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Groups > alt.atheism > #2119998
| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.atheism |
| Subject | Re: Air America! |
| Date | 2016-06-05 19:12 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dri8nhFn51fU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> <8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com> <l24WoIAI0zUXFwwd@hotmail.co.uk> <drhf70Fik16U1@mid.individual.net> <83n7lb11nf6ablir5847gip31feu04kavo@4ax.com> |
On 05/06/2016 18:09, Attila wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:56:53 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <drhf70Fik16U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 05/06/2016 06:41, John Ritson wrote: >>> In article <8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com>, Attila >>> <?@here.now> writes >> >> >>>> >>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >>>> individuals out of the country. >>> >>> Electronic transfers - yes, but then you will encounter what is known as >>> the 'hawala' system (from the Arabic for transfer). Somebody wanting to >>> transfer money to a foreign country goes to someone from their own >>> community who officially operates a cash-based business like a taxi >>> firm, so they have a valid reason for having lots of cash on the >>> premises, and visiting the office does not draw attention. They hand >>> over the money they want to transfer to their granny in Karachi or >>> wherever. The hawala man tells them how many rupees that will be at >>> today's rate and calls their counterpart in Karachi who gives them a >>> code. The customer goes home, rings granny and tells her the code. She >>> toddles off to the local hawala man, tells him the code and collects the >>> rupees. >>> >>> A Pakistani businessman who needs foreign currency for a foreign trip >>> but doesn't want the Pakistani tax authorities to know how much money he >>> has does the same kind of thing but the other way round. >>> >>> The overall balance between money going in and money going out sets the >>> exchange rate, including a slice for the hawala men. >>> >>> No cash or electronic transfer crosses any borders. >>> >>> Because of low overheads it is probably cheaper for the customer than >>> Western Union. >> >> Probably? >> Certainly! >> >> Not only does this system avoid taxes, it avoids the rapacious grasp of >> corrupt officialdom. >> >> As an added bonus, it is a damnsight faster than the official banking >> system. Make a bank transfer from the UK to Germany, Australia or the >> US (for example), and it will take three to five business days. With >> hawala, it takes as long as two phone calls. >> > > I am aware of this system, and it would be a bit cumbersome to be used > by a mass of people. It requires an individual to know another > individual who is able to deliver funds to a specific person in a > specific location upon demand. And who can be trusted with the money. It is a system based in trust -- but it works. It is used by the majority of migrant workers from Asia, the Middle East and the Indian sub-continent. If the trust is broken, the whole system would break down in short order. "Due to the secretive nature of hawala, few statistics exist about its use. Using the latest figures available, Interpol, estimated that in 1998, the amount of money in India's hawala system (which is illegal) totaled $680 billion. That amounts to 40% of the country's Gross Domestic Product, but estimates have ranged as high as 50%. In Pakistan, where it is also illegal, hawala has supposedly represented the country's largest source of hard currency, an estimated $5billion per year, though recent estimates have also ranged from $2 billion to $3 billion per year. Individual transactions have reached as high as $10 million." http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1213&context=jil > > Not nearly as easy as Western Union or using a multi-national bank. Western Union charges $22 to transfer $200 from Karachi, Pakistan to New York City. In comparison, a competing hawaladar charges a mere ten dollars. That considerably cuts down on the "ease". And I had already mentioned the ease: hawala only requires a couple of phone calls. Using a hawaladar, you could send money to a friend in Dubai or Delhi in the time it takes to make two phone calls. Try doing that with a multi-national bank. FWIW, I use the international banking system on a regular basis, and let me tell you, it's neither that easy nor that cheap and it is anything but fast. > > I realize not all such transfers could be stopped but they could be > made a lot more difficult and expensive. The point is to make working > here illegally as difficult as possible, and that includes making > sending money somewhere else as difficult as possible. How do you make it more difficult? You would have to implement the wholesale surveillance of all cross-border telephone and internet contacts. You'd have to establish controls on the movement of capital. Neither of which is either desirable, nor really feasible. > > Such transactions would be illegal, of course, and while few could be > caught those who were would have the book thrown at them. That approach has been tried with drugs. Remind me: how well did that work?
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Air America! viva padrepio <vivapadrepio@aol.com> - 2016-05-27 13:24 -0700
Re: Air America! hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-05-27 19:51 -0700
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-05-27 22:06 -0500
Re: Air America! Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 21:13 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 15:54 +1000
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:28 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-08 11:35 +1000
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-08 11:23 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-09 09:58 +1000
Re: Air America! Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-06-03 05:16 -0700
Re: Air America! Kurt Kurt <passerby31416@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 19:41 -0700
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:38 -0700
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 07:32 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 05:35 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-01 20:30 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 06:38 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-01 20:42 +1000
Re: Air America! hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-06-01 05:51 -0700
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 09:17 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 15:39 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 18:10 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 19:00 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 20:05 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 10:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:39 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 07:23 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 08:40 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 08:44 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 11:05 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 14:55 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 16:44 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 18:04 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:50 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 07:42 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 10:40 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 15:37 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 17:53 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:59 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 03:49 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 20:55 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 03:54 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-04 06:53 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 09:11 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-04 12:38 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 14:31 -0400
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 21:41 +0100
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:56 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:09 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 19:12 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 10:18 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 10:15 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 02:01 -0400
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:42 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-08 11:38 +1000
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-05 21:28 -0500
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 14:19 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 02:08 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 17:21 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 04:32 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-07 09:44 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 23:08 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-06 08:02 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 14:14 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-06 21:10 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 23:11 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-07 17:13 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-07 18:22 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 10:28 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:55 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:52 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 04:00 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:13 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 20:58 -0500
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 12:25 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:43 -0400
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:23 -0700
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:41 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 07:20 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 08:42 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 10:36 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:48 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 10:49 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:57 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:44 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 04:02 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:46 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:15 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 19:17 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 10:23 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 10:20 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 02:13 -0400
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 10:32 +0100
Re: Air America! Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-06-06 04:00 -0700
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 15:53 +0100
Re: Air America! Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 00:04 -0400
Re: Air America! Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-06-05 23:56 -0500
Re: Air America! Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 01:00 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 15:17 +1000
Re: Air America! Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 01:45 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 17:13 +1000
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