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Re: Joy of this, Joy of that

From D <nospam@example.net>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <73f2019d-9a05-68eb-c3f6-e88a32fd334f@example.net> (permalink)
References (17 earlier) <lrrj9aF4og5U1@mid.individual.net> <ceccead2-2c2f-1db7-4d71-e12576e6010b@example.net> <lrs93jF7n0tU1@mid.individual.net> <698b7064-5f49-d7b5-39e7-c18a513154ef@example.net> <lrurh7Fknh0U1@mid.individual.net>

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On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 11:03:28 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> Haha. Yes, Kaufmann is the name I've seen pop up the most when I checked
>> Nietzsche translations. On the other hand, I am fairly fluent in german
>> when it comes to reading, so maybe I should aim higher and actually read
>> the original? =)
>
> https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/7205/pg7205-images.html
>
> Du grosses Gestirn! Was wäre dein Glück, wenn du nicht Die hättest,
> welchen du leuchtest!
>
> Common has
>
> "Thou great star! What would be thy happiness if thou hadst not those for
> whom thou shinest!"
>
> Kaufmann has
>
> "You great star, what would your happiness be had you not those for whom
> you shine?"

Interesting comparison! It highlight my lack of german skills. My initial 
translation, would be "You great star, what would your happiness be, if 
you did not have those who you shine on". My feeling here is that "for 
whom you shine" implies that the sun exists for the people, but my initial 
translation would be that the people exist for the sun.

Now I'm very curious to read some original and compare it with my 
Gutenberg downloads.

> One criticism of Kaufmann is he rearranges Nietzsche's idiosyncratic
> punctuation. The newer translations mostly follow Kaufmann, some with
> slightly different sentence structure or wording. After all when you're
> doing the 15th translation you need to do something differently.
>
> The real question is what effect was Nietzsche striving for? His father
> was a Lutheran minister so he had plenty of exposure to Luther's bible
> translation. Was he trying to adopt the tone or parody it?

In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have borrowed 
for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one of the best 
writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern analytic 
philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern philosophy texts 
can be bone dry.

> While the archaic language can put people off Common does capture the feel
> of du/sie and behind that the attempt by bible translators to capture the
> original singular/plural pronoun distinctions.

For me that fades into the background eventually. Same with reading the 
Iliad or Odyssey, at first it's a bit annoying, but after a while it 
flows.

> Personally, I'll go for the readable versions. I'd never read the New
> Testament due to the traditional two column layout and the somewhat
> stilted language. Oddly one of the things issued in boot camp was "Good
> News for Modern Man", and I finally got around to reading it. Bible people
> will argue about the dynamic translation but at least I read it. Of course
> there wasn't much else to read besides the green book with its wisdom
> about which side of a Claymore gets pointed to whoever you're trying to
> kill.

Ah, so you were a military man? Somehow I get the image of a Rambo who 
retired to the wildernes!

Or maybe we're in Airwolf territory? Or perhaps A-team? ;)

>
>
>>
>>> The question is if anything more complicated than Schwedenkrimi can
>>> really be translated. In one of Heidegger's more accessible essays he
>>> questions if we can adequately translate Greek with the nuances and
>>> associations the words had in the original.
>>
>> This is very commonly thought and communicated in russian and chinese
>> culture. The conclusion is of course, the russiand and/or chinese
>> culture is so sublime it can never be translated or understood by
>> western barbarians.
>
>

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Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:07 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:52 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 01:39 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:59 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:45 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:33 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:13 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:41 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:59 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:32 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:12 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:05 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:56 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:35 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:11 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:09 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:06 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:04 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:13 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:26 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:56 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:58 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:14 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:04 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 23:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 10:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:21 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:20 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:37 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:16 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:37 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:36 +0100
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 03:36 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:10 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:31 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 23:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:20 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:31 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 11:03 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:11 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:08 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:31 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:29 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:13 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:28 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:03 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:40 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 12:11 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-11 12:33 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-12 05:06 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:24 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:37 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:33 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:47 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:00 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:42 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:58 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:12 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 22:49 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:12 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 11:18 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:21 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:49 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:14 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:35 +0100
  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:18 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:12 +0100
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 02:41 -0500
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:00 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:45 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:32 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:09 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:28 -0500
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 12:24 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:42 +0100
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:07 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:30 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:51 +0100
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 11:59 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:39 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:54 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:48 +0100
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:26 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:48 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:55 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:39 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:26 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:38 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:40 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:44 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:48 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:56 +0100
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:31 -0500
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:13 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:14 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:11 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:49 +0100
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:38 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 00:19 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:48 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 03:02 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:41 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:47 +0100
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:42 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:36 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:32 -0500
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:55 +0000

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