil rig company that was transformed
into one of the largest defense contractors after former SECDEF and
future VP becomes CEO, including no-bid contracts in Iraq)
http://www.thenation.com/article/how-private-contractors-have-created-shadow-nsa/

above includes references to some of the events around the spreading
(private-equity & for-profit) "success of failure" culture (make more
money off series of failures)
http://www.govexec.com/excellence/management-matters/2007/04/the-success-of-failure/24107/

(note sometimes clicking govexec serves up a blank page and you have to
repeat the click)

past posts mentioning military-industrial complex
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#military.industrial.complex
perpetual war
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#perpetual.war

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#151290

Fromsidd@situ.com (sidd)
Date2015-09-12 15:34 -0400
Message-ID<mt1uod$2uo$1@Lazarus.situ.com>
In reply to#151272
In article <87fv2kzk2u.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain>,
Anne & Lynn Wheeler  <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:

>The War On Waste
>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-war-on-waste/
>
>
>some comments, backups?
>
>where were the data backups or had it be outsourced to private-equity
>subsidiary? aka enormous uptic last decade in outsourcing to for-profit
>companies and private-equity has so perfected looting for-profit
>gov. contractors ... they had the companies doing security clearances
>just filling out paperwork and not bothering to actually do any checks
>http://www.investingdaily.com/17693/spies-like-us/

a search for the words "DOD" and "unauditable" shows this was the case
long before 2001

sidd

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers


csiph-web