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Re: Who Knew ?

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From Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Who Knew ?
Date Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:02:13 -1000
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How Did America's Sherman Tank Win against Superior German Tanks in
World War II? Two tank philosophies, totally at odds with each
other. What were they?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/how-did-americas-sherman-tank-win-against-superior-german-tanks-world-war-ii-185625

From Guderian's Panzer Leader
https://www.amazon.com/Panzer-Leader-Heinz-Guderian-ebook/dp/B07KTBSD1L/
loc2902-3:

Hitler then said: 'If I had known that the figures for Russian tank
strength which you gave in your book were in fact the true ones, I would
not--I believe--ever have started this war.'

loc2903-6:

He was referring to my book Achtung! Panzer!, published in 1937, in
which I had estimated Russian tank strength at that time as 10,000; both
the Chief of the Army General Staff, Beck, and the censor had disagreed
with this statement. It had cost me a lot of trouble to get that figure
printed; but I had been able to show that intelligence reports at the
time spoke of 17,000 Russian tanks and that my estimate was therefore,
if anything, a very conservative one.

loc2262-64:

At this time our yearly tank production scarcely amounted to more than
1,000 of all types. In view of our enemies' production figures this was
very small. As far back as 1933 I had visited a single Russian tank
factory which was producing 22 tanks per day of the Christie-Russki
type.

... snip ...

Tanks in the German Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_the_German_Army
First encountered on 23 June 1941,[24] the T-34 outclassed the existing
Panzer III and IV.[25] At the insistence of General Heinz Guderian, a
special Panzerkommision was dispatched to the Eastern Front to assess
the T-34.[26] Among the features of the Soviet tank considered most
significant were the sloping armor, which gave much improved shot
deflection and also increased the effective armor thickness against
penetration, the wide track, which improved mobility over soft ground,
and the 76.2 mm gun, which had good armor penetration and fired an
effective high-explosive round.

... snip ...

The british referred to Shermans as Tommy Cookers because crews were
being sent out to be slaughtered; Boyd's briefings had German's with
10:1 kill ratio (10 Shermans killed for every German tank, even inferior
to the Russians), US was planning on winning with battle of attrition;
Germans would run out of tanks and crew before the US (even at 10:1)
... although US folklore running out of crews and having to recruit
kitchen staff and cooks.
http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/m4-sherman-vs-german-panther/ The
Sherman was at a disadvantage. Although it mounted 75mm cannon, it was
of a low-velocity type. The Sherman's designers felt that a low-velocity
gun would last longer than a high-velocity one. They failed to realize
that few Shermans would ever last long enough in combat to wear out
their barrels. Later versions would have an upgraded high-velocity gun,
but they would not reach front-line units until late November 1944, five
months after the Normandy invasion. The armor, at 81mm, was considerably
thinner than the Panther's and unable to withstand its armor-piercing
ammunition.

... snip ...

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
  Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-01 21:40 +0000
    Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 19:27 -0400
      Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-02 05:19 +0000
  Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-01 17:38 -0700
  Re: Who Knew ? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-11-02 00:21 -0400
    Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 19:09 +0000
  Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
    Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
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      Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
        Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 09:51 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:37 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:13 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:22 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:22 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 12:05 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-05 08:20 -1000
                Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:02 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:26 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:25 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 19:10 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 21:43 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:53 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:38 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 13:30 -0400
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                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:37 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Churchillian version John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-05 20:02 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:14 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:26 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:47 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:17 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 21:50 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-06 11:31 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-06 15:14 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-06 16:45 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-11-05 22:43 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:18 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 20:04 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 23:52 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-06 05:13 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:16 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-n7j-this> - 2021-11-04 07:17 -0700
              Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:47 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 20:34 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-m46-this> - 2021-11-05 07:08 -0800
                Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-07 15:43 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 16:17 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 22:18 +0000
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                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:29 +0000
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              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
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              Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:11 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:16 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-04 17:31 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 13:04 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:58 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-04 17:47 -1000
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:07 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:42 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-04 17:53 -1000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 13:33 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-05 10:06 -1000
                Re: Who Knew ? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-11-06 15:38 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:39 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:33 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 12:17 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 14:45 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 15:28 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 18:52 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 08:54 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 10:07 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-06 08:26 -1000
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 22:05 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:04 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 18:32 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-06 19:25 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-07 11:20 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 08:55 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 10:15 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-07 23:44 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-08 15:39 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-11-08 17:06 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom (Lawrence Statton (NK1G)) - 2021-11-09 19:06 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 09:51 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-08 10:52 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-08 19:14 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-08 12:09 -1000
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:38 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-09 15:30 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-09 14:57 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-11 15:03 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-11 17:02 -1000
                Re: Alternate Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-08 22:22 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 18:07 -0500
                Re: military options, was Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-09 01:58 +0000
                Re: military options, was Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 23:17 -0500
                Re: military options, was Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-09 10:02 -0500
                Re: military options, was Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:51 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:35 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-09 09:09 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-11-14 18:45 +0100
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-14 12:39 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-15 00:43 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-16 08:58 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-16 16:57 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 10:54 -0600
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-17 14:16 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-14 14:32 -0500
            Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
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              Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
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                Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
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        Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 22:46 +0000
        Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700

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