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Start 'Menu' Problems

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  Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-10 14:31 +0000
    Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-10 15:17 +0000
      Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-10 16:47 +0000
      Re: Start 'Menu' Problems mummycullen@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (MummyChunk) - 2025-02-10 17:21 +0000
    Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-10 08:27 -0800
      Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-10 17:27 +0000
    Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-10 11:45 -0500
      Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-10 17:50 +0000
        Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-10 13:19 -0500
          Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-10 19:14 +0000
        Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-10 20:21 +0000
    Re: Start 'Menu' Problems MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-02-10 19:00 +0000
      Re: Start 'Menu' Problems MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-02-10 19:03 +0000
        Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-10 19:24 +0000
          Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-11 13:25 +0000
            Re: Start 'Menu' Problems MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-02-12 13:56 +0000
              Re: Start 'Menu' Problems Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-12 18:04 +0000

#182170 — Start 'Menu' Problems

One of the first things I do in Windows 10 is remove all the Microshit 
bloat tiles from the Start 'Menu', and drag its right-hand border 
inwards to leave just the program list.  However, today I thought that I 
might try to use the Start 'Menu' as originally intended, and put my own 
stuff there, because using the program list supplied by Windows 10 is 
just a PITA, a significant problem being:

:-(  If your original W7 Start Menu had two versions of a program 
*anywhere* in it  -  as does mine, twice over, because besides the 
current version of Firefox I have an older version with a different 
profile for debugging my website, and I have two Thunderbird profiles, 
one for mail, and the other for news  -  then Windows, even Windows 7, 
is incapable of distinguishing between the two.

The two Firefox versions weren't much of a problem in Windows 7, because 
they are in Start Menu links, and, because the command lines in the 
links are different because the profile parameter is different, they 
appear correctly as two different items in the one submenu where they 
appear together, and I can pin the current version to the Start Menu to 
have it available at the top level there without W7 getting confused 
between the two.  Not so in Windows 10+, which insists on offering 
*only* the legacy debugging version when I start to type F-i-r-e-f-o-x, 
which frankly seems utterly perverse.  However I could just uninstall 
the legacy version, so, although immensely irritating because it's just 
another example of Microshit bug-gery causing unnecessary problems 
through lack of thought and proper testing, I can probably get around it.

The two Thunderbird links were more of a problem even in Windows 7, 
because I wanted them both pinned to the top-level of the Start Menu, 
and, because they linked to the same program, I could only have one or 
the other, not both.  I got over this by creating two links to 
thunderbird.exe called thunderbird_mail.exe and thunderbird_news.exe and 
putting those in the command line of the Start Menu links, and then 
pinning both to the Start Menu successfully.  But this ruse no longer 
works in Windows 10, so when I pin the first, I only get an option to 
unpin the second, even though it's not pinned.

I've spent over an hour this morning on my third ranked PC trying to get 
around this problem before backing up W10 and upgrading it to Windows 
11.  Can anyone suggest how I can get the two links onto the Start Menu? 
  For reference, the two command-lines are ...

     Target:    <link path>\thunderbird_mail.exe -no-remote -P Mail
     Start in:  <profile path>\Mail

... and ...

     Target:    <link path>\thunderbird_news.exe -no-remote -P News
     Start in:  <profile path>\News

Another problem:  One might have thought I could just select all the 
links in the top level of my W7 Start Menu, still there in W10 but 
ignored by it, <rt-click> the selection, and choose 'Pin to Start'?  Not 
so fast and convenient, it only pins the first in the selection, so 
really that's yet another bug.

Another problem:  Digiguide, admittedly quite an old version, but it 
works in Windows 7, is prevented from running in Windows 10, without any 
explanation as to why.

Rant:  This is the sort of exasperating, maddening time-wasting shit 
that happens every time I try and domesticate Windows 10 or 11, and 
usually I just give up and revert to 7, which, though it took a long 
time a while back, I was able in the end to house-train sufficiently to 
make it ergonomically efficient and thus very usable.  I've never been 
able to achieve this in Windows 10 or 11.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182172

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

[About trying to customize the Windows 10 Start menu:]

  I can't really give any suggestions on this as I never tried to
customize the Windows 10 (or 8.1 or 11) Start menu. But given that you
like the Windows 7 Start menu, why don't you just install Open-Shell
Menu [1] and get what's essentially a Windows 7 like Start menu? (One of
the 'Start Menu Style's is 'Windows 7 style'. I use 'Classic with two
columns', because it's more like Vista (I never had 7).)

  I've used (Classic Start Menu and) Open-Shell Menu on Windows 8.1, 10
and 11, because none of them had/have a 'real' Windows Start Menu.

  You can have *both* the native Start menu *and* Open-Shell Menu. You
can invoke the native Start menu from the Open-Shell Menu. And you can
hide Open-Shell Menu.

  "Open-Shell Menu, don't leave home without it!"

[1] <https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/>
N.B. The GitHub page does not have any screenshots, but on the old
Classic Shell page you can get some idea of what it looks like
(<http://www.classicshell.net/>).

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#182177

On 2025-02-10 15:17, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> [About trying to customize the Windows 10 Start menu:]
> 
>    I can't really give any suggestions on this as I never tried to
> customize the Windows 10 (or 8.1 or 11) Start menu. But given that you
> like the Windows 7 Start menu, why don't you just install Open-Shell
> Menu [1] and get what's essentially a Windows 7 like Start menu? (One of
> the 'Start Menu Style's is 'Windows 7 style'. I use 'Classic with two
> columns', because it's more like Vista (I never had 7).)
> 
>    I've used (Classic Start Menu and) Open-Shell Menu on Windows 8.1, 10
> and 11, because none of them had/have a 'real' Windows Start Menu.
> 
>    You can have *both* the native Start menu *and* Open-Shell Menu. You
> can invoke the native Start menu from the Open-Shell Menu. And you can
> hide Open-Shell Menu.
> 
>    "Open-Shell Menu, don't leave home without it!"
> 
> [1] <https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/>
> N.B. The GitHub page does not have any screenshots, but on the old
> Classic Shell page you can get some idea of what it looks like
> (<http://www.classicshell.net/>).

Thanks Frank.  Yes, I've tried either ClassicShell or OpenShell before, 
I can't now remember which, perhaps that's the only thing left.  I was 
rather hoping that sufficient effort might yield results with the native 
Windows shell, but it seems always to be a hiding to nothing.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182178

> Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Java Jive <java> wrote:
> 
> [About trying to customize the Windows 10 Start menu:]
> 
> I can't really give any suggestions on this as I never tried to
> customize the Windows 10 (or 8.1 or 11) Start menu. But given that you
> like the Windows 7 Start menu, why don't you just install Open-Shell
> Menu [1] and get what's essentially a Windows 7 like Start menu? (One of
> the 'Start Menu Style's is 'Windows 7 style'. I use 'Classic with two
> columns', because it's more like Vista (I never had 7).)
> 
> I've used (Classic Start Menu and) Open-Shell Menu on Windows 8.1, 10
> and 11, because none of them had/have a 'real' Windows Start Menu.
> 
> You can have *both* the native Start menu *and* Open-Shell Menu. You
> can invoke the native Start menu from the Open-Shell Menu. And you can
> hide Open-Shell Menu.
> 
> "Open-Shell Menu, don't leave home without it!"
> 
> [1]  https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/
> N.B. The GitHub page does not have any screenshots, but on the old
> Classic Shell page you can get some idea of what it looks like
> ( http://www.classicshell.net/ ).


Have you tried the GodMode tool? 


This is a response to the post seen at:
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=683562610#683562610

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#182173

On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 14:31:38 +0000, Java Jive wrote:
> If your original W7 Start Menu had two versions of a program 
> *anywhere* in it  -  as does mine, twice over, because besides the 
> current version of Firefox I have an older version with a different 
> profile for debugging my website, and I have two Thunderbird profiles, 
> one for mail, and the other for news  -  then Windows, even Windows 7, 
> is incapable of distinguishing between the two.

I haven't tried this, but the start menu shortcuts are 
in 
"%programdata%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs"
Can you give different names to the shortcuts to the 
running with the two profiles?

-- 
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA         
https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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#182179

On 2025-02-10 16:27, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 14:31:38 +0000, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> If your original W7 Start Menu had two versions of a program
>> *anywhere* in it  -  as does mine, twice over, because besides the
>> current version of Firefox I have an older version with a different
>> profile for debugging my website, and I have two Thunderbird profiles,
>> one for mail, and the other for news  -  then Windows, even Windows 7,
>> is incapable of distinguishing between the two.
> 
> I haven't tried this, but the start menu shortcuts are
> in
> "%programdata%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs"
> Can you give different names to the shortcuts to the
> running with the two profiles?

They already have different names, otherwise they could not exist in the 
same folder, but Windows 10+ ignores their names, tries to be too clever 
by half by looking at the program actually loaded, and thus only 
achieves a useless FU.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182176

On 2/10/2025 9:31 AM, Java Jive wrote:

> Rant:  This is the sort of exasperating, maddening time-wasting shit 
> that happens every time I try and domesticate Windows 10 or 11, and 
> usually I just give up and revert to 7, which, though it took a long 
> time a while back, I was able in the end to house-train sufficiently to 
> make it ergonomically efficient and thus very usable.  I've never been 
> able to achieve this in Windows 10 or 11.
> 

   As Stan indicated, the solution is to clean up the Start
Menu folders. (There's yours and all users. I just put
everything into all users for convenience.) I create
folders, like Office, Utilities, etc. Then I delete all but
actual program shortcuts, name them as desired, and
put them in the approriate folder.

   I also use Classic/Open Shell, but I expect this would
still work with the normal menu.

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#182180

On 2025-02-10 16:45, Newyana2 wrote:
>
> On 2/10/2025 9:31 AM, Java Jive wrote:
> 
>> Rant:  This is the sort of exasperating, maddening time-wasting shit 
>> that happens every time I try and domesticate Windows 10 or 11, and 
>> usually I just give up and revert to 7, which, though it took a long 
>> time a while back, I was able in the end to house-train sufficiently 
>> to make it ergonomically efficient and thus very usable.  I've never 
>> been able to achieve this in Windows 10 or 11.
> 
>    As Stan indicated, the solution is to clean up the Start
> Menu folders. (There's yours and all users. I just put
> everything into all users for convenience.) I create
> folders, like Office, Utilities, etc. Then I delete all but
> actual program shortcuts, name them as desired, and
> put them in the approriate folder.

I did all that for the original W7 Start Menu that works, but neither of 
you seem to have noticed that the Start Menu folders, system or user, 
are largely ignored in Windows 10 (actually IMS it's Windows 8+).  What 
determines what 'tiles' appear on the RHS of a given user's Start Menu 
in Windows 10?  I, a Windows user since 3.1 of some 40 years standing, 
who has created all the Windows builds used in a major UK financial 
business, have no fucking idea.

*Logically* and *rationally* (terms that Microsoft programmers don't 
seem to understand) you'd expect there to be a sub-folder of the user's 
profile containing the icons that the user has pinned to Start.  Based 
on Windows 7, I'd expect it to be ...
  %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick 
Launch\User Pinned\StartMenu
... but, if that was really the case, everything in that folder at the 
time of upgrading to W10 should automatically appear on a user's Start 
Menu, but it doesn't; moreover, there doesn't seem to be a folder that 
contains the bloat crap that does appear on a user's Start Menu, so I 
think it must now be held in the registry somewhere.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182181

On 2/10/2025 12:50 PM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2025-02-10 16:45, Newyana2 wrote:
>>
>> On 2/10/2025 9:31 AM, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>>> Rant:  This is the sort of exasperating, maddening time-wasting shit 
>>> that happens every time I try and domesticate Windows 10 or 11, and 
>>> usually I just give up and revert to 7, which, though it took a long 
>>> time a while back, I was able in the end to house-train sufficiently 
>>> to make it ergonomically efficient and thus very usable.  I've never 
>>> been able to achieve this in Windows 10 or 11.
>>
>>    As Stan indicated, the solution is to clean up the Start
>> Menu folders. (There's yours and all users. I just put
>> everything into all users for convenience.) I create
>> folders, like Office, Utilities, etc. Then I delete all but
>> actual program shortcuts, name them as desired, and
>> put them in the approriate folder.
> 
> I did all that for the original W7 Start Menu that works, but neither of 
> you seem to have noticed that the Start Menu folders, system or user, 
> are largely ignored in Windows 10

   Ah. Sorry, I didn't know that. To my mind the Win10/11 Start
  Menus are so bad that I've never really used them. I just install
Classic/Open Shell and it works as expected.


  (actually IMS it's Windows 8+).  What
> determines what 'tiles' appear on the RHS of a given user's Start Menu 
> in Windows 10?  I, a Windows user since 3.1 of some 40 years standing, 
> who has created all the Windows builds used in a major UK financial 
> business, have no fucking idea.
> 
> *Logically* and *rationally* (terms that Microsoft programmers don't 
> seem to understand) you'd expect there to be a sub-folder of the user's 
> profile containing the icons that the user has pinned to Start.  Based 
> on Windows 7, I'd expect it to be ...
>   %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick 
> Launch\User Pinned\StartMenu

  You lost me there. I use Quick Launch on the taskbar. (Which must be
set up in Windows 10.) I don't know
from Start Menu pinning. The solution I offered was only for once you
actually open the Programs menu on the Start Menu. The folders and
shortcuts in the Start Menu folders are felected there as menus and
submenus.

My Start Menu folders are as follows:

C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu

As noted, I combine the two in all users, leaving nothing in my
personal folder. https://i.postimg.cc/JnznQkWk/startmenu.jpg

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#182184

On 2025-02-10 18:19, Newyana2 wrote:
>
> On 2/10/2025 12:50 PM, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 2025-02-10 16:45, Newyana2 wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2/10/2025 9:31 AM, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rant:  This is the sort of exasperating, maddening time-wasting shit 
>>>> that happens every time I try and domesticate Windows 10 or 11, and 
>>>> usually I just give up and revert to 7, which, though it took a long 
>>>> time a while back, I was able in the end to house-train sufficiently 
>>>> to make it ergonomically efficient and thus very usable.  I've never 
>>>> been able to achieve this in Windows 10 or 11.
>>>
>>>    As Stan indicated, the solution is to clean up the Start
>>> Menu folders. (There's yours and all users. I just put
>>> everything into all users for convenience.) I create
>>> folders, like Office, Utilities, etc. Then I delete all but
>>> actual program shortcuts, name them as desired, and
>>> put them in the approriate folder.
>>
>> I did all that for the original W7 Start Menu that works, but neither 
>> of you seem to have noticed that the Start Menu folders, system or 
>> user, are largely ignored in Windows 10
> 
>    Ah. Sorry, I didn't know that. To my mind the Win10/11 Start
>   Menus are so bad that I've never really used them. I just install
> Classic/Open Shell and it works as expected.
> 
>>   (actually IMS it's Windows 8+).  What
>> determines what 'tiles' appear on the RHS of a given user's Start Menu 
>> in Windows 10?  I, a Windows user since 3.1 of some 40 years standing, 
>> who has created all the Windows builds used in a major UK financial 
>> business, have no fucking idea.
>>
>> *Logically* and *rationally* (terms that Microsoft programmers don't 
>> seem to understand) you'd expect there to be a sub-folder of the 
>> user's profile containing the icons that the user has pinned to 
>> Start.  Based on Windows 7, I'd expect it to be ...
>>
>>   %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick 
>> Launch\User Pinned\StartMenu
> 
>   You lost me there. I use Quick Launch on the taskbar. (Which must be
> set up in Windows 10.) I don't know
> from Start Menu pinning. The solution I offered was only for once you
> actually open the Programs menu on the Start Menu. The folders and
> shortcuts in the Start Menu folders are felected there as menus and
> submenus.
> 
> My Start Menu folders are as follows:
> 
> C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
> 
> C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
> 
> As noted, I combine the two in all users, leaving nothing in my
> personal folder. https://i.postimg.cc/JnznQkWk/startmenu.jpg

Yes, it's damned confusing, and even more so than I had thought ...


In W2k/XP, it was *relatively* straightfoward:

The 'System' Start Menu was the All Users' Start Menu, held in ...

   %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Start Menu

... while I don't think there was a System equivalent of Quick Links.

A user's Start Menu was held in ...

   %USERPROFILE%\Start Menu

... and his/her Quick Links were held in ...

   %USERPROFILE%\Application Data\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch


However, with at latest Windows 7, but most probably Vista, things got 
murkier and less understandable.  Until your post, which prompted me to 
experiment here in W7, I *had* thought that it was almost the same as 
XP, that choosing 'Pin to Start Menu" would copy the link into ...

   %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick 
Launch\User Pinned\StartMenu

... and that copying a link there manually would make it appear on the 
Start Menu, but neither of these things appear to be true, at least not 
without logging out and back in, which I can't check at the moment.

 From Windows 8, it's even less understandable.  The Start Menu folders 
above, both System and User, seem to get mixed into the alphabetical 
list in the Start Menus without obeying the original W7 Start Menus 
structure except at the first level of subfolder, any further subfolders 
seem to be completely ignored.  So, for example, if in W7 you created a 
Start Menu subfolder ...

   Programs\System Tools\Dell\<etc>

... then everything in Dell will appear jumbled up with all the other 
subfolders of System Tools in Windows System (its pointless renaming) in 
the Windows 10 alphabetical Start Menu.  Further the algorithm for 'Pin 
to Start' seems to have been altered so that the workarounds described 
in my OP no longer work, and you can only have one link to any given 
program in the Start tiles, which for me is such a serious limitation 
that effectively the whole idea of them becomes nigh on useless.

The whole thing is a reeking, stinking mess which robs the user of the 
ability to customise his computing environment, rather like working for 
a tyrannical boss.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182189

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> I did all that for the original W7 Start Menu that works, but neither of 
> you seem to have noticed that the Start Menu folders, system or user, 
> are largely ignored in Windows 10 (actually IMS it's Windows 8+).  What 
> determines what 'tiles' appear on the RHS of a given user's Start Menu 
> in Windows 10?  I, a Windows user since 3.1 of some 40 years standing, 
> who has created all the Windows builds used in a major UK financial 
> business, have no fucking idea.
> 
> *Logically* and *rationally* (terms that Microsoft programmers don't 
> seem to understand) you'd expect there to be a sub-folder of the user's 
> profile containing the icons that the user has pinned to Start.  Based 
> on Windows 7, I'd expect it to be ...
>   %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick 
> Launch\User Pinned\StartMenu
> ... but, if that was really the case, everything in that folder at the 
> time of upgrading to W10 should automatically appear on a user's Start 
> Menu, but it doesn't; moreover, there doesn't seem to be a folder that 
> contains the bloat crap that does appear on a user's Start Menu, so I 
> think it must now be held in the registry somewhere.

  I think you should concentrate on non-QuickLaunch and non-Pinned
stuff. (I never used (the) Quick Launch (bar?).)

  If Windows 10 works the same as Windows 11 does - and I don't think
anything changed in this respect from 10 to 11 - you'll find that the
folders given by right-click -> 'Open file location' in the native Start
menu, are the same as we all know and love, i.e.

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

and

C:\Users\Frank\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

  As to your stuff (not) getting from 7 to 10 in the expected place: At
least the - sort of - reverse is true: After installing Open-Shell Menu
on my Windows 11 system, its 'Programs' and 'Apps' menus automatically
got populated with all the programs and apps on the system. So
Open-Shell Menu knows how to find the folders which Windows uses and -
after checking some programs - I found that for 'Programs', both the
native Start menu and Open-Shell Menu use the *same* folders. (Which
folders 'Apps' use are mostly a mystery to many (most? all?) of us.)

  HTHs.

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#182182

On 10/02/2025 14:31, Java Jive wrote:
> One of the first things I do in Windows 10 is remove all the Microshit 
> bloat tiles from the Start 'Menu', and drag its right-hand border 
> inwards to leave just the program list.  However, today I thought that I 
> might try to use the Start 'Menu' as originally intended, and put my own 
> stuff there, because using the program list supplied by Windows 10 is 
> just a PITA, a significant problem being:
> 
> :-(  If your original W7 Start Menu had two versions of a program 
> *anywhere* in it  -  as does mine, twice over, because besides the 
> current version of Firefox I have an older version with a different 
> profile for debugging my website, and I have two Thunderbird profiles, 
> one for mail, and the other for news  -  then Windows, even Windows 7, 
> is incapable of distinguishing between the two.
> 
> The two Firefox versions weren't much of a problem in Windows 7, because 
> they are in Start Menu links, and, because the command lines in the 
> links are different because the profile parameter is different, they 
> appear correctly as two different items in the one submenu where they 
> appear together, and I can pin the current version to the Start Menu to 
> have it available at the top level there without W7 getting confused 
> between the two.  Not so in Windows 10+, which insists on offering 
> *only* the legacy debugging version when I start to type F-i-r-e-f-o-x, 
> which frankly seems utterly perverse.  However I could just uninstall 
> the legacy version, so, although immensely irritating because it's just 
> another example of Microshit bug-gery causing unnecessary problems 
> through lack of thought and proper testing, I can probably get around it.
> 
> The two Thunderbird links were more of a problem even in Windows 7, 
> because I wanted them both pinned to the top-level of the Start Menu, 
> and, because they linked to the same program, I could only have one or 
> the other, not both.  I got over this by creating two links to 
> thunderbird.exe called thunderbird_mail.exe and thunderbird_news.exe and 
> putting those in the command line of the Start Menu links, and then 
> pinning both to the Start Menu successfully.  But this ruse no longer 
> works in Windows 10, so when I pin the first, I only get an option to 
> unpin the second, even though it's not pinned.
> 
> I've spent over an hour this morning on my third ranked PC trying to get 
> around this problem before backing up W10 and upgrading it to Windows 
> 11.  Can anyone suggest how I can get the two links onto the Start Menu? 
>   For reference, the two command-lines are ...
> 
>      Target:    <link path>\thunderbird_mail.exe -no-remote -P Mail
>      Start in:  <profile path>\Mail
> 
> ... and ...
> 
>      Target:    <link path>\thunderbird_news.exe -no-remote -P News
>      Start in:  <profile path>\News
> 
> Another problem:  One might have thought I could just select all the 
> links in the top level of my W7 Start Menu, still there in W10 but 
> ignored by it, <rt-click> the selection, and choose 'Pin to Start'?  Not 
> so fast and convenient, it only pins the first in the selection, so 
> really that's yet another bug.
> 
> Another problem:  Digiguide, admittedly quite an old version, but it 
> works in Windows 7, is prevented from running in Windows 10, without any 
> explanation as to why.
> 
> Rant:  This is the sort of exasperating, maddening time-wasting shit 
> that happens every time I try and domesticate Windows 10 or 11, and 
> usually I just give up and revert to 7, which, though it took a long 
> time a while back, I was able in the end to house-train sufficiently to 
> make it ergonomically efficient and thus very usable.  I've never been 
> able to achieve this in Windows 10 or 11.
> 
I don't understand your problem with Thunderbird.

I use one TB installation with two profiles on both Win 10 and 11, 
creating a shortcut for each profile. On Win 11 I just added both 
profiles to the Start Menu, simply right click each profile and select 
the pin option.

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#182183

On 10/02/2025 19:00, MikeS wrote:
Meant to write
>.. simply right click each profile shortcut and select the pin option.

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#182186

On 2025-02-10 19:03, MikeS wrote:
>
> On 10/02/2025 19:00, MikeS wrote:
>>
>> Meant to write
>>
>> .. simply right click each profile shortcut and select the pin option.

Exactly what I was trying to do, but it behaves as described in my OP. 
The only thing that's different from what you describe is that, to get 
it to work in W7, I had to create the two file links (note, file links 
using mklink, not shortcut links) to thunderbird.exe.  Perhaps if in W10 
I replace the file links in the command lines of the two shortcuts with 
thunderbird directly it might work?  Given what happened in Windows 7 it 
would be completely illogical, so maybe that's a sign that it will work! 
  I will try it later and report back.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182202

On 2025-02-10 19:24, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2025-02-10 19:03, MikeS wrote:
>>
>> On 10/02/2025 19:00, MikeS wrote:
>>>
>>> Meant to write
>>>
>>> .. simply right click each profile shortcut and select the pin option.
> 
> Exactly what I was trying to do, but it behaves as described in my OP. 
> The only thing that's different from what you describe is that, to get 
> it to work in W7, I had to create the two file links (note, file links 
> using mklink, not shortcut links) to thunderbird.exe.  Perhaps if in W10 
> I replace the file links in the command lines of the two shortcuts with 
> thunderbird directly it might work?  Given what happened in Windows 7 it 
> would be completely illogical, so maybe that's a sign that it will work! 
>   I will try it later and report back.

Yup!  As illogical as predicted, that worked!  So, to clarify ...

W7:  Use mklink to create file links to thunderbird.exe with different 
names, in my case ...
     thunderbird_mail.exe
     thunderbird_news.exe
... and then in the shortcut 'Target' field replace the part of the 
commandline that is ...
     <path>\thunderbird.exe
... with, using the mail version as an example for both, ...
     <possibly different path>\thunderbird_mail.exe

W10:  Leave alone, or undo the above, as appropriate.

The kindest interpretation is that M$ realised that the W7 situation is 
a bug, and fixed it by the time of W10, but even so, their new method of 
creating these things is a pig's dinner compared with the old:

     -  If you use different icons to distinguish between the two in W7, 
the choices of icon are not respected in W10, so, if in W10 you use 
small icons that don't display the text name, you can't tell which is which.

     -  In W10, you can't expand or contract the Start Menu tile area to 
just nicely contain the number of tiles that you want.  I don't have 
many, so am forced to have a large blank area unnecessarily hiding part 
of the screen.

     -  Although you can drag them about and reorder them, the natural 
ordering of the tiles is across then down, whereas most hardcopy lists 
in real life are down then across.  True, the latter sometimes might be 
slightly more work to program, but why not give your users what they are 
already used to?  This is true also of Explorer views, Control Panel, etc.

Thanks for your post, it has taught me that, despite the above, perhaps 
I can use the Start Menu tiles after all.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#182219

On 11/02/2025 13:25, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2025-02-10 19:24, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 2025-02-10 19:03, MikeS wrote:
>>>
>>> On 10/02/2025 19:00, MikeS wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Meant to write
>>>>
>>>> .. simply right click each profile shortcut and select the pin option.
>>
>> Exactly what I was trying to do, but it behaves as described in my OP. 
>> The only thing that's different from what you describe is that, to get 
>> it to work in W7, I had to create the two file links (note, file links 
>> using mklink, not shortcut links) to thunderbird.exe.  Perhaps if in 
>> W10 I replace the file links in the command lines of the two shortcuts 
>> with thunderbird directly it might work?  Given what happened in 
>> Windows 7 it would be completely illogical, so maybe that's a sign 
>> that it will work!   I will try it later and report back.
> 
> Yup!  As illogical as predicted, that worked!  So, to clarify ...
> 
> W7:  Use mklink to create file links to thunderbird.exe with different 
> names, in my case ...
>      thunderbird_mail.exe
>      thunderbird_news.exe
> ... and then in the shortcut 'Target' field replace the part of the 
> commandline that is ...
>      <path>\thunderbird.exe
> ... with, using the mail version as an example for both, ...
>      <possibly different path>\thunderbird_mail.exe
> 
> W10:  Leave alone, or undo the above, as appropriate.
> 
> The kindest interpretation is that M$ realised that the W7 situation is 
> a bug, and fixed it by the time of W10, but even so, their new method of 
> creating these things is a pig's dinner compared with the old:
> 
>      -  If you use different icons to distinguish between the two in W7, 
> the choices of icon are not respected in W10, so, if in W10 you use 
> small icons that don't display the text name, you can't tell which is 
> which.
> 
Different icons are no problem in my 10 or 11.
Just pick one of the shortcuts, right click, select Properties, click 
Change icon. You can choose from another icon in the .exe or browse to 
an icon of your choice.

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#182231

On 2025-02-12 13:56, MikeS wrote:
> On 11/02/2025 13:25, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 2025-02-10 19:24, Java Jive wrote:
>>> On 2025-02-10 19:03, MikeS wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 10/02/2025 19:00, MikeS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Meant to write
>>>>>
>>>>> .. simply right click each profile shortcut and select the pin option.
>>>
>>> Exactly what I was trying to do, but it behaves as described in my 
>>> OP. The only thing that's different from what you describe is that, 
>>> to get it to work in W7, I had to create the two file links (note, 
>>> file links using mklink, not shortcut links) to thunderbird.exe.  
>>> Perhaps if in W10 I replace the file links in the command lines of 
>>> the two shortcuts with thunderbird directly it might work?  Given 
>>> what happened in Windows 7 it would be completely illogical, so maybe 
>>> that's a sign that it will work!   I will try it later and report back.
>>
>> Yup!  As illogical as predicted, that worked!  So, to clarify ...
>>
>> W7:  Use mklink to create file links to thunderbird.exe with different 
>> names, in my case ...
>>      thunderbird_mail.exe
>>      thunderbird_news.exe
>> ... and then in the shortcut 'Target' field replace the part of the 
>> commandline that is ...
>>      <path>\thunderbird.exe
>> ... with, using the mail version as an example for both, ...
>>      <possibly different path>\thunderbird_mail.exe
>>
>> W10:  Leave alone, or undo the above, as appropriate.
>>
>> The kindest interpretation is that M$ realised that the W7 situation 
>> is a bug, and fixed it by the time of W10, but even so, their new 
>> method of creating these things is a pig's dinner compared with the old:
>>
>>      -  If you use different icons to distinguish between the two in 
>> W7, the choices of icon are not respected in W10, so, if in W10 you 
>> use small icons that don't display the text name, you can't tell which 
>> is which.
>
> Different icons are no problem in my 10 or 11.
> Just pick one of the shortcuts, right click, select Properties, click 
> Change icon. You can choose from another icon in the .exe or browse to 
> an icon of your choice.

That's the W7 method, and is not what I'm complaining about in Win10. 
The original W7 shortcuts, that were pinned to the Start Menu as tiles 
in W10, already have different icons in my user profile's Start Menu 
folder and appear with those icons in the top-level of the W7 Start 
Menu, but in W10 both tiles resulting from pinning have just the 
standard Thunderbird icon, the original icon from the shortcut is 
ignored and not used.  Further, if you <rt-click> the tile, you don't 
get a Properties option whence to change the icon.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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