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| Started by | viva padrepio <vivapadrepio@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-27 13:24 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-06-05 19:17 +1000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 64 — 8 participants |
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Air America! viva padrepio <vivapadrepio@aol.com> - 2016-05-27 13:24 -0700
Re: Air America! hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-05-27 19:51 -0700
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-05-27 22:06 -0500
Re: Air America! Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 21:13 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 15:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-06-03 05:16 -0700
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 07:32 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 05:35 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-01 20:30 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 06:38 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-01 20:42 +1000
Re: Air America! hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-06-01 05:51 -0700
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 09:17 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 15:39 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 18:10 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 19:00 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 20:05 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 10:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:39 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 07:23 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 08:40 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 08:44 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 11:05 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 14:55 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 16:44 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 18:04 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:50 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 07:42 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 10:40 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 15:37 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 17:53 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:59 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 03:49 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 20:55 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 03:54 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-04 06:53 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 09:11 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-04 12:38 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 14:31 -0400
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 21:41 +0100
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:56 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:09 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 19:12 +1000
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 10:28 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:55 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:52 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 04:00 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:13 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 20:58 -0500
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 12:25 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:43 -0400
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:41 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 07:20 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 08:42 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 10:36 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:48 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 10:49 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:57 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:44 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 04:02 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:46 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:15 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 19:17 +1000
Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 Next page →
| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 11:56 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <drhf70Fik16U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2119654 |
On 05/06/2016 06:41, John Ritson wrote: > In article <8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com>, Attila > <?@here.now> writes >> >> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >> individuals out of the country. > > Electronic transfers - yes, but then you will encounter what is known as > the 'hawala' system (from the Arabic for transfer). Somebody wanting to > transfer money to a foreign country goes to someone from their own > community who officially operates a cash-based business like a taxi > firm, so they have a valid reason for having lots of cash on the > premises, and visiting the office does not draw attention. They hand > over the money they want to transfer to their granny in Karachi or > wherever. The hawala man tells them how many rupees that will be at > today's rate and calls their counterpart in Karachi who gives them a > code. The customer goes home, rings granny and tells her the code. She > toddles off to the local hawala man, tells him the code and collects the > rupees. > > A Pakistani businessman who needs foreign currency for a foreign trip > but doesn't want the Pakistani tax authorities to know how much money he > has does the same kind of thing but the other way round. > > The overall balance between money going in and money going out sets the > exchange rate, including a slice for the hawala men. > > No cash or electronic transfer crosses any borders. > > Because of low overheads it is probably cheaper for the customer than > Western Union. Probably? Certainly! Not only does this system avoid taxes, it avoids the rapacious grasp of corrupt officialdom. As an added bonus, it is a damnsight faster than the official banking system. Make a bank transfer from the UK to Germany, Australia or the US (for example), and it will take three to five business days. With hawala, it takes as long as two phone calls.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 04:09 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <83n7lb11nf6ablir5847gip31feu04kavo@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2119863 |
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:56:53 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drhf70Fik16U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 05/06/2016 06:41, John Ritson wrote: >> In article <8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com>, Attila >> <?@here.now> writes > > >>> >>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >>> individuals out of the country. >> >> Electronic transfers - yes, but then you will encounter what is known as >> the 'hawala' system (from the Arabic for transfer). Somebody wanting to >> transfer money to a foreign country goes to someone from their own >> community who officially operates a cash-based business like a taxi >> firm, so they have a valid reason for having lots of cash on the >> premises, and visiting the office does not draw attention. They hand >> over the money they want to transfer to their granny in Karachi or >> wherever. The hawala man tells them how many rupees that will be at >> today's rate and calls their counterpart in Karachi who gives them a >> code. The customer goes home, rings granny and tells her the code. She >> toddles off to the local hawala man, tells him the code and collects the >> rupees. >> >> A Pakistani businessman who needs foreign currency for a foreign trip >> but doesn't want the Pakistani tax authorities to know how much money he >> has does the same kind of thing but the other way round. >> >> The overall balance between money going in and money going out sets the >> exchange rate, including a slice for the hawala men. >> >> No cash or electronic transfer crosses any borders. >> >> Because of low overheads it is probably cheaper for the customer than >> Western Union. > >Probably? >Certainly! > >Not only does this system avoid taxes, it avoids the rapacious grasp of >corrupt officialdom. > >As an added bonus, it is a damnsight faster than the official banking >system. Make a bank transfer from the UK to Germany, Australia or the >US (for example), and it will take three to five business days. With >hawala, it takes as long as two phone calls. > I am aware of this system, and it would be a bit cumbersome to be used by a mass of people. It requires an individual to know another individual who is able to deliver funds to a specific person in a specific location upon demand. And who can be trusted with the money. Not nearly as easy as Western Union or using a multi-national bank. I realize not all such transfers could be stopped but they could be made a lot more difficult and expensive. The point is to make working here illegally as difficult as possible, and that includes making sending money somewhere else as difficult as possible. Such transactions would be illegal, of course, and while few could be caught those who were would have the book thrown at them. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 19:12 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dri8nhFn51fU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2119976 |
On 05/06/2016 18:09, Attila wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:56:53 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <drhf70Fik16U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 05/06/2016 06:41, John Ritson wrote: >>> In article <8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com>, Attila >>> <?@here.now> writes >> >> >>>> >>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >>>> individuals out of the country. >>> >>> Electronic transfers - yes, but then you will encounter what is known as >>> the 'hawala' system (from the Arabic for transfer). Somebody wanting to >>> transfer money to a foreign country goes to someone from their own >>> community who officially operates a cash-based business like a taxi >>> firm, so they have a valid reason for having lots of cash on the >>> premises, and visiting the office does not draw attention. They hand >>> over the money they want to transfer to their granny in Karachi or >>> wherever. The hawala man tells them how many rupees that will be at >>> today's rate and calls their counterpart in Karachi who gives them a >>> code. The customer goes home, rings granny and tells her the code. She >>> toddles off to the local hawala man, tells him the code and collects the >>> rupees. >>> >>> A Pakistani businessman who needs foreign currency for a foreign trip >>> but doesn't want the Pakistani tax authorities to know how much money he >>> has does the same kind of thing but the other way round. >>> >>> The overall balance between money going in and money going out sets the >>> exchange rate, including a slice for the hawala men. >>> >>> No cash or electronic transfer crosses any borders. >>> >>> Because of low overheads it is probably cheaper for the customer than >>> Western Union. >> >> Probably? >> Certainly! >> >> Not only does this system avoid taxes, it avoids the rapacious grasp of >> corrupt officialdom. >> >> As an added bonus, it is a damnsight faster than the official banking >> system. Make a bank transfer from the UK to Germany, Australia or the >> US (for example), and it will take three to five business days. With >> hawala, it takes as long as two phone calls. >> > > I am aware of this system, and it would be a bit cumbersome to be used > by a mass of people. It requires an individual to know another > individual who is able to deliver funds to a specific person in a > specific location upon demand. And who can be trusted with the money. It is a system based in trust -- but it works. It is used by the majority of migrant workers from Asia, the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent. If the trust is broken, the whole system would break down in short order. "Due to the secretive nature of hawala, few statistics exist about its use. Using the latest figures available, Interpol, estimated that in 1998, the amount of money in India's hawala system (which is illegal) totaled $680 billion. That amounts to 40% of the country's Gross Domestic Product, but estimates have ranged as high as 50%. In Pakistan, where it is also illegal, hawala has supposedly represented the country's largest source of hard currency, an estimated $5billion per year, though recent estimates have also ranged from $2 billion to $3 billion per year. Individual transactions have reached as high as $10 million." http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1213&context=jil > > Not nearly as easy as Western Union or using a multi-national bank. Western Union charges $22 to transfer $200 from Karachi, Pakistan to New York City. In comparison, a competing hawaladar charges a mere ten dollars. That considerably cuts down on the "ease". And I had already mentioned the ease: hawala only requires a couple of phone calls. Using a hawaladar, you could send money to a friend in Dubai or Delhi in the time it takes to make two phone calls. Try doing that with a multi-national bank. FWIW, I use the international banking system on a regular basis, and let me tell you, it's neither that easy nor that cheap and it is anything but fast. > > I realize not all such transfers could be stopped but they could be > made a lot more difficult and expensive. The point is to make working > here illegally as difficult as possible, and that includes making > sending money somewhere else as difficult as possible. How do you make it more difficult? You would have to implement the wholesale surveillance of all cross-border telephone and internet contacts. You'd have to establish controls on the movement of capital. Neither of which is either desirable, nor really feasible. > > Such transactions would be illegal, of course, and while few could be > caught those who were would have the book thrown at them. That approach has been tried with drugs. Remind me: how well did that work?
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 10:28 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2118030 |
On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: > On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman > <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id > <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: > >> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>>> >>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>> time of need. >>> >>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>> payments. >> >> >> >> >> How about public schools? Children certainly >> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >> benefit", no? >> > > Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by > illegals working for cash. When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully legal. Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes of property tax where the rent money came from. On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity).
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 04:55 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <g7h2lbl2motuiid3bshv530916qld8cug7@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2118458 |
On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: > > >>>>> >>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>> time of need. >>>> >>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>> payments. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>> benefit", no? >>> >> >> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >> illegals working for cash. > >When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >-- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >legal. But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. > >Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >of property tax where the rent money came from. > >On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). > Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to mention the entire drug smuggling situation. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 10:52 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2118671 |
On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>> >>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>> time of need. >>>>> >>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>> payments. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>> benefit", no? >>>> >>> >>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>> illegals working for cash. >> >> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >> legal. > > But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. Just like everyone else. And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property tax, they do pay for schools. > >> >> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >> of property tax where the rent money came from. >> >> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >> > > Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of > money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to > mention the entire drug smuggling situation. So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects US jobs. The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell American goods. All that flows back into the US. What's more, illegals working for low wages increases productivity and profits for US businesses large and small. This increases the national wealth and the tax revenue. It also frees up many expensively educated US citizens to do more productive things themselves -- asking a US citizen to mow lawns or wash cars or pick fruit is a vastly self-indulgent waste of money.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 04:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l925lb5ssdp05qq3j6pghdpcd6fbs233k4@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2119117 |
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:52:11 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: >> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >> alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >> >>> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>>> time of need. >>>>>> >>>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>>> payments. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>>> benefit", no? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>>> illegals working for cash. >>> >>> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >>> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >>> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >>> legal. >> >> But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. > >Just like everyone else. > >And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property >tax, they do pay for schools. And usually cost more in services than they pay in taxes, for those who don't just work for cash. > > >> >>> >>> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >>> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >>> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >>> of property tax where the rent money came from. >>> >>> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >>> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >>> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >>> >> >> Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of >> money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to >> mention the entire drug smuggling situation. > >So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every >month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects >US jobs. Not that many, and those jobs would exist anyway. Would you use the increase in health care employment to justify drug usage? > The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, >increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- >and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell >American goods. All that flows back into the US. None of which matters. > >What's more, illegals working for low wages increases productivity and >profits for US businesses large and small. This increases the national >wealth and the tax revenue. It also frees up many expensively educated >US citizens to do more productive things themselves -- asking a US >citizen to mow lawns or wash cars or pick fruit is a vastly >self-indulgent waste of money. Irrelevant and mostly wrong. Keep them out in any way necessary, find those already here in any way necessary, and deport them upon identification without exception. And no one should have the authority to grant any exceptions for any reason. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 11:54 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <drhf2aFijc4U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2119269 |
On 04/06/2016 18:00, Attila wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:52:11 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: >>> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >>> alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>>>> time of need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>>>> payments. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>>>> benefit", no? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>>>> illegals working for cash. >>>> >>>> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >>>> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >>>> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >>>> legal. >>> >>> But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. >> >> Just like everyone else. >> >> And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property >> tax, they do pay for schools. > > And usually cost more in services than they pay in taxes, for those > who don't just work for cash. How so? Illegals as a rule do not access most government services for fear of being caught and deported. > >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >>>> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >>>> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >>>> of property tax where the rent money came from. >>>> >>>> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >>>> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >>>> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >>>> >>> >>> Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of >>> money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to >>> mention the entire drug smuggling situation. >> >> So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every >> month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects >> US jobs. > > Not that many, and those jobs would exist anyway. Would you use the > increase in health care employment to justify drug usage? Remittances to Mexico alone amounted to 2173.35 USD Million in April alone. The average amount from 1995-2016 was 1359.81 USD Million a month. And that's only official amounts not counting money sent over in cash or in kind. Close that off, and no, the jobs dealing with that sort of money flow would not exist anyway. > > > >> The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, >> increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- >> and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell >> American goods. All that flows back into the US. > > None of which matters. In economic terms, it matters a lot.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 04:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4jn7lbhncorn6rhf8212paqipjpgojhtbp@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2119862 |
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:54:24 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drhf2aFijc4U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 04/06/2016 18:00, Attila wrote: >> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:52:11 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >> alt.atheism with message-id <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >> >>> On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: >>>> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >>>> alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>>>>> time of need. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>>>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>>>>> benefit", no? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>>>>> illegals working for cash. >>>>> >>>>> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >>>>> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >>>>> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >>>>> legal. >>>> >>>> But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. >>> >>> Just like everyone else. >>> >>> And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property >>> tax, they do pay for schools. >> >> And usually cost more in services than they pay in taxes, for those >> who don't just work for cash. > >How so? > >Illegals as a rule do not access most government services for fear of >being caught and deported. You must be kidding. They go on TV and brag about it. And they register for welfare and medical services as soon as possible. >>>>> >>>>> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >>>>> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >>>>> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >>>>> of property tax where the rent money came from. >>>>> >>>>> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >>>>> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >>>>> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >>>>> >>>> >>>> Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of >>>> money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to >>>> mention the entire drug smuggling situation. >>> >>> So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every >>> month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects >>> US jobs. >> >> Not that many, and those jobs would exist anyway. Would you use the >> increase in health care employment to justify drug usage? > >Remittances to Mexico alone amounted to 2173.35 USD Million in April >alone. The average amount from 1995-2016 was 1359.81 USD Million a >month. And that's only official amounts not counting money sent over in >cash or in kind. Close that off, and no, the jobs dealing with that >sort of money flow would not exist anyway. And that much more money would remain within our economy. >> >>> The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, >>> increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- >>> and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell >>> American goods. All that flows back into the US. >> >> None of which matters. > >In economic terms, it matters a lot. > > Not in the long run, and keeping control of our country counts for a lot. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-01 20:58 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2117728 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com: > On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman > <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id > <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: > >>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com: >> >>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>> >>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2 @mid.individual.net> >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com >>in >>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>> >>>> logical. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>>> > transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>>>> >>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>>streets uncleaned. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can >>save >>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 on >>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>> >>>>>>Right. >>>>> >>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>> programs. >>>> >>>> >>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>> >>>> >>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. >> >> >> What do you consider a "handout"? >> >> > Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits". > So people who pay into the social safety net should not be allowed to benefit it?
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 12:25 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dr9jorF12tiU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2117779 |
On 02/06/2016 11:58, Mitchell Holman wrote: > > So people who pay into the social safety > net should not be allowed to benefit it? > Which, incidentally, happens quite a bit. Every illegal who found a legal job using a fake SS number/card will have paid into the system but is unable to access the benefits. This amounts to billions of dollars which are effectively a subsidy of the system...
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 01:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iphvkb1nqn4cp2hb1997l0mm1iojld553d@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2117802 |
On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 12:25:34 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <dr9jorF12tiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 02/06/2016 11:58, Mitchell Holman wrote: > >> >> So people who pay into the social safety >> net should not be allowed to benefit it? >> > >Which, incidentally, happens quite a bit. > >Every illegal who found a legal job using a fake SS number/card will >have paid into the system but is unable to access the benefits. > >This amounts to billions of dollars which are effectively a subsidy of >the system... And they are outnumbered by those who receive payments and benefits without having worked a single day to earn them. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 01:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vkhvkblau261un1tu7n74l7opuk4ibc0ie@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2117779 |
On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:58:28 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com: > >> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." ><ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2 >@mid.individual.net> >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com >>>in >>>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> >wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>> >>>> logical. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>>>> > transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>>>streets uncleaned. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can >>>save >>>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 >on >>>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Right. >>>>>> >>>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>>> programs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. >>> >>> >>> What do you consider a "handout"? >>> >>> >> Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits". >> > > > So people who pay into the social safety >net should not be allowed to benefit it? > Did you miss the unearned part? How did a Medicaid recipient pay into anything? Food stamps? SS other than by working and earning the coverage? All sorts of direct welfare payments? -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 07:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA61B4AD10638Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2117896 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:vkhvkblau261un1tu7n74l7opuk4ibc0ie@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:58:28 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>
>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in
>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W."
>><ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2
>>@mid.individual.net>
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>> >>> hhyapster@gmail.com
>>>>in
>>>>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com>
>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva
>>>>>>>>> >>>> padrepio wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> country!!!
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is
>>>>>>>>> >>>> logical.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying
>>>>>>>>> > the transportation distribution expenses for unskilled
>>>>>>>>> > workers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and
>>>>>>>>streets uncleaned.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social
>>>>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>save
>>>>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending
>>>>>>>>> $500
>>on
>>>>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway
>>>>>>> programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Starting with handouts to corporations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations
>>>>> get.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you consider a "handout"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits".
>>>
>>
>>
>> So people who pay into the social safety
>>net should not be allowed to benefit it?
>>
>
> Did you miss the unearned part? How did a Medicaid recipient pay into
> anything?
Medicaid is by taxes collected from everyone,
same has the National Park budget and your local
fire dept. Should fire depts close because their
service is an "unearned benefit"?
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 08:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j9a0lb9rrv70r9r78lq909tol8pfnjjn9k@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2118017 |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:20:14 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA61B4AD10638Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:vkhvkblau261un1tu7n74l7opuk4ibc0ie@4ax.com: > >> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:58:28 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." >>><ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2 >>>@mid.individual.net> >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), >>>>>>>>>> >>> hhyapster@gmail.com >>>>>in >>>>>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> >>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva >>>>>>>>>> >>>> padrepio wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> country!!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>>>> >>>> logical. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying >>>>>>>>>> > the transportation distribution expenses for unskilled >>>>>>>>>> > workers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>>>>>streets uncleaned. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>save >>>>>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending >>>>>>>>>> $500 >>>on >>>>>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>>>>> programs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations >>>>>> get. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What do you consider a "handout"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits". >>>> >>> >>> >>> So people who pay into the social safety >>>net should not be allowed to benefit it? >>> >> >> Did you miss the unearned part? How did a Medicaid recipient pay into >> anything? > > > Medicaid is by taxes collected from everyone, >same has the National Park budget and your local >fire dept. Should fire depts close because their >service is an "unearned benefit"? > Fire departments provide a public service for everyone and are paid for by taxpayers. Medicaid does not and few Medicaid percipients pay taxes. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 10:36 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dr9dbeF2d4U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2117645 |
On 02/06/2016 08:10, Attila wrote: > On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman > <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id > <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: > >> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >> news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >> >>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>> in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2@mid.individual.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>>> logical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>> transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>> >>>> No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>> streets uncleaned. >>>>> >>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can save >>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 on >>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>> >>>> Right. >>> >>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>> programs. >> >> >> Starting with handouts to corporations. >> >> > Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. Sorry, but that's rubbish. Tax loopholes for corporations are worth trillions.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 01:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <91ivkb19ld9rgehpjgbp4iiq0mehkrvaom@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2117735 |
On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 10:36:00 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <dr9dbeF2d4U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 02/06/2016 08:10, Attila wrote: >> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>> news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>> in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2@mid.individual.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>>>> logical. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>>> transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>>> >>>>> No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>> streets uncleaned. >>>>>> >>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can save >>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 on >>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>> >>>>> Right. >>>> >>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>> programs. >>> >>> >>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>> >>> >> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. > >Sorry, but that's rubbish. >Tax loopholes for corporations are worth trillions. I agree many of them should be eliminated but they must be earned by the companies involved and at least the companies are generating revenue and providing jobs. Welfare payments just disappear and the economy gains nothing. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 10:49 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <drc2fsFgdo3U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2117898 |
On 02/06/2016 15:48, Attila wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 10:36:00 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <dr9dbeF2d4U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 02/06/2016 08:10, Attila wrote: >>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>> >>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>> news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>> in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2@mid.individual.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>>>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>>>>> logical. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>>>> transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>>>> >>>>>> No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>> streets uncleaned. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can save >>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 on >>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Right. >>>>> >>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>> programs. >>>> >>>> >>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>> >>>> >>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. >> >> Sorry, but that's rubbish. >> Tax loopholes for corporations are worth trillions. > > I agree many of them should be eliminated but they must be earned by > the companies involved and at least the companies are generating > revenue and providing jobs. Welfare payments just disappear and the > economy gains nothing. There is a whole sector of the economy that specialises in catering to welfare recipients ... businesses that create jobs and pay taxes. As for payments just disappearing and the economy gaining nothing, that is simply untrue. Money disbursed is being spent, kept in circulation. It may be tax money and it may be spent inefficiently, but it does not disappear. It's actually quite hard to take money out of the economy altogether ....
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 04:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <2gh2lb92t8sehhbbrj51o2uq9cqqkd9kj5@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2118472 |
On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:49:00 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drc2fsFgdo3U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >> I agree many of them should be eliminated but they must be earned by >> the companies involved and at least the companies are generating >> revenue and providing jobs. Welfare payments just disappear and the >> economy gains nothing. > >There is a whole sector of the economy that specialises in catering to >welfare recipients ... businesses that create jobs and pay taxes. There are sectors the cater to anything that has any amount of money, including drugs. That does not justify supporting an illegal activity. > >As for payments just disappearing and the economy gaining nothing, that >is simply untrue. Money disbursed is being spent, kept in circulation. >It may be tax money and it may be spent inefficiently, but it does not >disappear. It's actually quite hard to take money out of the economy >altogether .... Not really. Just send it somewhere else. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 10:44 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dremjoF1u1hU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2118672 |
On 03/06/2016 18:57, Attila wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:49:00 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <drc2fsFgdo3U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >>> I agree many of them should be eliminated but they must be earned by >>> the companies involved and at least the companies are generating >>> revenue and providing jobs. Welfare payments just disappear and the >>> economy gains nothing. >> >> There is a whole sector of the economy that specialises in catering to >> welfare recipients ... businesses that create jobs and pay taxes. > > There are sectors the cater to anything that has any amount of money, > including drugs. That does not justify supporting an illegal > activity. Welfare is illegal? Since when? > >> >> As for payments just disappearing and the economy gaining nothing, that >> is simply untrue. Money disbursed is being spent, kept in circulation. >> It may be tax money and it may be spent inefficiently, but it does not >> disappear. It's actually quite hard to take money out of the economy >> altogether .... > > Not really. Just send it somewhere else. Which does not remove it from the economic cycle.
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