Re: Joy of this, Joy of that

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date	2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
Message-ID	<lrs93jF7n0tU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <12bd40ae-a14e-7772-cb7a-5bf427664dec@example.net> <lrpc0kFnkplU3@mid.individual.net> <1a9e8e48-13eb-8276-cd59-1a31218d1dfb@example.net> <lrrj9aF4og5U1@mid.individual.net> <ceccead2-2c2f-1db7-4d71-e12576e6010b@example.net>

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On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 22:03:06 +0100, D wrote:

>> archaic thee's and thou's.
> 
> Interesting. When the times is right, I think I'll have to see for
> myself!

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1998/1998-h/1998-h.htm

That's the Commmon translation with Foedster-Nietzsche's introduction. 

Amazon has Hollingdale's translation for the staggering sum of $0.29 on 
Kindle. There are quite a few other translations of Zarathustra as well as 
other works that are very inexpensive on Kindle.

A good way to start a fight in a barroom full of Nietzsche scholars is to 
ask which is the best English translation. Kaufmann is the usual answer 
but he disagreed with much of Nietzsche's thought, hated Common, who was 
conveniently dead when Kaufmann did his translation, and didn't think much 
of Zarathustra. Others like Common, followed by Hollingdale. 

The question is if anything more complicated than Schwedenkrimi can really 
be translated. In one of Heidegger's more accessible essays he questions 
if we can adequately translate Greek with the nuances and associations the 
words had in the original.

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Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:13 +0000
  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:27 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:02 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:00 +0100
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:51 -0500
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:31 +0100
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 09:36 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 13:17 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:51 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:11 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:41 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:23 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:40 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:10 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 01:04 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:55 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 08:17 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:12 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:50 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:20 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:33 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:46 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:29 +0100
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:07 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:52 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 01:39 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:59 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:45 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:33 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:13 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:41 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:59 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:32 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:12 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:05 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:56 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:35 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:11 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:09 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:06 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:04 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:13 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:26 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:56 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:58 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:14 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:04 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 23:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 10:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:21 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:20 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:37 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:36 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 03:36 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:10 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:31 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 23:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:20 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:31 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 11:03 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:11 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:08 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:31 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:29 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:13 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:28 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:03 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:40 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 12:11 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-11 12:33 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-12 05:06 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:24 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:37 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:33 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:47 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:00 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:42 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:58 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:12 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 22:49 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:12 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 11:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:21 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:49 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:35 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:12 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 02:41 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:00 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:45 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:09 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:28 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 12:24 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:42 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:07 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:30 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:51 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 11:59 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:39 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:48 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:26 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:48 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:55 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:39 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:26 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:38 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:40 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:44 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:48 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:56 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:31 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:13 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:11 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:49 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:38 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 00:19 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:48 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 03:02 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:41 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:47 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:42 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:36 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:32 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:55 +0000

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