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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft

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  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 00:20 +0000
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 06:20 +0200
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 23:36 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 15:26 +0000
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 20:06 +0200
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 20:19 +0000
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 23:22 +0200
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 23:56 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ted&Alice <sam.m.tedesco@gmail.com> - 2016-09-20 00:18 +0000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 12:32 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 05:14 +0200
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 14:15 +0000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 10:13 +1000
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 04:03 -0400
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2016-09-22 11:51 -0500
                        Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-22 11:04 -0600
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 14:10 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 17:55 -0700
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-20 17:58 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 01:03 +0000

#2170012 — Re: Atheism is Witchcraft

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:52:07 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>
>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>
>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>
>>
> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.

That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming that 
the bible is false.
 
> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
> historic events.
> 
> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.

Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your supposed 
god is a liar. Which is it?
 
> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.

You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'

> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand,
> attempt to be true, but are often not.

Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its 
spokespeople?
 
> So if someone finds something interesting somewhere remote, than the
> best strategy would be, to research this place independently and with
> more professional means.
> 
> But I would doubt, that the Saudis have great interest in research of
> early Jewish remains in their country.
> 
> Most likely they would try to divert attention from such places and
> would not allow access to them.
> 
> TH

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#2170104

Am 18.09.2016 02:20, schrieb Smiler:

>>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>>
>>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>>
>>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>>
>>>
>> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.
>
> That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming that
> the bible is false.


The bible is made from two books (old and new testament), from which the 
older one is the same as the Thora of the Jews.

But the Newer book was also written and someone has done it.

Christians do not pretend, their book was handed down by God in one 
piece and that it dropped from heaven, but the book was written by people.

What they have written is believed to be true.

Only 'truth' must be interpreted in the meaning, that the authors have 
intended and not as being a literal description of historic events.

The bible use metaphors and symbolic pictures, to transport, what the 
authors regard as valid truth.

So you cannot take the picture itself and compare it with real events. 
You must first identify the ideas behind the metaphors and try to 
understand their meaning, before you can estimate, how valid this 
descriptions are.

>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>> historic events.
>>
>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>
> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your supposed
> god is a liar. Which is it?

Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic 
believes (like Judaism and Islam).

Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.

But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:

think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his 
plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can. 
This is why this garden as grown so much.

The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.

>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>
> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'


Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.

So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.

Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they 
try to express.

But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures, 
which people could eventually understand.

>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand,
>> attempt to be true, but are often not.
>
> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
> spokespeople?

Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not 
include direct contact or interference.


TH

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#2170137

In article <e46ivpFa0kjU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 18.09.2016 02:20, schrieb Smiler:
> 
> >>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
> >>>>
> >>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
> >>>
> >>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
> >>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
> >>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.
> >
> > That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming that
> > the bible is false.
> 
> 
> The bible is made from two books (old and new testament), from which the 
> older one is the same as the Thora of the Jews.
> 
> But the Newer book was also written and someone has done it.
> 
> Christians do not pretend, their book was handed down by God in one 
> piece and that it dropped from heaven, but the book was written by people.
> 
> What they have written is believed to be true.

Only by those who already believe.


> Only 'truth' must be interpreted in the meaning, that the authors have 
> intended and not as being a literal description of historic events.
> 
> The bible use metaphors and symbolic pictures, to transport, what the 
> authors regard as valid truth.
> 
> So you cannot take the picture itself and compare it with real events. 
> You must first identify the ideas behind the metaphors and try to 
> understand their meaning, before you can estimate, how valid this 
> descriptions are.

In other words, every person makes their own personal religion out of 
the bible.


> >> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
> >> historic events.
> >>
> >> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
> >
> > Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your supposed
> > god is a liar. Which is it?
> 
> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic 
> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
> 
> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
> 
> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
> 
> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his 
> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can. 
> This is why this garden as grown so much.
> 
> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.

That would only be a valid analogy is this lonely old gardener 
habitually murders healthy plants for no particular reason beyond a 
temper tantrum.


> >> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
> >
> > You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
> 
> 
> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.
> 
> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.
> 
> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they 
> try to express.
> 
> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures, 
> which people could eventually understand.
> 
> >> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand,
> >> attempt to be true, but are often not.
> >
> > Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
> > spokespeople?
> 
> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not 
> include direct contact or interference.

Prophets are either frauds or insane.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

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#2170288

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 06:20:05 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 18.09.2016 02:20, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>>>
>>>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>>>
>>>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>>>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>>>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be
>>> true.
>>
>> That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming
>> that the bible is false.
> 
> The bible is made from two books (old and new testament), from which the
> older one is the same as the Thora of the Jews.

And the newer one is made up (appropriately) from several other books.
 
> But the Newer book was also written and someone has done it.
> 
> Christians do not pretend, their book was handed down by God in one
> piece and that it dropped from heaven, but the book was written by
> people.

You don't know many Christians, then.
 
> What they have written is believed to be true.

Only by believers.

> Only 'truth' must be interpreted in the meaning, that the authors have
> intended and not as being a literal description of historic events.

So the 'historic events' in the bible never happened. Again, the bible 
lies.
 
> The bible use metaphors and symbolic pictures, to transport, what the
> authors regard as valid truth.

What they regarded as truth isn't necessarily true.
 
> So you cannot take the picture itself and compare it with real events.

Therefore, the picture is worthless.

> You must first identify the ideas behind the metaphors and try to
> understand their meaning, before you can estimate, how valid this
> descriptions are.

AKA "reading between the lines to see what isn't there."
 
>>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>>> historic events.
>>>
>>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>>
>> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your
>> supposed god is a liar. Which is it?
> 
> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic
> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
> 
> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
> 
> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
> 
> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his
> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can.
> This is why this garden as grown so much.
> 
> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.

Who created the gardener?
 
>>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>>
>> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
> 
> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.

Only to the believers. 
 
> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.
> 
> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they
> try to express.
> 
> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures,
> which people could eventually understand.

Yet every person has a different understanding of those pictures. 
Not a clear way to communicate such supposedly important information.
 
>>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other
>>> hand, attempt to be true, but are often not.
>>
>> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
>> spokespeople?
> 
> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
> include direct contact or interference.

I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24 
hours.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2170355

Am 18.09.2016 17:26, schrieb Smiler:

>>>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>>>> historic events.
>>>>
>>>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>>>
>>> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your
>>> supposed god is a liar. Which is it?
>>
>> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic
>> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
>>
>> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
>>
>> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
>>
>> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his
>> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can.
>> This is why this garden as grown so much.
>>
>> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.
>
> Who created the gardener?

I don't know  ;-)

>>>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>>>
>>> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
>>
>> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.
>
> Only to the believers.

The author wants to transport a message to the reader. So he thinks 
about words, which would convince the reader of some idea or concept he 
had in mind.

If you read it and do not believe the concept (or don't see in in the 
first place), the author has not reached what he wanted to achieve.

But eventually he will find someone else, who actually like his scripts.

>> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.
>>
>> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they
>> try to express.
>>
>> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures,
>> which people could eventually understand.
>
> Yet every person has a different understanding of those pictures.
> Not a clear way to communicate such supposedly important information.


Usually they have kind of 'schools', where the adepts learn to interpret 
scripts in the intended ways.

You start with simple ones and once you manage to properly identify the 
intended meaning, you proceed to the next level (and so forth).

If you are then able enough, you had the allowance to read the precious 
scripts themselves.

Now there exist other means than creating pergament from calf-skin and 
to scribble ancient text on it with ink.

Now people want to read something on their iPhone and understand it 
immediately, possibly with the help of Google.translator.

Often this does not work, since it requires training to understand 
something difficult.

>>>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other
>>>> hand, attempt to be true, but are often not.
>>>
>>> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
>>> spokespeople?
>>
>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>> include direct contact or interference.
>
> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
> hours.

Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.

If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will 
certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.

TH

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#2170823

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 20:06:57 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 18.09.2016 17:26, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>>>>> historic events.
>>>>>
>>>>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>>>>
>>>> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your
>>>> supposed god is a liar. Which is it?
>>>
>>> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic
>>> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
>>>
>>> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
>>>
>>> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
>>>
>>> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his
>>> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he
>>> can. This is why this garden as grown so much.
>>>
>>> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.
>>
>> Who created the gardener?
> 
> I don't know  ;-)

Then why should we accept your claim of a clear and coherent picture?
 
>>>>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>>>>
>>>> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
>>>
>>> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.
>>
>> Only to the believers.
> 
> The author wants to transport a message to the reader. So he thinks
> about words, which would convince the reader of some idea or concept he
> had in mind.
> 
> If you read it and do not believe the concept (or don't see in in the
> first place), the author has not reached what he wanted to achieve.
> 
> But eventually he will find someone else, who actually like his scripts.

You refer, of course, to the gullible.

>>> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in
>>> symbols.
>>>
>>> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what
>>> they try to express.
>>>
>>> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used
>>> pictures,
>>> which people could eventually understand.
>>
>> Yet every person has a different understanding of those pictures. Not a
>> clear way to communicate such supposedly important information.
> 
> Usually they have kind of 'schools', where the adepts learn to interpret
> scripts in the intended ways.

How do you know that the teachers have the correct interpretation?
 
> You start with simple ones and once you manage to properly identify the
> intended meaning, you proceed to the next level (and so forth).

It's called indoctrination.
 
> If you are then able enough, you had the allowance to read the precious
> scripts themselves.
> 
> Now there exist other means than creating pergament from calf-skin and
> to scribble ancient text on it with ink.
> 
> Now people want to read something on their iPhone and understand it
> immediately, possibly with the help of Google.translator.
> 
> Often this does not work, since it requires training to understand
> something difficult.

AKA indoctrination.
 
>>>>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other
>>>>> hand, attempt to be true, but are often not.
>>>>
>>>> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
>>>> spokespeople?
>>>
>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>
>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible. I
>> prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>> hours.
> 
> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.

Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be useless.

> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.

Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery numbers?

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2170845

Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:

>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>
>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible. I
>>> prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>> hours.
>>
>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>
> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be useless.
>
>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>
> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery numbers?


The bible does not make predictions, you did.

You wrote:
[Quote]
"..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
  hours."

[\Quote]

You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.

A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not 
do, was predicting the weather.

TH

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#2170903

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>
>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>> hours.
>>>
>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>
>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>> useless.
>>
>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>
>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>> numbers?
>
> The bible does not make predictions, you did.

So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?

> You wrote:
> [Quote]
> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>   hours."
> [\Quote]

Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
Prove me wrong.
 
> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.

Specify the difference.

> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
> do, was predicting the weather.

But they probably predicted many other things.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2170907

Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
>> Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
>> 
>>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>> hours.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>> 
>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>> useless.
>>> 
>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>> 
>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>> numbers?
>> 
>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
> 
> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
> 
>> You wrote:
>> [Quote]
>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>   hours."
>> [\Quote]
> 
> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
> Prove me wrong.
>  
>> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
> 
> Specify the difference.
> 
>> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
>> do, was predicting the weather.
> 
> But they probably predicted many other things.

From what I read, Buddha wasn't even into that kinda shit.

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#2171140

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 00:18:32 +0000, Ted&Alice wrote:

> Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
>>> 
>>>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the
>>>>>> bible. I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within
>>>>>> the next 24 hours.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its
>>>>> usefulness.
>>>> 
>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>>> useless.
>>>> 
>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather
>>>>> forecast.
>>>> 
>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>>> numbers?
>>> 
>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>> 
>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
>> 
>>> You wrote:
>>> [Quote]
>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next
>>> 24
>>>   hours."
>>> [\Quote]
>> 
>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
>> Prove me wrong.
>>  
>>> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
>> 
>> Specify the difference.
>> 
>>> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
>>> do, was predicting the weather.
>> 
>> But they probably predicted many other things.
> 
> From what I read, Buddha wasn't even into that kinda shit.

I'm not that well informed about Buddha, but understand that he was more 
of a teacher than a prophet.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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#2171497

Am 20.09.2016 01:56, schrieb Smiler:

>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>> hours.
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>>
>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>> useless.
>>>
>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>>
>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>> numbers?
>>
>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>
> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
>
>> You wrote:
>> [Quote]
>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>    hours."
>> [\Quote]
>
> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
> Prove me wrong.

Don't want....

A statement like yours is true, because you failed to limit its 
validity. E.g. you have not specified, what 'rain' actually means.

Does it also cover 'marshmallow rain'?

And you have not specified the location and the time.

So you made a valid prediction, which is of no value whatsoever.

The value is higher, if the prediction is more specific.

And very high would be the numbers of the lottery of next week (or 
sports results, political events or similar).

This is so, because foreknowledge would allow successful bets and that 
could be rather profitable.

>> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
>
> Specify the difference.


Predictions is, what scientists do (and fortune tellers). Prophets are 
teachers. And they would never bet, while fortune tellers actually try 
to create foreknowledge to make bets more profitable.

>> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
>> do, was predicting the weather.
>
> But they probably predicted many other things.
>
No. A prophecy requires foreknowledge, while fortune tellers use means 
like tea-leaves, Tarot cards or chicken bones.

TH

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#2171680

On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 05:14:55 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 20.09.2016 01:56, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the
>>>>>> bible. I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within
>>>>>> the next 24 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its
>>>>> usefulness.
>>>>
>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>>> useless.
>>>>
>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather
>>>>> forecast.
>>>>
>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>>> numbers?
>>>
>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>>
>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?

Thanks for admitting you lied.

>>> You wrote:
>>> [Quote]
>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next
>>> 24
>>>    hours."
>>> [\Quote]
>>
>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
>> Prove me wrong.
> 
> Don't want....

Your cowardice is noted.
 
> A statement like yours is true, because you failed to limit its
> validity. E.g. you have not specified, what 'rain' actually means.

Exactly as bible prophesies do.
 
> Does it also cover 'marshmallow rain'?

WTF is that? Is that like the supposed 'manna from heaven' that the 
Israelites ate whilst on their supposed exodus?
 
> And you have not specified the location 

Exactly as bible prophesies do.

> and the time.

Within the next 24 hours isn't specifying a time, in your world?
 
> So you made a valid prediction, which is of no value whatsoever.

Exactly as bible prophesies do.

> The value is higher, if the prediction is more specific.

Indeed. Please point out that sort of specific prediction/prophesy in the 
bible.

> And very high would be the numbers of the lottery of next week (or
> sports results, political events or similar).

No argument there, but nothing like that appears in the bible.
 
> This is so, because foreknowledge would allow successful bets and that
> could be rather profitable.

Indeed.

>>> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
>>
>> Specify the difference.
> 
> Predictions is, what scientists do (and fortune tellers). Prophets are
> teachers. 

So, in your world prophesies (that _is_ what prophets do) aren't 
predictions.

>And they would never bet, while fortune tellers actually try
> to create foreknowledge to make bets more profitable.

You've no idea about fortune tellers or gambling, have you?
 
>>> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
>>> do, was predicting the weather.
>>
>> But they probably predicted many other things.
>>
> No. A prophecy requires foreknowledge,

Like the foreknowledge that it will rain somewhere in the world within the 
following 24 hours?
Thanks for making me a prophet.
And, unlike biblical prophets, my prophesies come true.

> while fortune tellers use means like tea-leaves, Tarot cards or chicken
> bones.

You appear to be using bullshit.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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#2171890

On 21/09/2016 13:14, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 20.09.2016 01:56, schrieb Smiler:
>
>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>>>
>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>>> useless.
>>>>
>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>>>
>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>>> numbers?
>>>
>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>>
>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
>>
>>> You wrote:
>>> [Quote]
>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>    hours."
>>> [\Quote]
>>
>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
>> Prove me wrong.
>
> Don't want....
>
> A statement like yours is true, because you failed to limit its
> validity. E.g. you have not specified, what 'rain' actually means.
>
> Does it also cover 'marshmallow rain'?
>
> And you have not specified the location and the time.
>
> So you made a valid prediction, which is of no value whatsoever.
>
> The value is higher, if the prediction is more specific.

Bravo.

And that is precisely the problem with biblical prophesy.

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#2172017

On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:13:02 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
alt.atheism with message-id <e4gm0hFnbtsU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>On 21/09/2016 13:14, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 20.09.2016 01:56, schrieb Smiler:
>>
>>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>>>> useless.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>>>> numbers?
>>>>
>>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>>>
>>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
>>>
>>>> You wrote:
>>>> [Quote]
>>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>    hours."
>>>> [\Quote]
>>>
>>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
>>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
>>> Prove me wrong.
>>
>> Don't want....
>>
>> A statement like yours is true, because you failed to limit its
>> validity. E.g. you have not specified, what 'rain' actually means.
>>
>> Does it also cover 'marshmallow rain'?
>>
>> And you have not specified the location and the time.
>>
>> So you made a valid prediction, which is of no value whatsoever.
>>
>> The value is higher, if the prediction is more specific.
>
>Bravo.
>
>And that is precisely the problem with biblical prophesy.
>

Which seems to only work in retrospect.

--
Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent.

Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially 
those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor OBastard.

Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government 
guaranteed above average income for every person.

Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification as the only option.

If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly
before you run into me.

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#2172094

On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 04:03:59 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:13:02 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
>alt.atheism with message-id <e4gm0hFnbtsU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>
>>On 21/09/2016 13:14, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 20.09.2016 01:56, schrieb Smiler:
>>>
>>>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>>>>> useless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>>>>> numbers?
>>>>>
>>>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>>>>
>>>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
>>>>
>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>> [Quote]
>>>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>>    hours."
>>>>> [\Quote]
>>>>
>>>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
>>>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
>>>> Prove me wrong.
>>>
>>> Don't want....
>>>
>>> A statement like yours is true, because you failed to limit its
>>> validity. E.g. you have not specified, what 'rain' actually means.
>>>
>>> Does it also cover 'marshmallow rain'?
>>>
>>> And you have not specified the location and the time.
>>>
>>> So you made a valid prediction, which is of no value whatsoever.
>>>
>>> The value is higher, if the prediction is more specific.
>>
>>Bravo.
>>
>>And that is precisely the problem with biblical prophesy.
>>
>
>Which seems to only work in retrospect.

The biblical story is one of faith, not sight.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

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#2172107 — Re: Theism is Witchcraft

In article <pv28ubh1cpb95m040q67ho027uh4qleeep@4ax.com>,
 duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:


> The biblical story is one of faith, not sight.
 
Exactly like the stories of all other religions!

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#2172121

On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 11:51:54 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> in
alt.atheism with message-id
<pv28ubh1cpb95m040q67ho027uh4qleeep@4ax.com> wrote:


>>>
>>>And that is precisely the problem with biblical prophesy.
>>>
>>
>>Which seems to only work in retrospect.
>
>The biblical story is one of faith, not sight.
>

There isn't much reality there either.

--
Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent.

Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially 
those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor OBastard.

Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government 
guaranteed above average income for every person.

Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification as the only option.

If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly
before you run into me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2172225

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 12:52:00 AM UTC+8, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 04:03:59 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 10:13:02 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
> >alt.atheism with message-id <e4gm0hFnbtsU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On 21/09/2016 13:14, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >>> Am 20.09.2016 01:56, schrieb Smiler:
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
> >>>>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
> >>>>>>>> hours.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
> >>>>>> useless.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
> >>>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
> >>>>>> numbers?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
> >>>>
> >>>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
> >>>>
> >>>>> You wrote:
> >>>>> [Quote]
> >>>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
> >>>>>    hours."
> >>>>> [\Quote]
> >>>>
> >>>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
> >>>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
> >>>> Prove me wrong.
> >>>
> >>> Don't want....
> >>>
> >>> A statement like yours is true, because you failed to limit its
> >>> validity. E.g. you have not specified, what 'rain' actually means.
> >>>
> >>> Does it also cover 'marshmallow rain'?
> >>>
> >>> And you have not specified the location and the time.
> >>>
> >>> So you made a valid prediction, which is of no value whatsoever.
> >>>
> >>> The value is higher, if the prediction is more specific.
> >>
> >>Bravo.
> >>
> >>And that is precisely the problem with biblical prophesy.
> >>
> >
> >Which seems to only work in retrospect.
> 
> The biblical story is one of faith, not sight.

And the fact is "faith" is equivalent to "baseless=fake=lie".
> 
> the dukester, American-American
> 
> *****
> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> Pope Paul VI
> *****

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#2171346

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:

>Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
>
>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>
>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible. I
>>>> prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>> hours.
>>>
>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>
>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be useless.
>>
>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>
>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery numbers?
>
>
>The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>
>You wrote:
>[Quote]
>"..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>  hours."
>
>[\Quote]
>
>You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.

Not really.  You did not pay close enough attention to the prophecy of
Mr S.  It will certainly rain _somewhere on the globe_ within the next
24 hours.  You are, of course, at liberty to demonstate that it did
not during the 24 hours following his posting, but I rather suspect
you cannot.

 
-- 
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
         Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean) 
          Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.

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#2171424

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 17:58:00 -0400, Don Martin wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
> 
>>Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
>>
>>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next
>>>>> 24 hours.
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>>
>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>> useless.
>>>
>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather
>>>> forecast.
>>>
>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>> numbers?
>>
>>The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>>
>>You wrote:
>>[Quote]
>>"..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>  hours."
>>[\Quote]
>>
>>You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
> 
> Not really.  You did not pay close enough attention to the prophecy of
> Mr S.  It will certainly rain _somewhere on the globe_ within the next
> 24 hours.  You are, of course, at liberty to demonstrate that it did not
> during the 24 hours following his posting, but I rather suspect you
> cannot.

I used the biblical form of vague and useless prophesy, by not specifying 
where it would rain. I'm fairly sure it rained somewhere in the Amazonian 
_rain_ forest, if not elsewhere, during that 24 hour period.

Typical useless bible prophesy:-
"The meek shall inherit the Earth." When, where and how?

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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